Excessively underpowered 1HZ + poor fuel economy (1 Viewer)

[Leitrum3]

It's been a little while since I've updated, but I've kept mostly busy chipping away at things. I took Dan's advice and decided that I could try to start out with the engine mount I've got and see about getting it repaired. Swung by the cruiser shop and they hooked me up with a nice structurally welded fix.

With that finally taken care of, it was just a matter of bolting on everything else and hoisting it up in the air.

All nice and balanced with 'XX' alignment markers and new paint!

Most amazingly, we somehow managed to get the engine in the air, across the compound slopes where the driveway meets the street and into the engine bay. While it's still a little unknown, my fear is here's about where things start to go south.

I finally got my new valve shims in yesterday (mail from Canada to the US takes forever!) and went out to install them so I could button everything up and get back on the road…And the crank wouldn’t turn. (Insert expletives)

Before I installed it, it turned fine, so the variable here is the transmission. A little research informed me how different installing an engine with a manual versus an automatic really is. Please correct me if I’m wrong about this, but I now understand that the torque converter is installed onto the transmission and then the engine is mounted onto the bell housing, and not the way I did it which was to mount the TC to the engine and then try to align everything as the engine is navigated onto its own mounts. So, I guess what I need to do is pull the two apart and see what the hangup is, hoping it’s not catastrophic to the trans or TC. (Insert more expletives)

I had been hoping I couldn’t get it to turn because the trans was dry because I had the valve body rebuilt under warranty when I first pulled my rig off the road. So I filled it with the majority of the fluid it will need (didn’t top off because the trans cooler isn’t installed yet), but there was no change. Other thoughts? Fingers are crossed but I have a sinking feeling.

Such a simple thing to do right, and so potentially catastrophic to do wrong.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

I don't know the answer, as I am a manual guy. But I know that Michael would know, so I'll ask him to read this and answer.
You can definitely pull the transmission while leaving the engine in, that might be an option.
I doubt anything went catastrophically wrong.
cheers,
Jan

 

[ForealBoreal]

Looking good
I am sure it will get solved easily
Good luck!

 

[dadinabarrel]

Definitely install the torque convertor to the trans and then put the motor/trans together. When the TC goes on you'll feel a nice clunk when it slips home on the splines. Fill the TC up with trans fluid before you fit it. It takes a couple of litres, basically fill it up so it reaches the centre hub when standing on it's side and then rotate it in your hands to get everything inside nicely lubed up (the insides of these things are like black magic)

The end float for the shaft/trans is only 3mm so once bolted up, if it's fitted correctly it will rotate with the trans in neutral, it will be locked up if it's not. Usually. In my experience good luck/ Looks like a nice project

 

[crushers]

auto in "Park"?
2 ways, take it out of park and put in neutral.
if still locked then remove the bolts from the flex plate to the torque converter, do the engine work.

 

[tlcruiserman]

It's been a little while since I've updated, but I've kept mostly busy chipping away at things. I took Dan's advice and decided that I could try to start out with the engine mount I've got and see about getting it repaired. Swung by the cruiser shop and they hooked me up with a nice structurally welded fix.


View attachment 884246


With that finally taken care of, it was just a matter of bolting on everything else and hoisting it up in the air.


View attachment 884251


All nice and balanced with 'XX' alignment markers and new paint!


View attachment 884250


Most amazingly, we somehow managed to get the engine in the air, across the compound slopes where the driveway meets the street and into the engine bay. While it's still a little unknown, my fear is here's about where things start to go south.


View attachment 884252


I finally got my new valve shims in yesterday (mail from Canada to the US takes forever!) and went out to install them so I could button everything up and get back on the road…And the crank wouldn’t turn. (Insert expletives)

Before I installed it, it turned fine, so the variable here is the transmission. A little research informed me how different installing an engine with a manual versus an automatic really is. Please correct me if I’m wrong about this, but I now understand that the torque converter is installed onto the transmission and then the engine is mounted onto the bell housing, and not the way I did it which was to mount the TC to the engine and then try to align everything as the engine is navigated onto its own mounts. So, I guess what I need to do is pull the two apart and see what the hangup is, hoping it’s not catastrophic to the trans or TC. (Insert more expletives)

I had been hoping I couldn’t get it to turn because the trans was dry because I had the valve body rebuilt under warranty when I first pulled my rig off the road. So I filled it with the majority of the fluid it will need (didn’t top off because the trans cooler isn’t installed yet), but there was no change. Other thoughts? Fingers are crossed but I have a sinking feeling.

Such a simple thing to do right, and so potentially catastrophic to do wrong.

Hello, when you go to take the two apart, unbolt the TC from the flex plate first and let the TC go with the transmission, and yes you should install the TC on the transmission, make sure it is put on correctly and that it can turn, then bolt to engine and then line up and bolt TC to flexplate.

Here are a few things that could be causing it to bind up, Is this the correct TC? in end of the TC that bolts to the flexplate there is a hole that it sits in you need to make sure that fits correctly, Also when you install the TC on the transmission you will notice two sets of splines that is because of the Lockup TC, that need to make sure it fits correctly (you might even feel two distinctive clicks when putting in on the transmission, and then of course you should be able to run the TC on the transmission. once you connect the engine you should be able to turn the TC to line up and bolt it to the flexplate as well. As far as putting Tranny fluid in the TC before it is installed, there is no reason or need to do this with the Toyota Transmissions the pump in the tranny will fill the TC no problem.

I hope this helps,

cheers,

Michael

 

[Leitrum3]

Thanks friends for the bounty of responses. I was busy most of the day at a TEDx conference so I haven't had a chance to do much, but the whole of Sunday is devoted to getting back on the road. Here's what I know so far from a little tinkering before the sun went down:

auto in "Park"?
2 ways, take it out of park and put in neutral.
if still locked then remove the bolts from the flex plate to the torque converter, do the engine work.

I tried it in both neutral and putting the T-case in Neutral as well just to be doubly sure. Definitely locked up on the Torque converter.

Hello, when you go to take the two apart, unbolt the TC from the flex plate first and let the TC go with the transmission, and yes you should install the TC on the transmission, make sure it is put on correctly and that it can turn, then bolt to engine and then line up and bolt TC to flexplate.

Here are a few things that could be causing it to bind up, Is this the correct TC? in end of the TC that bolts to the flexplate there is a hole that it sits in you need to make sure that fits correctly, Also when you install the TC on the transmission you will notice two sets of splines that is because of the Lockup TC, that need to make sure it fits correctly (you might even feel two distinctive clicks when putting in on the transmission, and then of course you should be able to run the TC on the transmission. once you connect the engine you should be able to turn the TC to line up and bolt it to the flexplate as well. As far as putting Tranny fluid in the TC before it is installed, there is no reason or need to do this with the Toyota Transmissions the pump in the tranny will fill the TC no problem.

I hope this helps,

cheers,

Michael

Your info here is great and gives me some confidence that things aren't totally fubar, though I could always be surprised!

It's definitely the correct TC since this is the same one that was in there before I pulled the engine (it's even handwritten with "Landcruiser" or "1HD-T" across the front face, can't recall which). Unfortunately I can't unbolt the TC from the flex plate until they are separated since I don't want to force things and risk something breaking. I can't imagine that's a really big deal though - I know it won't fall off the engine at least!

I started getting set up to drop the transmission tonight and have the bell housing unbolted and everything else that needs to be loosened as such. However, I can not for the life of me get the drive shafts to budge. So rather than try to awkwardly lower and separate things, I may just be lifting the engine back in the air some distance tomorrow. Shouldn't be a big deal at this point, not that much is really even plugged in or bolted on since I was waiting to install radiators and such until I got the valves adjusted.

If all goes well, the next thing I'll be posting will be a video of the first startup. Fingers crossed!

 

[Leitrum3]

A hugely long day yesterday, so much that as I tried to post this at the end of the day I fell asleep on the computer! So I did end up disassembling all the work I'd done buttoning things up and not dropping the transmission. After separating the bell housing from the block and hoisting it back in the air, I was able to get the torque converter off and take a look at it. It wasn't clear to me when I separated things what was causing the bind up, but when I reassembled everything once again, I made sure it spun smoothly at every stage.

The one thing that gave me pause was when I was fitting the TC to the tranny input shaft; I definitely got the several clunks as it made it's way completely in, but when I went to bolt the flex plate to the TC, I had to slide it back towards the engine by about 1/4". Is there a little play in how far the shaft will slide into the TC versus what it needs in order to mesh correctly? I guess I'll find out soon enough!

By evening I turned this:

Back into this:

Followed shortly by this:




It was late and I was exhausted so I only did a high idle start up to check for leaks (had a nasty fuel leak at the injector so this is actually the 2nd startup), but we opened some champagne after and celebrated getting this far! No exhaust hooked up obviously, makes it sound really tough and strong. I have to say I'm just thrilled and my thanks goes out to everyone on here that has helped. Hopefully tonight I'll have time to top off the fluids and take it for a spin to start seating the rings. After a lot of scouring of the various methods on break-in, this is a pretty good summary of the procedure I was planning to follow:

for break in, having a turbo on the engine will not harm the break in proceedure as long as the driver isn't an idiot.
the tolerences are already set.
the timing is already set
you used the proper lube when assembling and lots of it
you make sure the oil pressure is strong when you first fire it up (usually seconds)
to break in an engine you want to vary the rpm and turbo or not you don't want to hammer down on a new engine if you want it to last.
rebuild,
use the cheapest crap oil you can find and a decent filter.
fire up, run for 5 min
shut down
change out the oil with some more cheap dino oil
change filter
drive for 1000 km
change oil and filter and fill with good quality oil and filter
drive 2500 km and do the same

then your usual 5K oil changes from then on.

unless the rings are chrome plate edges they usually seat very quickly. some of the chrome rings take for ever to seat, some never seat. i recommend the old fashioned cast rings.

some will agree, some won't ... you do the research and make your own decision.

 

[crushers]

yes, you should be sliding the TC ahead to bolt it up, 1/4" sounds right.

scariest part of any build up for me is the initial fire ... if that goes fine then life is good.
congrats

 

[ForealBoreal]

yeehaw buddy.
That must be a good feeling.
Keep us posted how you like it, your going to love the turbo once its all tuned up.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

Awesome, sounds great!

 

[Leitrum3]

Thanks all, feels pretty good to have it all work out. And yet, there's still so much left to do...

I still haven't taken it out on the road as I've been chasing down electrical demons and I don't want to give any additional reasons to get pulled over beyond how incredibly loud it is without the exhaust hooked up. Electrical is definitely not my forté and is the biggest reason I opted to pay to have the diesel conversion done professionally instead of attempting myself. What's going on now though seems like it would be much simpler so maybe someone (or, @torfab ) can jog my memory on a couple of these things? The main symptom is basically that the turn signal bulbs work, but they don't flash. Hazards work on the lights below the corner lights, just not the upper corner lights. In addition, there's a few unconnected plugs, a problem for any conversion I suppose.

I tried to reconnect everything as it was before, but I can't find the photos I took of the engine bay before I started disassembling. One of my hazy recollections was that there are two main ground cables, one per battery, that are connected to each of the engine mount brackets. I'm sure the passenger side was this way, but I'm fuzzy on the driver's side. Then there's these guys that don't have much reach, maybe 12" from the battery.

The low oil sensor also doesn't have a plug available, but it looks similar to the opposite of the black plug in my hand above.

Then there's a single wire with a plug about 6" from the end that has a ring that would fit a larger bolt, maybe the 12mm head size? Would it go to the glow plug resistor? There's already 2 different sized ground wires routed to that.

And then there's this thing, bolted to the side of the engine just to the right of the oil filter:

What is this thing for??


If I can get these things dialed in, get my turn signals back, and figure out how to lengthen the accelerator cable that is somehow shorter than before and keeps it at a high idle (no idea what's going on with that!), then I can get back on the road...

 

[torfab]

Send me pics of the other plugs, and I can tell you where they go. The plug in your hand is the old ECU relay plug and I don't think it gets used. I don't know about the smaller plug on the left in your hand.

 

[torfab]

I don't know why the lights won't work, are you sure they're plugged in correctly? The only impact that our conversion has is to the main cowl plug, everything gets plugged into that, and the rest of the electrical system remains factory untouched.

There are 3 rings connected on the glow plugs, one for direct connection, one for a resisted connection, and one for the glow lights. They're two different sizes.

 

[gbentink]

Nice work, does your injection pump have a boost compensator? If so I can send you a tuning guide. If not, then dead easy, load in 4th at 2000rpm and set AFRS to 20-21:1 at full throttle.

 

[ozwallaby]

I'll take a file to surfponto's old crank tomorrow and will let you know.

And the answer is??

 

[Leitrum3]

Nice work, does your injection pump have a boost compensator? If so I can send you a tuning guide. If not, then dead easy, load in 4th at 2000rpm and set AFRS to 20-21:1 at full throttle.

I do have one and that would be great, though It may be a while before I'm ready to tune it per the info below.

I spoke with Tor and managed to get a few of the electrical items sorted based on his recollection of the conversion, though I still haven't tracked down what I assume is a bad ground for the corner lights that keeps them from flashing. That's far from my mind right now though, since it appears there are bigger problems to be dealt with. Over the past week I've been driving it quite a bit, staying off the highway and varying the rpms and I've got about 100 miles on it now. At about 80 miles, I finally made it into the exhaust shop and everything hooked back up so now I can hear the engine and not just exhaust noise. And now that I can hear things clearly, it appears I have an issue.

This is a video I took leaving the exhaust shop. There is a slight vibration that feels like something is out of balance or possibly like an injector isn't firing correctly. There's no loss of power though, but that's not saying much since there's still a lot more power than there was before I had the turbo and I'm probably just not used to it. I tried to do a compression test as soon as I got home but unfortunately the kit I have is complete crap and it tester stopped holding pressure after the 2nd cylinder. First two were 620 and 625, respectively, not that it means much with out the rest. At this point I was still hoping it was an injector or fuel issue.





And then over the last 20 miles, running some errands this afternoon, it felt like it was getting worse. So I hopped out as soon as I got home and shot this video. Idle seems smooth, though I can still hear something that doesn't seem quite right. But when I put the camera below the bumper though, WTF is that sound?? Do I have a bad bearing in the bottom end? I had very little metal on the first oil change after maybe 10 minutes of high idle and 20 minutes of driving, though there were a couple flakes of aluminum that were super thin, like 1/10th the thickness of foil. I know none is better, but I'm not going to get all worked up over the little that I found. Still, that's quite a racket for a faulty injector or the like. Anyone have thoughts or advice? What's the best way to check if one of the injectors is the culprit, do I just crack the fuel lines open while it's idling?

At this point I'm done driving until I can source the problem. So frustrated!

 

[ForealBoreal]

I hope you weren't taking it too easy on the thing. You want to get that thing loaded up for the break in and drive it with a bit of umph.
As for the sound I don't know:S Curious to see what others say though.

 

[crushers]

you should have NO debris in the oil other than break in lube.
you plasti gauged the crank during reassembly?
i will listen again in the morning ...
for all the time it will take, drain the oil into a clean bucket.
drop the pan and inspect each of the BEB for any scratches or delaminations

 

[ozwallaby]

As you say, the easiest way to get some idea on the injectors, is to crack the lines at injector when it is idling..... sounds to me you have an out of adjustment rocker arm, also a fairly easy thing to check... that's where I'd start... the easier stuff....

As crushers says... I don't like the idea of debris in the oil either....