Excessively underpowered 1HZ + poor fuel economy
- Thread starter Leitrum3
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- Thread starter
- #222
First off, for those that have followed and/or provided invaluable assistance to this build up until this point, I thank you. I'm down but not out-- I just needed to take a break after so much mental, physical, emotional and financial effort came to a premature, although temporary conclusion. Walking away for a while seemed like the wiser decision than completely throwing in the towel. Truth is, I love cruisers too much and I would've ended up buying another one anyway.
Starting in on this kind of project with a good mechanical aptitude but minor experience is a monumental task, especially when there is no one physically nearby that's willing or interested in providing guidance (other than the kind you have to pay for). Coming back to all of this, I also recently realized that the very nature of build threads like this one are not just so that I can learn from others comments, or that other people in my situation can learn from photos and write-ups I've posted, but also so that they (and I) can learn from my mistakes. And boy have there been a few. To that end, I'll try to pick up where I left off.
I stopped by the machine shop today finally after a few months of letting the cruiser sit out front as a persistent reminder of a job left unfinished. I had brought the rod caps and rod bearings with me since that's as far as I've dug into this thus far. I was pretty amazed at how he was able to reason through what could have happened with a close inspection of the bearings. One of his theories was that the pump was out of time and hammering on the pistons and consequently the bearings eventually caused one of them to fail, making all the others lose pressure. I kind of agree that this is a fair possibility since I'll admit that the secondary timing of the pump was something I assumed to be a tune up procedure and not detrimental. Why would I think that?? Good question.
It's also not very likely that there was some piece of dirt or shrapnel was caught in there from the very beginning. I was meticulous and the idea of dirt inside the engine nearly kept me up nights. Not to say it's impossible, but it's less likely that something internal was the cause.
The current course of action is that I'll be pulling the engine out, draining the fluids and then bringing everything to them whole. It will all need to be cleaned and inspected, and I feel like trusting someone with a couple decades more experience than me is for the best. Unfortunately because I did the build up, there isn't really anything to warranty so another $500 to have them strip it down is the first of what is guaranteed to be a costly learning. What I do know will need to happen at minimum is I'll need one (maybe more) new HD-T connecting rod, all new bearings, new head bolts and a new crank. At minimum. The big part challenge will probably be the crank, at around 1k new. Does anyone have a line on a used, but useable crank? For all I have into this, I'd love to not completely break the bank again since I'm still paying for the first rebuild. Thanks!!
Leit
Starting in on this kind of project with a good mechanical aptitude but minor experience is a monumental task, especially when there is no one physically nearby that's willing or interested in providing guidance (other than the kind you have to pay for). Coming back to all of this, I also recently realized that the very nature of build threads like this one are not just so that I can learn from others comments, or that other people in my situation can learn from photos and write-ups I've posted, but also so that they (and I) can learn from my mistakes. And boy have there been a few. To that end, I'll try to pick up where I left off.
I stopped by the machine shop today finally after a few months of letting the cruiser sit out front as a persistent reminder of a job left unfinished. I had brought the rod caps and rod bearings with me since that's as far as I've dug into this thus far. I was pretty amazed at how he was able to reason through what could have happened with a close inspection of the bearings. One of his theories was that the pump was out of time and hammering on the pistons and consequently the bearings eventually caused one of them to fail, making all the others lose pressure. I kind of agree that this is a fair possibility since I'll admit that the secondary timing of the pump was something I assumed to be a tune up procedure and not detrimental. Why would I think that?? Good question.
It's also not very likely that there was some piece of dirt or shrapnel was caught in there from the very beginning. I was meticulous and the idea of dirt inside the engine nearly kept me up nights. Not to say it's impossible, but it's less likely that something internal was the cause.
The current course of action is that I'll be pulling the engine out, draining the fluids and then bringing everything to them whole. It will all need to be cleaned and inspected, and I feel like trusting someone with a couple decades more experience than me is for the best. Unfortunately because I did the build up, there isn't really anything to warranty so another $500 to have them strip it down is the first of what is guaranteed to be a costly learning. What I do know will need to happen at minimum is I'll need one (maybe more) new HD-T connecting rod, all new bearings, new head bolts and a new crank. At minimum. The big part challenge will probably be the crank, at around 1k new. Does anyone have a line on a used, but useable crank? For all I have into this, I'd love to not completely break the bank again since I'm still paying for the first rebuild. Thanks!!
Leit
Good to see the project up and running,even if its a 2nd attempt.
I guess the machine shop guys reasoning is sound regarding the pump timing being out ,but I would have thought the engine would take a bit more punishment than that and it would have been running so rough it would have alerted you.
- Thread starter
- #224
I agree that there is some logic there, but I also agree that I would've expected it to not have run well from the beginning either. Which is why I viewed the timing as more of a fine tuning... As it was, it ran very strong right away. Hopefully their tear down will be enlightening.
The pump wasnt new so it must have been in service on the engine before it was rebuilt. Was anything changed on the pump before it went back on?
If nothing was changed ,then it would have been hammering the engine before as well?
If nothing was changed ,then it would have been hammering the engine before as well?
- Thread starter
- #226
I had it completely rebuilt. It was in very poor shape before with most internals being rusty, pitted and caked in ild biodiesel from a PO. There should be a photo or two of the old internals a few pages back. I didn't think it was possible to have the pump set up such that it would be very far out with the way that it keys into place with the timing gears and marks when it's installed.
I have to think that if it was that far out it would have been very obvious. Would have clattered like crazy and run rough and had no low end power (if it was too far advanced only way I can see it possibly causing damage).
Refresh my memory did you get a new oil pump? Any missed/stuck pressure release valves? I hate failures like this, with out a smoking gun you just never really know the cause.
...via IH8MUD app
Refresh my memory did you get a new oil pump? Any missed/stuck pressure release valves? I hate failures like this, with out a smoking gun you just never really know the cause.
...via IH8MUD app
Really enjoyed reading this thread, until i saw the state of the crank and bearings 
Probably one of my biggest fears after rebuilding an engine is exactly what happened to you, sorry to hear. looks like a blocked oil gallery either inside the crank or in the block....will be interesting to see the outcome of the tear down
Probably one of my biggest fears after rebuilding an engine is exactly what happened to you, sorry to hear. looks like a blocked oil gallery either inside the crank or in the block....will be interesting to see the outcome of the tear down
I would still "manage" the detective work and the rebuild. the last few pages show that you certainly are capable of this. Yes it was a costly mistake, but don't just "hand over" and pull your wallet out. The really important thing here, is to identify exactly what caused the problem before repair and reassembly. DONT ACCEPT THAT IT WAS A COMBINATION OF THIS AND THAT. One thing caused the problem, it may not jump out and shag your leg, but it's there lurking and must be identified before any big bucks are spent.
Good luck and keep us posted .And if you page back to my last post on this thread, I stand by what I said there.
G
Good luck and keep us posted .And if you page back to my last post on this thread, I stand by what I said there.
G
I hope the machine shop finds an obvious culprit during teardown, I'd be very leary of putting this all back together and trying again without identifying the cause of the failure. Good luck!
I tend to agree. The 1HZ bottom end is pretty tough and bad timing would probably take a while to kill it.
Having messed with the pump timing more than I would like to have, it's pretty obvious when it's not in the right range. Advanced timing to that extent would not be ignorable. It would be tough to start, stumble, clatter like crazy, rattle, shake, it might go good, but not from a stop and not at low RPM.
Keep a close eye on everything, I don't think it was the pump timing.
Keep a close eye on everything, I don't think it was the pump timing.
I concur. No way this was pump timing. For some reason you did not get oil to that bearing, or the bearing was the wrong size, or something major like that. It clearly got very hot.
What is the plan anyway? New crank? Regrind the crank? How bout the groove in that journal?
Good luck,
J
I've thought of this thread from time to time as well, hoping Leit's doing alright and is getting ready to take another run at this thing!
- Thread starter
- #237
Hey friends, sorry for the long sojourn. Progress has been next to nil as of late since I only have room for one major project in my garage at a time... My "luck" continued through the summer when after buying a new toy/daily driver in the form of a '76 BMW 2002, I lost oil pressure again. Fearing an escalation similar to the cruiser, at the first sign of trouble I stopped driving and did a thorough check of things. Possibly original bearings (with significant scoring) in an unbuilt 24x,xxx mile engine, I decided it was probably just it's time. So out that engine came. Remarkably simpler and easier to work on, the only hold up to getting back onto the road and being able to turn my attention back to the cruiser have been some parts I want that were out of stock up until last week. At this point, I'm hoping to have everything back together by the early part of February so I can start digging into the mystery of my 1HZ failure.
No post is complete without at least one photo. My two cars: neither of which work. This has gotta change!
The progress I have been able to make has been all in thanks to JP/ClemsonCruiser. Apparently when you order a new short block from Toyota, that includes a new crank, so he sold me the one he had that he'd originally intended to reuse. I'm hoping that's the largest piece I'll need to replace, though I fully expect to be replacing at least one rod if that's possible to source (still have my old ones that are in good shape just in case). I really won't know until I get into things and have pretty much everything checked for heat warp and scoring from all the metal flying around. Just hoping it's contained to the bottom end or I might have to reconsider my options.
On a related note, I have a new machinist I'm working with now that I like a lot more so that makes me feel better about getting things working again regardless of what we find. Even though he does some extremely high end modern race cars, he also scales down to projects like mine and is actually more reasonable than the previous shop. So there's that going my way at least.
Down but not out, I'll get back to this soon! Cheers,
Leit
geez what a thread.
stumbled on this doing research on my 1HDFT (the main pulley scored my crank and now I need to rebuild the bottom end). Way less work, but I was sucked in by your good documentation and attention to detail.
Any news? If only you could understand how great that engine is going to be with the turbo and fresh pump...
stumbled on this doing research on my 1HDFT (the main pulley scored my crank and now I need to rebuild the bottom end). Way less work, but I was sucked in by your good documentation and attention to detail.
Any news? If only you could understand how great that engine is going to be with the turbo and fresh pump...
- Thread starter
- #240
Yeah...It kind of turned from a simple thread to a journey of epic proportions (at least it feels that way for a novice mechanic)! And no, I haven't given up or anything, but I did spend 6 months waiting on pistons for the above car. And right now, my girlfriend would kill me if I don't finish at least one car soon and currently the Bimmer is the closest. I've been really missing my cruiser though, I think I really like working on it a lot more than the Bimmer. As soon as I'm back on the road, I'm going to start chipping away at the cruiser and see what I'm really into.
And believe me, I know how great it is! I had a hundred-something miles to appreciate it before...well, you know.
And believe me, I know how great it is! I had a hundred-something miles to appreciate it before...well, you know.