Builds Evolution of a Land Cruiser: My 80's build thread (1 Viewer)

[jcardona1]

ABS DELETE

A few months I ago I tossed the factory LSPV and used a manual proportioning valve in its place. Well today I finally went all the way and got rid of ABS. I haven't tried it out yet - still waiting for a helper to bleed the brakes. I really need to get me a power bleeder. But judging from feedback I've heard I'm sure this will be a big improvement in braking power and getting rid of the spongy feeling.

Getting rid of the ABS brain leaves a giant open space in the fender well - so much more room for activities! So I relocated the charcoal canister and used the remaining space to mount my Blue Sea fuse block. Here's a photo of the final layout:

Here's how it looked before:

Started by ordering a brake tee for the Toyota brake lines. I gave away my factory tee to another member, lesson learned! Keep all your spare parts. Reminder, Toyota brake fittings are 10mm x 1.0 inverted flare. Got the tee for $8 from here: http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.php/universal-brake-line-tees.html

The tee is used to tie the two front brakes lines together; left and right.

The Willwood manual proportioning valve from my last project is simply sitting by the booster.

I then took the factory charcoal canister bracket and cut off its rear support leg. I mounted it to two holes leftover from the ABS pump. One on the floor and one up behind the AC lines. Worked great! Two bolts is definitely sturdy enough to hold this thing in place.

With the ABS pump out of the way and the charcoal canister relocated I had more room to finally make a good mount for my Blue Sea fuse block. Used some 3/16" flat bar and fabbed up a mount using existing holes from where the charcoal canister was. The spot was just right for this!

Close-up of my bird turd welding and fabrication. The mount actually has two support legs.

And since folks may ask what needs to be done to delete ABS, here's a write-up I put together in another section. This is how you delete ABS and the LSPV. This is for offroad use only. Not for street-driven vehicles. Do so at your own risk. I am not responsible for property damage or bodily harm inflicted on yourself or others because you chose to modify your braking system. Don't sue me - I'm poor.

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Here's what you do with the ABS lines. Green lines are kept, red lines get deleted. You will use one of the red lines to reconnect the front brakes as noted below:

Here's what happens with the tee underneath the MC and its lines

Then the elbow in your driver's side fender well

And lastly at the rear where the LSPV is/was. Clear as mud?

 

[CruiseOrlando]

I love the ABS delete - but you haven't answered the $10k question - how's it FEEL now?

I was wondering where you came up with all that space under the hood before when I was looking at your fuse block. Now I know ... and you've given me new ideas!

 

[jcardona1]

I love the ABS delete - but you haven't answered the $10k question - how's it FEEL now?

I was wondering where you came up with all that space under the hood before when I was looking at your fuse block. Now I know ... and you've given me new ideas!

Hopefully I get the brakes bled tomorrow then I'll give it a test. Will definitely report back! Yeah before I had the fuse block mounted to the charcoal canister bracket. It worked, but space was tight. I hated how close to the battery box the canister was. Makes doing electrical work a pain. Now it should be a lot easier!

 

[thatcabledude]

Same proportion valve on my truck. After a little "tuning" you will find your sweet spot and set it and forget it.

 

[1973Guppie]

I have to ask as I just don't get it, what is the benefit of removing all of the abs stuff? seems like alot of work to remove a safety feature that is proven to work? not bashing you just honestly curious as to why someone would do this? Is the pedal feel / performance really that much better w/out the abs gear?

 

[CruiseOrlando]

If you put in a PT kit, ABS is going to be mad anytime you're in 2WD.

If you put in a PT kit, most of the time you're probably going to be in 2WD.

At least that's the way I see it

 

[jcardona1]

I have to ask as I just don't get it, what is the benefit of removing all of the abs stuff? seems like alot of work to remove a safety feature that is proven to work? not bashing you just honestly curious as to why someone would do this? Is the pedal feel / performance really that much better w/out the abs gear?

Yeah as CruiseOrlando said, I eventually plan on going with a PT kit so ABS won't work unless I relocate the sensor. But the main reason for doing this now is braking performance. ABS is great when it works. But based on what I hear from folks that have deleted ABS, I"m confident these old ABS units are the cause of all the braking problems in these trucks. My guess is they're starting to fail and/or have air trapped inside which is impossible to get out. Time and again you read stories of people with mushy spongy brakes that not even a dealer can seem to fix. People bleed and bleed and bleed their brakes and still can't fix the problem. And it's not the brake components. These trucks have giant rotors and really good calipers. The brakes shouldn't feel mushy and the pedal shouldn't sink to the floor. My opinion, if ABS was working properly to begin with, you shouldn't experience such a big difference in performance after removing the whole unit. That tells me something was wrong with the system.

 

[SNLC]

My guess is they're starting to fail and/or have air trapped inside which is impossible to get out. .

Perhaps but if this is the case, how did the factory get all the air out when the truck was first built and the reservoir filled with fluid?

I have had some stubborn trucks when it comes to bleeding the brakes and getting all the air out. It is possible though.

My 91 has excellent brakes, no issues at all and the ABS is deleted.

Cheers

 

[jcardona1]

Perhaps but if this is the case, how did the factory get all the air out when the truck was first built and the reservoir filled with fluid?

I have had some stubborn trucks when it comes to bleeding the brakes and getting all the air out. It is possible though.

My 91 has excellent brakes, no issues at all and the ABS is deleted.

Cheers

@Delancy and @jeffro have mentioned some phantom unicorn SST used by Toyota to properly bleed an ABS unit, but not many dealerships know about it. Only real way to know is to install a brand new ABS unit and see if it fixes the problems, but I'm not paying $1,400 to find out. I don't know how many quarts of brake fluid I've gone through bleeding this damn system. Bleeding brakes shouldn't be that hard. At this point I just want to simplify the braking system to make it easy to maintain since this is not a daily driver. It will see maybe 3~4k miles a year, if that.

 

[jcardona1]

Bhicks custom 3D printed badges! These things are cool. It was supposed to be for the grill but my new light bar blocks the whole thing so I just put it on the back bumper. Is it too much??

 

[Dirty Koala]

I think it looks good on the bumper...not too much

Did you have to cut the three little screw hole legs off the back to get it to mount flush to the bumper?, or is this on of the flat back ones?

I just installed my grill emblem and it looks good, I have flat one that will go on my rear bumper or lower tailgate after my truck gets monstaliner.

 

[MoeGasim]

i didnt have ABS to start with and have had no problems braking at all, even with our sand filled roads

 

[SNLC]

I think simplifying it is a good idea. And as you say, it is a weekender.

Cheers

 

[CruiseOrlando]

Here's another hint. I have spongy brakes, and am on a mission to fix them.

When I put my PT kit in and manual hubs, one of the ABS rings is either out of alignment or the ABS sensor is acting up now. Either way, at low speed (think of coming to a stop), the passenger front would lock up. And it wasn't nice about it.

So that tells me the CAPABILITY is there, but something between my foot and the caliper is keeping it from going. The ABS acting up like that tells me what I need to know, I'm just not quite ready to jump off the ABS delete cliff just yet... I'll try a few more things before I take that leap.

 

[jcardona1]

ABS UPDATE

Alright! Got the brakes bled yesterday and gave it a spin. First impressions, MUCH firmer pedal feel. I tend to come to a stop gradually and brake very light most of the time. Now it feels like my foot doesn't have to go down as far to get the same effect. I like that. Also took up to about 45mph and slammed on the brakes a few times. I was able to completely lock up the 35s - yes, I realize that's not what you want and the opposite of what ABS is trying to achieve. But it feels like it comes to a dead stop quicker even with a little bit of tire skid. With the proportioning valve fully open I can feel the rear tires firmly planted into the asphalt. The trucks stops very "flat". No forward nose-dive. I can feel the rear end breaking loose a bit but it's easy to control with both hands on the wheel.

Overall, no regrets yet. The real test would be some extreme braking at high speeds with sharp turns and evasive maneuvers. Not ready to try that yet. That could get scary in lifted truck with big tires, bad caster and a high center of gravity - ABS or not.

So what was the cause of the spongy feel - air in the ABS pump or was it starting to go bad? I have no idea. But for now ABS is out and it's staying out. Also keep in mind my rear rotors and calipers are due to be replaced soon. Rear rotors are in rough shape, could very well be the originals.

 

[CruiseOrlando]

I still get spongy feeling with the ABS fuse pulled, FYI. I don't think you have to go light most of the time, just know the limits of the truck - and, of course, if you allow anyone else to drive, you communicate those limits to them as well

 

[jcardona1]

I still get spongy feeling with the ABS fuse pulled, FYI. I don't think you have to go light most of the time, just know the limits of the truck - and, of course, if you allow anyone else to drive, you communicate those limits to them as well

Yeah I never tried pulling the fuse. Figured if air/bleeding was the issue pulling the fuse won't do anything as fluid still has to travel through the pump even with ABS disengaged. And the light braking - that's just a driving habit of mine. I always coast up to a stop sign or red lights. Means my brake pads last foreverrrrrrrr!

 

[jcardona1]

SWAY BAR DISCONNECTS

In an effort to make the stiff ass front end flex a bit more I decided to fab up some sway bar disconnects. Credit to Phil because I kinda stole his idea And MaddBaggins for his idea on the tab welded to the frame. Probably spent about $7 in metal and hardware. Not bad! Made some simple tabs welded to the frame to hold the sway bar when it's disconnected. Bird turd welds FTW!

Disconnect on the driver's side, 3/8" diameter

Clearance is tight on the passenger side because of the e-locker and brake line bracket. Used a shorter 3/8" diameter clevis pin attached to the sway bar with some steel cable like in Phil's design.

Since ABS is history I also removed the sensors and the wiring harness. Nice to have all those stupid wires out of the way. Used leftover scraps of metal to plug up the hole. Used some gray gasket sealant around the hole to keep the elements out of the knuckle.

Results? MEH. Wasn't that impressed. I didn't take any official measurements before and after but I really didn't notice any difference in the way the truck flexes up front. The rigid radius arms don't let the axle go anywhere. That thing stays parallel to the body at all times. Perhaps if I had a forklift to measure wheel lift before and after, but using this poor man's ramp I found locally I did NOT see any difference at all.

This is with the sway bar connected. You can see the axle is parallel to the body with no flex whatsoever. These things are STIFF.

Had the camera set on a tripod so I could get accurate before & after pictures. I didn't even post it because it looks EXACTLY THE SAME! You'd swear I took two photos back to back. So I repositioned the truck on the ramp and drove it up until I ran out of room. Didn't even get the chance to have the rear tire come off the ground. I'll need to find a better place to test.

All 4 tires still on the ground

Tire was rubbing the fender at this point

So to summarize, the sway bar does very little to limit articulation of the front axle - in my experience.

 

[jcardona1]

DITCH LIGHT BRACKETS

Copy/paste from the main thread here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/an...eation-80-series-ditch-light-brackets.804893/

First up, gotta give it to @SoCalFrank for showing the 80-series market some much needed love! For those following the discussion HERE, I was looking to get some ditch light brackets like those made by CBI for other Toyotas. But they won't make anything for Land Cruisers. So I reached out to Frank to see what he thought. And sure enough delivered with an awesome mount that I think a lot of people will like.

Before I get into the details I'll let Frank comment on pricing, ordering and availability. I imagine he'll do production runs just like his antenna mounts.

The brackets sandwich between your mirror base. Installation is simple, just remove the mirror, install the bracket and put it all back together. This thing is SOLID!

For wiring, the cable goes back into the door following your mirror's wiring. After that you're on your own. I just dropped the wiring into the door panel. I'll figure that out later.

My main concern was how they'd fit with the snorkel. But they fit great! Just keep in mind if you have a snorkel you can't aim the light straight ahead. It has to be angled off to the sides - kinda the point with a ditch light bracket anyways. I have plenty of light in front of the truck with the 30" light bar.

The brackets give you plenty of adjustability on where to put the light. On the snorkel side I went as far inward as I could without hitting the snorkel.

That position gave me just enough clearance with the door open.

With a snorkel, the light will stick out just a bit past the mirror when it's folded in.

One thing to keep in mind, with these brackets you CANNOT fold your mirror forward anymore. This is about as far forward as you could go.

On the driver's side (or for folks without snorkels) you can put the light wherever you want, no clearance issues whatsoever.

And the light will be flush with the mirror when it's folded

Thanks again Frank - don't know where us 80 guys would be without you

 

[1973Guppie]

I think where you might see the difference is in DROOP, not compression. Also, I think the swaybar discos will help prevent failure of the swaybar mounts.