Builds Euro 1HD-FT Turbo Diesel/H151F 5 Speed Manual LHD 96' USA Swap (1 Viewer)

[Rock40]

One last rant...the Ford remote starter solenoid has failed already. I'm not kidding. It cranked once and is now fried. It was manufactured by our friends south of the border so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'm done buying crap made in Mexico as an Optima BlueTop battery I purchased just failed after 1 year also. Anybody have a good source for a USA or European made solenoid? By the way, I bypassed the solenoid and the engine cranks like crazy so there's nothing wrong with my wiring.

 

[tweeek]

I wonder how much draw there actually is on that wire, is the solonoid necessary? The 1fz doesnt use one, the starter is smaller, but not sure how much difference there is in draw.

 

[Rock40]

I don't know honestly. When I bypassed the dumb thing the diesel sounds like it's cranking as fast as my 22RE 4 cylinder. FAST, it's probably totally unnecessary. And this is with a 12 volt starter mind you...

 

[tweeek]

For what its worth, the HDJ81 does have one as part of its 24v system. I suppose if you need a good quality one you could always send more $$ to UAE.

 

[elkaholic]

Try McMaster Carr. They have 12V and 24V solenoids and list the amperage ratings on them. Fairly reasonably priced for the duty cycles they rate them at.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

You don't need the ford starter relay. It's just another thing to fail. Cut it out of the circuit. Invest in good battery cables and engine grounds as well as a couple of DC Main fuses instead.

 

[warezdog]

You don't need the ford starter relay. It's just another thing to fail. Cut it out of the circuit. Invest in good battery cables and engine grounds as well as a couple of DC Main fuses instead.

What he just said x100 a mega fuse and holder is cheap insurance and scrap welding cable on ebay is peanuts as well. I think I bought used ford 250A mega's for like $2 each and 22' of 1g for like $15 shipped, I think I spent more money on the fuse holders and the soldering lugs from Delcity than I did on cable and fuses.

 

[mcguirejohnson]

Ya toss that thing. I'm pretty sure our diesels draw the same amount of volts at start (upper 10s) And I've been fine with a single Napa Premium battery.

 

[tweeek]

Put an amp meter in series with the trigger wire and have someone turn the key. That will end the mystery of how much draw.

 

[Rock40]

Thanks Gents, this is the kind of input I was looking for. I'm going to steer away from using one as I agree it's one more thing to fail. The only reason it came about in the first place was some doubt about the electrical draw using a 12 volt conversion starter. Keeping things simple is right up my alley anyway.

For reference, Cole Hersee has a ton of USA made options for solenoids and McMaster Carr has several that would work too.

 

[tweeek]

I still think it's a good idea to meter it first before writing it off. Compare your draw to the gauge of wire and rough distance to be sure. You probably have a little wiggle room since draw is momentary and not continuous.

 

[Rock40]

Yeah Tweeek, I agree with you. Next time I can coax my electrical engineering buddy over here I'll meter it out.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm not sure how much amperage the solenoid draws exactly, but it is not a high amperage connection. The factory wire to the starter solenoid is somewhere between 14 and 18 gauge AWG. The large starter lug is what carries the starting amperage once the solenoid has closed.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

I am partially guilty of this discussion.
What we found is that in 1HZ and 1HDT/HDFT 80 series swaps the starter is not reliable when driven from the gasser relay. It will work ~3 times, and then not-very annoying. Putting in a relay, triggered by the gasser wire, always solved the problem. Maybe this observation/solution is misguided and we misdiagnosed the problem in the first place. I'd really like to know now.
However, the wire that goes to the starter in the diesel trucks is much thicker than the one in the gasser trucks, suggesting different draw.

 

[70sguy]

You NEED a starter relay, the solenoid in the diesel starter draws too much to run through the gasser ignition harness. I'm parting out 5 HDJ81s, got lots of misc stuff. Got starter relays, they are 12v even though starter motor is 24v. I've got HDJ81 5spd rads, dual battery trays, washer reservoirs, Toyota EWDs and a pile of other misc swap related stuff. Just north of you

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I think we're getting two different circuits confused here.

1. Starter solenoid circuit. Energizes the solenoid so it closes. Low amperage circuit. You can put a regular 4 pin relay in that is switched off the factory harness, but it is still low amperage.

2. Starter motor circuit. Powers the starter motor and actually turns the motor over. This is high amperage and is best to run directly from the battery (with a large DC Main fuse if desired).

The ford starter solenoid switches the starter motor circuit and carries full amperage to the starter. No bueno. Not necessary. You can choose to put a 10a relay on the starter solenoid circuit if you wish, but it's not always necessary depending on the condition of your harness.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

I think we're getting two different circuits confused here.

1. Starter solenoid circuit. Energizes the solenoid so it closes. Low amperage circuit. You can put a regular 4 pin relay in that is switched off the factory harness, but it is still low amperage.

2. Starter motor circuit. Powers the starter motor and actually turns the motor over. This is high amperage and is best to run directly from the battery (with a large DC Main fuse if desired).

The ford starter solenoid switches the starter motor circuit and carries full amperage to the starter. No bueno. Not necessary. You can choose to put a 10a relay on the starter solenoid circuit if you wish, but it's not always necessary depending on the condition of your harness.

I still don't understand.
All these starters have a thick wire directly from the battery to the starter anyway, 2 or 4 Gauge. I assume that powers the starter motor and turns it over.
However, the solenoid circuit is still not reliable hen using a gasser stock circuit. Sometimes (regularly) you will turn the key and nothing happens, suggesting that the solenoid in the starter does not close.
Also, if it is such a low amp circuit, why are the wires so thick? Even on the a 2H starter, the wire that powers the solenoid in the starter (from the relay) is quite thick.
I am not trying to be controversial, I am trying to understand.
Thanks,
Jan

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I still don't understand.
All these starters have a thick wire directly from the battery to the starter anyway, 2 or 4 Gauge. I assume that powers the starter motor and turns it over.
However, the solenoid circuit is still not reliable hen using a gasser stock circuit. Sometimes (regularly) you will turn the key and nothing happens, suggesting that the solenoid in the starter does not close.
Also, if it is such a low amp circuit, why are the wires so thick? Even on the a 2H starter, the wire that powers the solenoid in the starter (from the relay) is quite thick.
I am not trying to be controversial, I am trying to understand.
Thanks,
Jan

Totally! You're mixing them up and it might be my fault.

What I referred to as the "starter solenoid wire" might be more correctly referred to as the solenoid signal wire. Like I said, it just tells the solenoid to close. The starter motor wire connects to the solenoid as well but conducts the main power for the starter motor. The solenoid signal wire is low amperage, like I said. For my conversion, and a 2H conversion on a different truck, we connected the original harness starter solenoid wire directly to the new engine's starter solenoid signal wire. No problems. The main lug on the starter goes to the battery in both circumstances.

For example, this is a toyota starter. I don't know which one specifically but it doesn't matter. That big copper terminal on the side is the main power connection to the starter motor. This is the full current that is used by the starter motor to turn the motor over. The small spade on the bottom is the solenoid signal wire. It is low current and only closes the solenoid.

Does this clear it up?

This is how the ford relay is wired up:

This is what I'm talking about for the low amperage connection, connection from the harness, through the ignition switch, to the starter solenoid signal wire:

This is the modified version of what I'm talking about if your starter solenoid is sensitive to low amperage connections. My starter is not, but Toyota 1HZ/1HD starters may be:

 

[Rock40]

Lots of good information here, I agree with the above; the solenoid signal wire should be fairly low amperage. After all, it's flowing through the ignition switch and it's only job is to close the solenoid contacts on the starter.

I know for a fact the solenoid signal wire (factory diesel harness) is 10 gauge max and I think the gasser harness is 12 gauge. They're very close.

I'll check the amperage going through the whole circuit shortly and re-post. For now, the engine/body/frame are very well grounded and the engine cranks like crazy hooked up to the Odyssey battery.

 

[70sguy]

I think we're getting two different circuits confused here.

1. Starter solenoid circuit. Energizes the solenoid so it closes. Low amperage circuit. You can put a regular 4 pin relay in that is switched off the factory harness, but it is still low amperage.

2. Starter motor circuit. Powers the starter motor and actually turns the motor over. This is high amperage and is best to run directly from the battery (with a large DC Main fuse if desired).

The ford starter solenoid switches the starter motor circuit and carries full amperage to the starter. No bueno. Not necessary. You can choose to put a 10a relay on the starter solenoid circuit if you wish, but it's not always necessary depending on the condition of your harness.

I'm not confused. It goes without saying that the main power lead goes from the Battery terminal to starter, no relay in the mix.
I'm talking about what you are calling "1. Starter Solenoid circuit" The diesel starter Bendix takes more amperage than the Gasser harness will provide reliably through the the interior ignition circuit. So this is where guys run into problems post swap.. a few months down the road, when the wife is driving it of course. Do it right the first time and wire in a Toyota starter relay, just like Toyota did on every diesel Cruiser and save yourself the aggravation of having to redo it properly later.