Doug Demuros thoughts on killing the LC. (1 Viewer)

[Mdog97]

Having come back to an LC after a +/- 13 detour into Mercedes GLS-land, my $0.02 is that the LC is really an odd duck for Toyota given their positioning here in the US. I had a terrible experience getting my current (2018 CPO) LC, and my experience back in 2008 wasn't much better. The shopping / purchase / service experience at Toyota in the US is a complete mismatch with a $90k MSRP flagship SUV like the LC. If you're spending this much on a GLS450 or 580 at Mercedes, you expect a certain type of experience...you ain't gettin' that experience from friendly Bob and sales manager Ed who's punching out RAV4s, Highlanders and Corollas all day long at Toyota.

I really like the GLS's, and was very comfortable leasing them...to avoid the longer-term problems due to electronics, telematics and mechanical comforts (power seats, air suspension, etc.) going bad. (As my old race mechanic (a Porsche/Audi master mechanic) says, these newer German luxury cars and SUVs have a switch inside them that trips at about 50k miles, causing everything to start going wrong.) I would have just flipped our last 550 and leased a new 450 or 580, but I couldn't stomach the new M-B pricing +30-40% for what is essentially the same vehicle with a larger display screen and slightly different sheet metal. So, I'm back to LC and back to owning rather than leasing.

As for loaners, I think Mercedes and BMW mandate that their dealers use only home-brand product in the loaner fleet. I typically would get a C class sedan while my GLS was in for service, even only for a few hours, but I could and did sometimes ask for something larger. I think only once have I been given something else, and that was at Prestige MB in NJ back in ~2010 or 2011 for a 1 week collision repair that ended up taking 3 weeks (I got an MB GLE after the first week). Yes, they want you to bring it back with as much gas as it left with...no, no no-smoking stickers. Oh, and the historical cafe bar with fresh pastries, ice cream for the kids, espresso, etc. is gone from my closest MB dealer ("pandemic"). Well, the bar is still there, but there's just mini bottles of water...no sugary snacks. If you really miss it Porsche still have it, as does my home BMW store (they even have a tattooed, sullen barista).

I am not surprised that Toyota is going to end the LC in the US (at least for now). As suggested above by @slowride and hinted at by others, Toyota would be smart to bring the FJ300 over through the Lexus dealership network (maybe only to a subset of the network, a la Maybach / MSport) in a "rugged" or "adventure" trim, with less Lexus bling (LC front fascia / exterior trim, chrome down/delete), so as to capture the 3000 or so natural LC buyers who were buying them historically each year.

 

[TeCKis300]

Having come back to an LC after a +/- 13 detour into Mercedes GLS-land, my $0.02 is that the LC is really an odd duck for Toyota given their positioning here in the US. I had a terrible experience getting my current (2018 CPO) LC, and my experience back in 2008 wasn't much better. The shopping / purchase / service experience at Toyota in the US is a complete mismatch with a $90k MSRP flagship SUV like the LC. If you're spending this much on a GLS450 or 580 at Mercedes, you expect a certain type of experience...you ain't gettin' that experience from friendly Bob and sales manager Ed who's punching out RAV4s, Highlanders and Corollas all day long at Toyota.

I really like the GLS's, and was very comfortable leasing them...to avoid the longer-term problems due to electronics, telematics and mechanical comforts (power seats, air suspension, etc.) going bad. (As my old race mechanic (a Porsche/Audi master mechanic) says, these newer German luxury cars and SUVs have a switch inside them that trips at about 50k miles, causing everything to start going wrong.) I would have just flipped our last 550 and leased a new 450 or 580, but I couldn't stomach the new M-B pricing +30-40% for what is essentially the same vehicle with a larger display screen and slightly different sheet metal. So, I'm back to LC and back to owning rather than leasing.

As for loaners, I think Mercedes and BMW mandate that their dealers use only home-brand product in the loaner fleet. I typically would get a C class sedan while my GLS was in for service, even only for a few hours, but I could and did sometimes ask for something larger. I think only once have I been given something else, and that was at Prestige MB in NJ back in ~2010 or 2011 for a 1 week collision repair that ended up taking 3 weeks (I got an MB GLE after the first week). Yes, they want you to bring it back with as much gas as it left with...no, no no-smoking stickers. Oh, and the historical cafe bar with fresh pastries, ice cream for the kids, espresso, etc. is gone from my closest MB dealer ("pandemic"). Well, the bar is still there, but there's just mini bottles of water...no sugary snacks. If you really miss it Porsche still have it, as does my home BMW store (they even have a tattooed, sullen barista).

I am not surprised that Toyota is going to end the LC in the US (at least for now). As suggested above by @slowride and hinted at by others, Toyota would be smart to bring the FJ300 over through the Lexus dealership network (maybe only to a subset of the network, a la Maybach / MSport) in a "rugged" or "adventure" trim, with less Lexus bling (LC front fascia / exterior trim, chrome down/delete), so as to capture the 3000 or so natural LC buyers who were buying them historically each year.

It's always subjective, but curious if you considered the LX?

While I don't mind being pampered by higher end marque dealerships like Porsche and Lexus, to your point, it is notably a huge gap to the level of service I get from Toyota. At the same time, I'm not high maintenance enough to avoid Toyotas.

Better yet for me, is to avoid them all. At the moment, I'm enjoying Tesla's service model - needs oh so little maintenance, and they can often come out to you. It irks me just a bit when I get the change oil service light on my gassers, even though I do enjoy getting my hands dirty now and then.

 

[ElJayBird]

Having come back to an LC after a +/- 13 detour into Mercedes GLS-land, my $0.02 is that the LC is really an odd duck for Toyota given their positioning here in the US. I had a terrible experience getting my current (2018 CPO) LC, and my experience back in 2008 wasn't much better. The shopping / purchase / service experience at Toyota in the US is a complete mismatch with a $90k MSRP flagship SUV like the LC. If you're spending this much on a GLS450 or 580 at Mercedes, you expect a certain type of experience...you ain't gettin' that experience from friendly Bob and sales manager Ed who's punching out RAV4s, Highlanders and Corollas all day long at Toyota.

Agree 100% - Toyota service generally sucks relative to the MB/Lexus service I've been used to. I posted about this recently as well. I called Lexus to see if they'd service my LC and the lady basically laughed at me before hanging up the phone saying, 'sure, we'll do an oil change but you should take your TOYOTA to TOYOTA'.

LC is definitely a weird niche and the vast majority of people have no idea what they are - just another Toyota SUV to most people. But that's also what I love about the LC relative to the LX. The LX is way too much bling for me and just screams "LOOK AT ME! I'M RICH!!'. I love the LC for it's understated styling and capability. Oh well....we had a good run, boys! Good things these trucks will last us another 20 years or so.

 

[Mdog97]

Although I knew that it was basically the same core vehicle, @TeCKis300 I did not consider the LX this time, or really ever before, at least not with any seriousness. The last LX I looked at was probably >4 years ago, while we were considering what to do at the end of a previous GLS lease. It was impressive and tech-y on the showroom floor, but far too flashy / chrome-y for our family. I didn't know that it had air suspension instead of KDSS, but I don't think that would have mattered. (Airmatic was/is a must for us on MB SUVs.) The RX450 we did test drive was just too small, but we didn't want something as big as another LC/LX at the time...so we leased another GLS.

To your point @ElJayBird about the LC being a weird niche, it's my sense that they're definitely a bit under the radar, but they are something of an underground sensation. I've had several people stop and talk to me about the LC since I've gotten it, and even several of my non-car guy friends seem to know what it is and what it can do. Those in the know, seem to know....

If the Sequoia wasn't so darned tall and long and...well...HUGE, we might have gone that way instead, as 98% of our off-roading is mild oversand on Cape Cod. But my wife just didn't want something that big...and she had very fond memories of the cool box. I wanted a GLE450 MB (with third row option) for our next big family mover vehicle, or maybe another GLS, but MB 2020-2021 pricing sent me away. I guess we'll see what happens with the LC300 and it's Lexus sister here in the US in the coming months.

 

[Madtiger]

DeMuro sold the LC...3 dead alternators died.

 

[ElJayBird]

DeMuro sold the LC...3 dead alternators died.

Genuinely interested in what this guy has to say but listening to him speak and watching him is about as enjoyable as punching myself in the face repeatedly. My god that dude just annoys the piss out of me.

 

[32cls6speedmt]

It is on sale on cars and bids. Under carriage is pretty rusty from a southerner’s perspective. Some will think it is just surface rust. The 13k that was spent on preventative maintenance is just radiator, water pump, transmission fluid exchange, brake fluid, power steering, differential fluids, transfer case fluid, starter, alternator, wheel bearings, and brakes. Brake pads used are the Toyota economy line. The dealership charged an insane amount. The didn’t combine some of the labor hours for radiator and water pump.

2013 Toyota Land Cruiser - Doug DeMuro's 200-Series Land Cruiser, 4WD, Major Recent Servicing

This 2013 Toyota Land Cruiser is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends March 25 2024.

carsandbids.com

 

[kcjaz]

He stored it outside (no garage), in a coastal environment (800’ from the ocean) for 37 weeks a year. Hope his replacement for that service is Uber.

 

[YotaWagon]

My favorite part was when he said the tires are pretty old and you should replace them soon since he doesn't know the date code... while sitting right next to the vehicle. Uh, look at the date code? Is it that hard to stick your head under there and look at the other side of the tire where the code is? I guess when you spend $13k on that "preventative" maintenance, we can't expect much from you.

 

[Supra Turbo]

I don't understand the logic to spend $13,000 on items that were not broken as preventative maintenance, while leaving the alternator/drain issue unresolved. Though looking at the underbody photos, that might be less of concern for next owner....

 

[04UZJ100]

My favorite part was when he said the tires are pretty old and you should replace them soon since he doesn't know the date code... while sitting right next to the vehicle. Uh, look at the date code? Is it that hard to stick your head under there and look at the other side of the tire where the code is? I guess when you spend $13k on that "preventative" maintenance, we can't expect much from you.

The dude is an idiot.

 

[Artie]

I don't understand the logic to spend $13,000 on items that were not broken as preventative maintenance, while leaving the alternator/drain issue unresolved. Though looking at the underbody photos, that might be less of concern for next owner....

This is exactly what went through my mind. He was so quick to mention how he would be dragged in the comments for choosing the dealer over LC specific indie shop because the dealer would know how to work on it because it’s so similar to the Thndra, then tells us how he’s on his 3rd alternator. Sounds like the shop is throwing alternators at the problem instead of doing a proper diag.

 

[CharlieG]

Genuinely interested in what this guy has to say but listening to him speak and watching him is about as enjoyable as punching myself in the face repeatedly. My god that dude just annoys the piss out of me.

It is on sale on cars and bids. Under carriage is pretty rusty from a southerner’s perspective. Some will think it is just surface rust. The 13k that was spent on preventative maintenance is just radiator, water pump, transmission fluid exchange, brake fluid, power steering, differential fluids, transfer case fluid, starter, alternator, wheel bearings, and brakes. Brake pads used are the Toyota economy line. The dealership charged an insane amount. The didn’t combine some of the labor hours for radiator and water pump.

2013 Toyota Land Cruiser - Doug DeMuro's 200-Series Land Cruiser, 4WD, Major Recent Servicing

This 2013 Toyota Land Cruiser is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends March 25 2024.

carsandbids.com

"Pretty rusty" is an understatement. My '08 has seen midwest winters its entire life and doesn't even look a tenth that bad. That thing is scary. The engine bay is a disaster too.

 

[tacoduck]

This is exactly what went through my mind. He was so quick to mention how he would be dragged in the comments for choosing the dealer over LC specific indie shop because the dealer would know how to work on it because it’s so similar to the Thndra, then tells us how he’s on his 3rd alternator. Sounds like the shop is throwing alternators at the problem instead of doing a proper diag.

Dude has a net worth pushing $100 mil. These cars are used for content (write offs). Even if it was the perfect car, he could lease a new g-wagon, make a couple of videos, and then sell it on his own website for a profit. $13k is a rounding error for this kid.

 

[Madtiger]

I don't understand the logic to spend $13,000 on items that were not broken as preventative maintenance, while leaving the alternator/drain issue unresolved. Though looking at the underbody photos, that might be less of concern for next owner....

Actually i understand. He did not want to use 3rd party shops bc then people on the internet wil yap how his LC is bad because he did not use Toyota parts etc. and that the Indy shop is incompetent…and that he should have taken to XXX etc.

By going to Toyota dealer, he can (and did) claim that he went the official route, got official Toyota parts and still got issues. And like above post, $13k is nothing to him. BUT it is everything to his YouTube presentation that LC’s problems are due to design/environment and NOT due to negligence nor lack of maintenance.

And he DID research the common issues with LC and did everything in his power ($$$) to prevent them. He is not wrong given where his LC is parked.

So yeah, given his vast income and what his channel is about, i understand his rationale. (And let’s face it…Doug is far from being a dummy to get where he is at today…….)

 

[Supra Turbo]

Actually i understand. He did not want to use 3rd party shops bc then people on the internet wil yap how his LC is bad because he did not use Toyota parts etc. and that the shop is incompetent.

By going to Toyota dealer, he can (and did) claim that he went the official route, got official Toyota parts and still got issues. And like above post, $13k is nothing to him. BUT it is everything to his YouTube presentation that LC’s problems are due to design/environment and NOT due to negligence nor lack of maintenance.

And he DID research the common issues with LC and did everything in his power ($$$) to prevent them. He is not wrong given where his LC is parked.

So yeah, given his vast income and what his channel is about, i understand his rationale.

I'm not questioning his decision to take it to Toyota vs third party or necessarily the cost. My point was around the decision to prioritize addressing potentially arising issues, while not taking care of existing first. That is great that he replaced the radiator, but that doesn't do much if the vehicle has a power drain issue....

 

[stonepa]

He stored it outside (no garage), in a coastal environment (800’ from the ocean) for 37 weeks a year. Hope his replacement for that service is Uber.

Fluid film and dirt would have prevented all of that rust. My 100 has sat less that 100' from the North Pacific Ocean since 1998 and has zero rust underneath or the body except for rock chips on the hood.

 

[Madtiger]

I'm not questioning his decision to take it to Toyota vs third party or necessarily the cost. My point was around the decision to prioritize addressing potentially arising issues, while not taking care of existing first. That is great that he replaced the radiator, but that doesn't do much if the vehicle has a power drain issue....

I think that his alternator was replaced several times and the car is functioning now. And i am SURE that Toyota service TRIED their darnest to find other causes of alternator failure bc Doug is pretty much a signed blank check.

 

[Madtiger]

My guess is that Doug got a bad/defective LC from previous owner…the unknown of buying a used car. It is just a LC with some sort of alternator issue (whatever the root cause it). I would NOT touch that LC with a 10 ft pole.

 

[ryanCA]

Hope his replacement for that service is Uber.

his replacement is a new sequoia trd pro