Definitive(hopefully) 80's spring selection thread

[Box Rocket]

think of being on a boat. driving straight ahead i had bad sway issues. hit a bump in the road, get it swaying side to side. get a gust of wind, it would sway hard. excessively tippy when cornering. (worse than it was with no sway bars and slees).

That's very strange. I've been in Darren's truck, Woodys truck and my own obviously and there's not a hint of that. @woody has the intermediate coils too, which are softer, and pushes his 80 pretty hard on fast stuff and Doesn't get any of that either. Strange.

 

[baldilocks]

Agreed. That's why I have the questions I do. My cooler full of ice & cold beer weighs that, but it could be over GVWR.

What? Is cold beer heavier than not cold beer or sort of cold beer? I do know that cold beer has always exerted a stronger gravitational pull on me than not cold beer ever could. This fact may just apply when choosing the right spring. I’m not sure, this should probably be beaten to death and beyond in a separate thread. Do we have any physicists in the house???

 

[LFD2037]

The heavies say 300-500kg of extra weight. That's 700-1000lbs. The Slinky kits are being used in Australia on trucks much heavier than most US trucks.

I corrected my other post as I went the wrong way w/the lb. to kg. conversion!
BUT, for the heavies Stage 1 it says, & I quote,
"as well as to support any necessary equipment you may carry, for weekends and day trips averaging at aprox 150-300 KG of extra weight."
That's quoted straight from your link. 300-600lbs. IS much better than what I said earlier! Is this above GVWR? Thanks!

 

[Box Rocket]

I corrected my other post as I went the wrong way w/the lb. to kg. conversion!
BUT, for the heavies Stage 1 it says, & I quote,
"as well as to support any necessary equipment you may carry, for weekends and day trips averaging at aprox 150-300 KG of extra weight."
That's quoted straight from your link. 300-600lbs. IS much better than what I said earlier! Is this above GVWR? Thanks!

I believe that's a typo and is weights for the intermediates not the heavies. The other link for the Stage4 heavies says 300-500kg. But yes the numbers should be above GVWR

 

[nuclearlemon]

Honest
Do you recommend it to friends

The slinky? the slee? or the ome? the ome was good, i just needed to go a bit higher than 50mm. the slee was stable to drive, but every bump is jarring. the slinky. for off road only, yes, but for a daily driver, hell no i spent 2k on a useless suspension.

 

[Box Rocket]

The slinky? the slee? or the ome? the ome was good, i just needed to go a bit higher than 50mm. the slee was stable to drive, but every bump is jarring. the slinky. for off road only, yes, but for a daily driver, hell no i spent 2k on a useless suspension.

Sounds like your mind is made up with the Slinky stuff. Good news is you can likely get most if not all of your money back out of it. I still think there is something else going on because your experience is so different from any other I've heard.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

My take away comes from running an average of 3000 dirt miles and 50 nights per year for the last few years. Did I just say I love my CampTeq

IMO the ultimate suspension is comprised of the proper balance of spring rate, shock valving, vehicle weight, location of weight, and vehicles COG.

My OME 850J+10mm packer/863J started out a little to active and stiff to my liking. As the years have progressed she has gained some weight and now tips the scale at 6950#. My weight is back heavy with nothing hanging off the rear, and 160lbs of CampTeq and awning on the roof. At the current weight it the ride is excellent, it absorbs ledges, unloads very much to my liking, smooth level flex in the rough stuff, and runs washboard like it does not exist. Until recently the only complaint was excessive sway at speed but if you set it properly into corner it was OK but if a major correction was needed it would not be good/scary. Recently an upgraded rear sway bar has taken the sway to a manageable level with a big level of comfort when at speed on the road. I do believe I have my OME suspension loaded close to the max with a center of hub to fender lip measurement of 23" both front and back. I do notice after several hours of non stop off roading my shocks beginning to bag so it would be better if I had remote reservoirs as they do get hot, something I should check into but Im not willing to take the chance changing my valving with the risk of taking a step back.

O'couse it easy to like and be bias on your own stuff but one always wonder is it really all that? It was confirmed recently when my wife and ran the White Rim in one day. Not a hard trail but 110 miles of bumpy dirt takes it toll more so on the passenger than a driver. When we reached the end of WR it was an hour away from sunset and she wanted to come out on Potash road another 32 miles of bumpy dirt, really. Its now 8 oclock and we get into MOAB and set down for some Mexican food and ask what she thought about our day? Not once did she say anything about being tired or the ride just it was beautiful and she was glad she went. The only comment was she was surprised the ride was smoother than our LX470. At that point I knew I was close to getting it right.

We can all argue what set up is best but the bottom line is what works for you and gets you out on the trail. YMMV

 

[nuclearlemon]

Sounds like your mind is made up with the Slinky stuff. Good news is you can likely get most if not all of your money back out of it. I still think there is something else going on because your experience is so different from any other I've heard.

once bitten, twice shy

 

[Qball]

Suspension are comprised of 2 components: Spring and shock/damper. The spring's job is to suspend the weight and shock/damper's job to augment and control the characteristic of the movement/travel. The damper(proper name for shock) is there to dampen or resist movement in both/either directions from the static sag point. Ideal sag for offroad vehicles are around 50-60% or for 10 inch of full travel there are 4-5 inches of up travel and 5-6 inches of down travel. This is always the first step to properly setup any suspension regardless of the spring and shock/damper selection.

Since this thread is intended to help everyone select spring then let's focus on getting the right sag for our springs in relationship for our weight and of course shocks is our travel limiting factor so it just dawned on me that we should use our shock to measure where we our static sag is at. Most 0-3 inch 80's dampers are about 10 and 9 inches of full travel front and rear respectively, 4-6 inches lift dampers are about 11 and 10 inches of full travel front and rear respectively. This means if I want 6 inches of sag on 10 inch travel shocks I should have 4 inches of travel/shock shaft left on the shock.

If bump stops are installed without relocating the shock down the same amount will mean we will lose that amount of travel from the overall shock travel. 1 inch of bump stop will reduce the shock up and overall shock travel.

 

[Qball]

We can all argue what set up is best but the bottom line is what works for you and gets you out on the trail. YMMV

Exactly BUT without accurate numbers everything is just your words vs my words and no one else can benefit from all the experience many people like you have already gained and the great amount of work you have put it. So if you so happen to drive by a truck stop can you get your per axle weight? We do know OME numbers so with your numbers we have some really good reference points!

Also if you can get the show shaft that is exposed to see how much sag you are running would be awesome too!

TIA!

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Exactly BUT without accurate numbers everything is just your words vs my words and no one else can benefit from all the experience many people like you have already gained and the great amount of work you have put it. So if you so happen to drive by a truck stop can you get your per axle weight? We do know OME numbers so with your numbers we have some really good reference points!

Also if you can get the show shaft that is exposed to see how much sag you are running would be awesome too!

TIA!

My shock mounts have been modded for maximum flex. 23" hub to fender tells the
OME sag story.

 

[Qball]

My shock mounts have been modded for maximum flex. 23" hub to fender tells the
OME sag story.

Awesome, thanks! Can you still get the shock shaft numbers? Even after you mod you shock mount the over all travel of the shock remain the same(L shock I assueme) so we should still be accurately find out how much sag you are getting.

BTW I've also put your numbers into the third post of the thread which I am turning into a list of sample setups. Also based on your numbers I think my new setup with heavy springs will be a little stiff, hopefully not too bad....fingers crossed.

 

[B Todd]

Suspension are comprised of 2 components: Spring and shock/damper. The spring's job is to suspend the weight and shock/damper's job to augment and control the characteristic of the movement/travel. The damper(proper name for shock) is there to dampen or resist movement in both/either directions from the static sag point. Ideal sag for offroad vehicles are around 50-60% or for 10 inch of full travel there are 4-5 inches of up travel and 5-6 inches of down travel. This is always the first step to properly setup any suspension regardless of the spring and shock/damper selection.

Since this thread is intended to help everyone select spring then let's focus on getting the right sag for our springs in relationship for our weight and of course shocks is our travel limiting factor so it just dawned on me that we should use our shock to measure where we our static sag is at. Most 0-3 inch 80's dampers are about 10 and 9 inches of full travel front and rear respectively, 4-6 inches lift dampers are about 11 and 10 inches of full travel front and rear respectively. This means if I want 6 inches of sag on 10 inch travel shocks I should have 4 inches of travel/shock shaft left on the shock.

If bump stops are installed without relocating the shock down the same amount will mean we will lose that amount of travel from the overall shock travel. 1 inch of bump stop will reduce the shock up and overall shock travel.

This took me a long time to grasp. Which is why OME medium kit never made sense to me and I went back to stock springs. If the OME dampers are not much longer than stock, and for my case which is no bumpers and no 3rd row, usually just day or overnight trips (very light), the medium kit yielded almost 3" of lift in the rear. I knew I had to be loosing travel somewhere. Might seem common sense to the more experienced members, but it took me lots of research and time on Colorado trails to understand the benefits of a balanced suspension.

 

[LFD2037]

This took me a long time to grasp. Which is why OME medium kit never made sense to me and I went back to stock springs. If the OME dampers are not much longer than stock, and for my case which is no bumpers and no 3rd row, usually just day or overnight trips (very light), the medium kit yielded almost 3" of lift in the rear. I knew I had to be loosing travel somewhere. Might seem common sense to the more experienced members, but it took me lots of research and time on Colorado trails to understand the benefits of a balanced suspension.

Look for my thread "OME kits don't make sense" or something like that. Ton of info on how their shocks are too short.

***ETA*** Here's the thread:
OME shock length just doesn't make sense!

 

[chap79]

@Qball I should add setup info for your reference.

Springs: OME 3051/3052, 4” extra heavy lift
Shocks: Fox 985-24-076/985-24-087.
Bump stop spacing: front 2”/ rear 3”
Castor: Slee plates
Tires: 37x12.50
Misc suspension mods: sway bars extensions, extended brake lines, adjustable panhards, DC front driveshaft, extended rear lower control arms, trimmed flares
Truck weight: ~7000lbs
Driving style: AGGRESSIVE 60+ mph on desert roads

 

[Qball]

@Qball I should add setup info for your reference.

Springs: OME 3051/3052, 4” extra heavy lift
Shocks: Fox 985-24-076/985-24-087.
Bump stop spacing: front 2”/ rear 3”
Castor: Slee plates
Tires: 37x12.50
Misc suspension mods: sway bars extensions, extended brake lines, adjustable panhards, DC front driveshaft, extended rear lower control arms, trimmed flares
Truck weight: ~7000lbs
Driving style: AGGRESSIVE 60+ mph on desert roads

Thanks buddy! Can you also measure the exposed shock shaft length for reference?

 

[chap79]

Thanks buddy! Can you also measure the exposed shock shaft length for reference?

If I remember correctly I’m really close to to a 40/60 ratio, it was part of the decision as to what shocks I choose along with bump stops. It will be a week or so before I’ll be able to pull numbers since I’m traveling.

Looking at my build thread I know the hub to flare numbers are 25”/26”. But I didn’t include the shock measurements: compressed, extended, neutral.

 

[Qball]

So I measured my Fox shocks' exposed shaft length and they are about 6 and 5 front and rear respectively on 2 inch lift shocks(10 and 9 inch travel F&R). My rear sags a little more than the front from the appearance perspective but overall % is about the same. What this tells me is that the 80's suspension is designed with more up travel and from the look of it it's around 40% or even 30% if you want a firm ride. Of course the spring curve is also important part of equation and being progressive the curve is much more difficult guess where I sit in that curve.

I'll update the beginning of the thread with the new static sag point.

 

[Qball]

Finally installed my OME 2.5 heavy springs. Front rear axle to fender is now 23 and 24 so I netted about 2 inches in the back and less than half an inch in the front. To my surprise the ride is firmer but not a huge change, still very smooth just a little less body roll and not blowing through the travel on bigger bumps. Over all quite happy with the current combo and might even go as far as 3 inch comp springs to firm things up even more.

I foresee some kings shocks as christmas present because at least one of my fox shocks is leaking/blown.

BTW I think how it is sitting now is about perfect to my taste, I actually don't like the level look. Will measure my shock extension later today.

 

[Qball]

I think the springs should be settled by now. Right now with 2.5 heavies front and back with 10mm trim packer the cruiser sits at 23.5 inches front and rear fender to hub center. The ride is nice and supple, very smooth like how my TJM springs felt around stock weight, I was afraid it might ride too firm but it turned out it's a bit soft even to my taste.

At this rate think I'm going to have to move to OME comp springs front and rear after getting dual batteries installed.