I was trying to find a discussion as to whether you need to still do a cut and turn on weekend driven 60 with a 3 link kit on the front. I have read where people go back and forth on the cut and turns on the SOA applications. But I'm sprung under on 37s what is going to change that I Will need to?
Cut & Turn with a 3 link? (1 Viewer)
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Regardless of suspension system, will you be keeping the stock differential front output angle? If the answer is yes then you're fine. If you adjust the output angle, that means you are adjusting the steering geometry too.
Will you be driving this at highway speeds?
Will you be driving this at highway speeds?
The most common side effect of not doing a cut and turn is bump steer and wandering. If the truck tracks straight and doesn't have significant bumps steer then don't worry about it.
I raised my truck over 6 inches with the spring over so a cut and turn was mandatory for me. I track straight at 80mph without issue.
I raised my truck over 6 inches with the spring over so a cut and turn was mandatory for me. I track straight at 80mph without issue.
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How big were you when you did the SOA? Would it not be kinda the same if mine is lifted 5 to 6 now. And no it does not wander it actually drives very well almost as good as my tundra. But I don't know how much I lifted it I messed with the springs so much but I'm on 37s if I don't disconnect my front sway bar I have very minor rub at full tern and full Flex Off Road in the front
I am around 45 to 47" tall from ground to fender height above center of tire. I currently run 35's but I could fit 37's without issue.
Everyone I know (in my club) does the cut and turn for their SOA cruisers. Everything I read online and through club members said, if you want to do it right, do the cut and turn.
I thin your geometry is going to change quite a bit if you go SOA. The differential output flange has to rotate quite a bit to meet the new angle to the tcase. This is going th throw off the steering geometry.
Maybe @Cruiserdrew or @GLTHFJ60 can chime in here. There are quite a few people on the forum with better tech than me.
Everyone I know (in my club) does the cut and turn for their SOA cruisers. Everything I read online and through club members said, if you want to do it right, do the cut and turn.
I thin your geometry is going to change quite a bit if you go SOA. The differential output flange has to rotate quite a bit to meet the new angle to the tcase. This is going th throw off the steering geometry.
Maybe @Cruiserdrew or @GLTHFJ60 can chime in here. There are quite a few people on the forum with better tech than me.
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You haven't done enough homework if you are asking vague questions like this and wanting to build a link system.
There aren't that many people running 3 link front suspensions on 60s, let alone with a stock axle housing. Whether or not you need to do a cut and turn depends on a lot of variables, most important being;
- distance from t-case flange to diff flange
- amount of lift
- amount of axle travel
In short, there's not going to be a "yes" or "no" answer because it's all custom. Figure out where your axle will go, decide on the style of driveshaft you want to run, and then set your pinion angle appropriately. Once that's done, look at caster angle and determine if you need to do a cut and turn or if you can get away with a pinion angle compromise that will prevent the need for a cut and turn.
In terms of highway travel, you're not going to have the truck in 4WD going down the highway, so high speed vibrations aren't really a concern, unless you're going baja with it.
Definitely post up what you do, sounds interesting!
- distance from t-case flange to diff flange
- amount of lift
- amount of axle travel
In short, there's not going to be a "yes" or "no" answer because it's all custom. Figure out where your axle will go, decide on the style of driveshaft you want to run, and then set your pinion angle appropriately. Once that's done, look at caster angle and determine if you need to do a cut and turn or if you can get away with a pinion angle compromise that will prevent the need for a cut and turn.
In terms of highway travel, you're not going to have the truck in 4WD going down the highway, so high speed vibrations aren't really a concern, unless you're going baja with it.
Definitely post up what you do, sounds interesting!
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- #9
I appreciate your input I really do but that's what I'm doing is my homework I've done a Toyota Tacoma and a tundra I just want to do it the right way doesn't matter how long it takes but I want to be rolling around with a 3 link everything else on my truck is spot-on I'd like to keep it that way my wife and I travel all over and I'm about to have a baby now the truck is 100% solid it's just not as much flex for the rocks and I want a nice easy smooth ride and I want to crawl like I have now I'm just limited on my Flex when it comes to rocks. And if a 3 link is possible which I am very sure that I can do it I don't want to go backwards with old-school geometry and just SOA that would be the easy route.
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- #10
Thanks for your input it's somewhat new doing it to a 60 butt if all goes well I'll buy as I need to make it work and I'll leave my hangers just in case I just can't get it to do right and drive the way I want I'll just go to the old school way of springing it over. Right now the truck drives like a dream it handles and stears like it's brand new I just want to be overly capable with plenty of flex and very little abuse to crawl rocks I have a lot of buddies that have newer Jeeps hard to compare but if I had a little bit more Flex it would be a lot nicer less abuse. The one thing I don't want to do myself is cut and turn I've contacted Cruiser Outfitters several times with no response do you know of anyone that I can clean the Axel and send off to?
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Ok, I'll bite. I have been doing my homework too.
Post up your link geometry. You're using the calculator, right?
Since an axle in a linked suspension travels in an arc rather then up and down like it does with leaf springs, you have to pay attention to your relationship between your upper and lower links so your caster remains constant throughout travel, especially since you're going to be driving it on the street. You don't want your axle to be rotating as it travels, because then you're caster is going to be all over the place and you'll get massive bump steer. I would just set your driveshaft/pinion angle at ride height because the pinion angle will remains constant through travel if your design your geometry right.
If you aren't confident doing a Cut/turn yourself then why do you trust yourself to cut and weld suspension brackets and figure out geometry and vehicle dynamics? This is a serious question.
Post up your link geometry. You're using the calculator, right?
Since an axle in a linked suspension travels in an arc rather then up and down like it does with leaf springs, you have to pay attention to your relationship between your upper and lower links so your caster remains constant throughout travel, especially since you're going to be driving it on the street. You don't want your axle to be rotating as it travels, because then you're caster is going to be all over the place and you'll get massive bump steer. I would just set your driveshaft/pinion angle at ride height because the pinion angle will remains constant through travel if your design your geometry right.
If you aren't confident doing a Cut/turn yourself then why do you trust yourself to cut and weld suspension brackets and figure out geometry and vehicle dynamics? This is a serious question.
I would not set the caster until you have the suspension pretty well mocked up. If your doing 3 link I would go with wider axles. The stock axles won't leave much room for coilovers or coils. If you want we may be able to assist you in getting significantly more travel out of your leaf springs. Post pics man.
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Correct, in fact that's probably the last thing that needs to happen.
Did you ever hear back from us? What email were/are you using? I've been traveling so kurt@ has had a bit of a delay but info@ has regular eyes on. LMK, we are more than happy to do a cut/turn.
The cut and turn only effects the relationship between pinion angle and caster. Typically a 60 housing has about 2 degrees positive caster
with the pinion pointing upward about 6 degrees. Like @GLTHFJ60 stated, it would depend on lift and D/S length and the u-joint choices.
FJ60 u-joint have 24~27 degrees of articulation. FJ80 fronts have about 45. Kurt has the parts to set up 80 joints. Will you use a double cardon or not ? If your front D/S is too short the angles get excessive with a lot of lift. You can always throw in a doubler to push the t-case back.
There's a lot of variables and most most problems have at least a couple solutions
with the pinion pointing upward about 6 degrees. Like @GLTHFJ60 stated, it would depend on lift and D/S length and the u-joint choices.
FJ60 u-joint have 24~27 degrees of articulation. FJ80 fronts have about 45. Kurt has the parts to set up 80 joints. Will you use a double cardon or not ? If your front D/S is too short the angles get excessive with a lot of lift. You can always throw in a doubler to push the t-case back.
There's a lot of variables and most most problems have at least a couple solutions
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
pics of your truck at this point are mandatory !
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Ok so truck has been siting for 2 years now. I move out of the state for work and the truck just sat and now I’m back. So not doing the 3link anymore. Just going to SOA, getting the perches from Ruffstuff. Using my current springs going to pull the add a leafs out and drop it. I want to try and use these springs but might be to dam big. So we will see where it sits. Going to cut and turn the axel and re-gear from 4.11 to 4.88 upgrade axel shafts. Doing high steer pieced together, Fj80 tie-rods not going to do joints. 1.5”x .25 Dom with Marlins Chromoly arms and .25mm pins. Doing a red line drive line brake. And disc conversion on the back don’t know which one just yet. Because I’m doing the drive line e brake so I don’t need calipers with a E-Brake. So nothing exciting I will send some pictures of it later. Parts are starting to pile up. Doing some maintenance then it will be parked and I will get this party started. Got a clip not much flex!
