Bump steer, Torque steer, break steer, generally difficult to point where I want to go. (1 Viewer)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

caladin

Noob, but trying to learn
SILVER Star
Joined
May 30, 2011
Threads
211
Messages
829
Location
Pflugerville Tx
Website
bz93.com
I bought a pre lifted fj60, it's on 33s and there seems to be plenty of room, so a 2" or 3" lift.
The PO has proven to make some odd decisions, so it may have not been aligned/shimmed after the lift.

When on a bump or rutted road, have to work pretty hard to keep it going straight and on the road.
When a brake it gets a little brake steer,
I only just recently (as in googling this question before posting) heard of torque steer, but I think I have a little of that too.

Also, there is about 15 deg either direction of dead space in the steering. I'd be very surpised if there are not worn-out components, what tests should I do to figure out what is causing it?
The obvious ones are to
1. Reach under and see if anything moves when I pull on it,
2. Run the wheels back and forth on the pavement and look for slack at component joints.
3. Put it on jack stands and run it left and right and look for slack at component joints.

What other tests should I be doing?

Isn't there a power steering box adjustment?

Break and torque steer a pretty minor, though I'd like to address them eventually. The bump steer and rut steer (for lack of a better term) are top priorities, are castor shims something all good alignment shops would have? OR should I buy a set of 2.5 deg ones, and install them before going to the alignment shop?

Are caster shims needed after most lifts or just SOA? I definitely don't have SOA lift.

With the castor shims am I adding a positive or negative caster to the steering to compensate for a 2-3" lift? (MUD searching seems to indicate 2.5+ degrees of positive camber)

Pic cruiser to see lift to ID height, plus it's a pic of a cruiser.

Correction: I just read on another thread that bump steer is when the wheel moves, but the truck still goes straight, that's not what I'm getting, i hit a bump or a rut and have to radically adjust to stay on the road. Now I read in another thread its the opposite, the car turns without the steering wheel moving, and that's what I'm getting.

Also worth noting, I had a non-lifted Fj60 for several years, and I was happy with its steering.
I did a mini truck PS install on my FJ40, but that's pretty much my sum total knowledge about steering components.

PXL_20230821_153451301.jpg
 
Last edited:
how about some actual good pictures of your suspension
 
PXL_20230821_155610935.jpg


PXL_20230821_155613513.jpg



PXL_20230821_155616580.jpg



PXL_20230821_155624506.jpg



PXL_20230821_155635200.jpg

Correction, there is a TINY bit of rotation on the part connected to the pittman arm in this pic, but just a couple degrees . (Drag Link?)

This is the only part that significantly moved when I grabbed on it. pic is twisting up.

PXL_20230821_155654370.jpg


This is how much it moved total, pic is twisting down.
PXL_20230821_155656021.jpg


Looks like thats on a ball type joint, but I have no idea how much it's supposed to move.

I don't see a positive Caster shim
PXL_20230821_164309152.jpg
 
Last edited:
You need to just do everything. Spring bushings, add 4-degree caster shims, replace both steering linkages and ends, do a knuckle rebuild, probably need brakes and wheel bearings. Is there any maintenance history under there at all?
 
No, I know mostly that the PO did the tank recall, and then let the truck sit for 10 years, because of an undiagnosed head gasket issue causing overheats.

Also that he bought all kinds of upgrades, but some of the installs seem dubious (like there is a high tech MSD style ignition kit in there, that's not even hooked up, it's all running on the old stock stuff).
 
You need to just do everything. Spring bushings, add 4-degree caster shims, replace both steering linkages and ends, do a knuckle rebuild, probably need brakes and wheel bearings. Is there any maintenance history under there at all?
This 100%.

You can’t trust it til it’s all done.

These trucks will go on forever screaming and crying for upkeep, and still drive mostly proper.
 
What is the priority list for replacing everything to affect the steering issue?

What tests can I perform to determine what's in the worst shape?

I get the knuckle rebuild, because of all the oily mud, but is the rest just "it's old replace it"?

Spring bushings, sound like a good place to start, who makes the best? OME?

Are the best tie rod ends the 555 ones, or are OEM still avaialble?

What's the easiest 1 bannana stuff, so I can get it knocked out?

I have to spread my cruiser purchases out, to stay on budget....
 
Last edited:
There’s no magic bullet. It’s a simple system that doesn’t take much to fully pull out.

-spring bushings
-u bolts
-tie rod ends
-steering damper
-steering gear box
-caster shims
-knuckles and wheel bearings

Do it all and have peace of mind.

Chances are there is something unsafe going on and doing one of the above may not fix it.
 
You need to just do everything. Spring bushings, add 4-degree caster shims, replace both steering linkages and ends, do a knuckle rebuild, probably need brakes and wheel bearings. Is there any maintenance history under there at all?

"replace both steering linkages and ends"

Does this mean all 4 ends, or all 4 ends, plus both drag line and tie rod tubes?
 
I would just replace the whole things. It is generally not worth the time to try and re-use the tubes when the new ones are <$100 each
 
A brand new stock FJ60 rolling off the factory floor in Japan only had about 1/2” down travel in the front until the bump stops hit. It also had negligible bump steer.

The reason for bump steer is the geometry of the steering gear: the higher the suspension is lifted, the worse the bump steer gets because the tie rod tubes angle up higher.

Look under your vehicle and see for yourself. Your tubes are not horizontal-ish. When the springs compress on a bump, the tube angle gets more horizontal — which pushes your pitman arm on the steering gearbox - which jerks the steering wheel.

There’s no way to prevent it on a lifted vehicle. A steering stabilizer just hampers the articulation of the suspension.
5FF62342-AE99-4F1B-B86F-2701952ED541.png
 
So is a drop pitman arm the soloution?
Hi steer?

I read the drag link is supposed to be parallel to the axle, and it surely is not
 
OP post:

Try #3 first to determine extent of loosey-goosey components.

Then, as mentioned, do it all, perhaps leave front axle rebuild for last as you will need proper steering in order to set preload.
 
On mine the adjustable spring relay rod, connected to the pitman arm, came loose so no more steering (*)

5 (edit, 4!) tie rods first.
(*) want to learn dutch swearwords?
 
Last edited:
On mine the adjustable spring relay rod, connected to the pitman arm, came loose so no more steering.

5 tie rods first.
5? All the kits I saw had 4?

https://cruiserteq.com/tie-rod-end-kit-fits-8-80-90-60-62-series-left-hand-drive/

TRE69065_5__91954.jpg


is #5 the one one on the steering damper to the drag link?


Side Question: This is supposed to be Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters, who's a good dude, but should I be surprised at a $56 shipping charge on these + rubber spring bushings?
I get these are steel, but $56 seems excessive.
 
5? All the kits I saw had 4?
sorry, only 4, that saves some time.
I got the wrong one for right hand drive, conical hole is wrong way then.
nice when all is apart on jack and climb the email tree.

tapatalk_-162232743.jpeg
 
Last edited:
5? All the kits I saw had 4?

https://cruiserteq.com/tie-rod-end-kit-fits-8-80-90-60-62-series-left-hand-drive/

View attachment 3407569

is #5 the one one on the steering damper to the drag link?


Side Question: This is supposed to be Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters, who's a good dude, but should I be surprised at a $56 shipping charge on these + rubber spring bushings?
I get these are steel, but $56 seems excessive.
2 bell crank boots to the great white north was 80% of that $ figure. i don't think kurt's rapin' on the shipping :meh:
 
Shipping is teh sukq, but it is worth getting parts from a stellar vendor @cruiseroutfit
:cheers:
 
5? All the kits I saw had 4?

https://cruiserteq.com/tie-rod-end-kit-fits-8-80-90-60-62-series-left-hand-drive/

View attachment 3407569

is #5 the one one on the steering damper to the drag link?


Side Question: This is supposed to be Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters, who's a good dude, but should I be surprised at a $56 shipping charge on these + rubber spring bushings?
I get these are steel, but $56 seems excessive.

Ping our parts team and they can look into shipping anomalies, it's possible a dimension is off or the e-commerce system only offers XYZ shipping to your zip code. They can always look into it.

We also offer complete OEM or aftermarket tie rod end kits WITH tubes and clamps. Very popular!

 
steering that darts all over the place is likely due to a "toe-in" or "toe-out" situation with the alignment. The rest of those components look ratty and old AF and would be prudent to replace.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom