Big Fuel Tank

[scottryana]

Yes I revised my statement to say you would just have to drop it lower to clear the exhaust.

I know that a local has the same exact setup: 4x4 lab + oem aux tank so I'm guessing pretty much plan N play.

 

[cody c]

The more and more I look at this it seems like the OEM subtank is fine for a diesel powered truck. Seems to avoid a lot of hassle and I can't think of a situation where I'll need more than it offers.

Based on the price I would argue that. I think the OEM tank is more for the folks with an affinity towards OEM parts.

I say this because with my 6BT, I dont need a fuel pump in the tank, I dont need all kinds of fuel return stuff, and I dont need a tank that costs $800 or whatever the OEM is. And I dont go to bed at night in fear of gravity fed this or that systems.

I can get away with a simple "Y" pipe at the filler neck without any fancy filler valves, and then either a fuel tranfer pump to fill the stock tank, or a 3 way valve like this $60 one off of ebay: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FUEL-TANK-SE..._Accessories&hash=item35c00e2638#ht_500wt_865

Wiring in the transfer switch and fuel gauge can be done without a mess of plug and play OEM stuff shipped from the other side of the world.

 

[Akella]

I have been following this thread for a bit. I eventually want a additional fuel without jerry can as my only option.

Check out these tanks...

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=148/home_id=143/mode=cat/cat148.htm

Poly tank will nice, but i am not sure it is good idea in our case where exhaust will be very close to the tank.

I want to note that I omitted a number of tanks that were close to the 40" frame width in going through the ones I extracted last evening. Now that I understand better the dimensions of the OEM tank, it might be worth browsing those tanks again for a, ahem, tighter fit.

My concern with tanks near the extreme width that fits between the rails is getting the mounting to work and having access room to attach fittings, hose, wires, whatever. On the other hand, that's where you can gain capacity versus a smaller, easier to mount tank. It's a little difficult short of getting a tank and trying to fit it to say exactly what gives you the biggest bang for the buck without being a PITA to mount properly.

I will be concerned with exhaust and filler pipes for main tank cut outs.

It his this thread can be helpful for shapes reference. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/23766-A-new-to-us-1997-Toyota-HZJ80R-Landcruiser/page7

The OEM aux tank is about ~10"x20"x40". It basically fills the full width and length between the frame rails with enough gap (1" or so) to prevent any rubbing.

View attachment 684274

Why is your tank is so glossy? All my new tanks a covered in matte thick paint/coating.

The more and more I look at this it seems like the OEM subtank is fine for a diesel powered truck. Seems to avoid a lot of hassle and I can't think of a situation where I'll need more than it offers.

For not heavily armored diesel 80 OEM tank will be enough, but for the unlucky us who got thirsty gassers we need slightly more.

 

[Douglas S]

Based on the price I would argue that. I think the OEM tank is more for the folks with an affinity towards OEM parts.

I say this because with my 6BT, I dont need a fuel pump in the tank, I dont need all kinds of fuel return /vapour stuff, and I dont need a tank that costs $800 or whatever the OEM is. And I dont go to bed at night in fear of gravity fed this or that systems.

I can get away with a simple "Y" pipe at the filler neck without any fancy filler valves, and then either a fuel tranfer pump to fill the stock tank, or a 3 way valve like this $60 one off of ebay: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FUEL-TANK-SE..._Accessories&hash=item35c00e2638#ht_500wt_865

Wiring in the transfer switch and fuel gauge can be done without a mess of plug and play OEM stuff shipped from the other side of the world. Actually, I could probably grab a switch out of a ford truck from the wreckers and fit it into the dash somewhere.

The OEM subtank install in a diesel is very simple. You just plumb in a feed and return and then a solenoid to switch from tank to tank. No fancy transfer pumps or any of that nonsense. You don't even need a gauge if you don't want it.

The really nice part is that it just bolts up, not fabrication involved.

 

[alia176]

Wiring in the transfer switch and fuel gauge can be done without a mess of plug and play OEM stuff shipped from the other side of the world. Actually, I could probably grab a switch out of a ford truck from the wreckers and fit it into the dash somewhere.

I agree, keep it simple. I've been using the transfer ECU from George Scolaro in conjunction with a Sub tank OEM pushbutton from Slee. This is a very clean solution for transferring the fuel from the aux to the main using a simple pump (low press/high volume) from your typical car parts place. Be sure to get a pump that has a built in check valve and you're set.

This ECU gets turned on by a single pushbutton of the OEM transfer switch, then the indicator light turns on (on the switch) while the pump is pumping. Pump is shut off automatically when the aux tank sends out the Empty signal to the ECU. Done.

I could've mucked with adding the aux tank sending unit to the main fuel tank gauge in the instrument cluster but just wasn't worth it IMHO for a 16g tank. If I had a 25g tank, I think it become more important.

I don't see any reason to buy any ancillary tank stuff for the oem Aux tank solution from OZ. The info outlined above is a robust solution that I've been running for eight years w/o a single hiccup. PM George if you want to inquire about the ECU. He posted on this thread somewhere above mine.

Happy Friday to all. I'm sitting in the airport, waiting to catch a plane home

 

[1FZj80]

Why is your tank is so glossy? All my new tanks a covered in matte thick paint/coating.

Not sure? The OEM tanks were new factory pull-outs. Basically, factory installed and removed in new condition for a larger tank or something.

This is what I have, but purchased about 10-years ago.

http://www.sor.com/sor/cat250.tam?c...4144163155787801669415720&page.ctx=cat250.tam

 

[greentruck]

Poly tank will nice, but i am not sure it is good idea in our case where exhaust will be very close to the tank.

Yeah, thought about that, but decided to include it since it was small enough that it could probably be mounted offset toward the left side of the truck, far enough away that the exhaust wouldn't be an issue. Good for you to specifically point that out, as I missed doing that.

But it's small in capacity and I prefer metal, so not my first or even second choice. I like the way that there could be a range of options here, as there are lots of good ideas so far. This sort of back and forth will help us all in figuring out what works best for each of us and will help keep potential pitfalls to a minimum for each person's comfort level, always a good idea when dealing with fuel.

Now that I've thought more about it, I kind of like the poly tank's potential to maybe slide under the front of the bed in our M101 CDN. That AND a subtank on the 80 would really get some range. Hmmmm...

 

[scottryana]

Akella,

Did you get my PM, on buying one of the dual filler necks?

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[greentruck]

alia,
This sounds just about what I'm looking for myself to go along with identifying and mounting a less than OEM-expensive subtank. If you or George have any links to build threads or docs, that would be really helpful to have linked to this thread, as it's a solution that I'm sure others will want to pursue... George was checking in on the thread, but I'll PM him if he doesn't see this after a decent interval.

Oh, and a happy on time flight to start the weekend off with.

George,
Could you describe a bit more about what you can offer to help us subtank-noobies get our heads around setting up a simple transfer system?

I agree, keep it simple. I've been using the transfer ECU from George Scolaro in conjunction with a Sub tank OEM pushbutton from Slee. This is a very clean solution for transferring the fuel from the aux to the main using a simple pump (low press/high volume) from your typical car parts place. Be sure to get a pump that has a built in check valve and you're set.

This ECU gets turned on by a single pushbutton of the OEM transfer switch, then the indicator light turns on (on the switch) while the pump is pumping. Pump is shut off automatically when the aux tank sends out the Empty signal to the ECU. Done.

I could've mucked with adding the aux tank sending unit to the main fuel tank gauge in the instrument cluster but just wasn't worth it IMHO for a 16g tank. If I had a 25g tank, I think it become more important.

I don't see any reason to buy any ancillary tank stuff for the oem Aux tank solution from OZ. The info outlined above is a robust solution that I've been running for eight years w/o a single hiccup. PM George if you want to inquire about the ECU. He posted on this thread somewhere above mine.

Happy Friday to all. I'm sitting in the airport, waiting to catch a plane home

 

[greentruck]

I did some digging to turn up some more reference material here on MUD about subtank installs that could be useful in piecing together a non-OEM subtank installation.

I'll start with the mother of all subtank threads:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...roject-pics.html?highlight=George+subtank+ECU

This one is Romer's install thread using George's ECU:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/150756-oem-sub-tank-aux-fuel-tank-setups-faq.html

George's subtank thread:
http://george4wd.taskled.com/auxtank.html

Boston Mangler's 44 gallon install:
http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/auxtank.htm

A MAF 25 gallon install:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/104791-man-fre-24-gallon-auxilliary-tank.html

I'm going to digest this material and maybe add some comments on specifically what info would be useful to us here.

 

[Akella]

Akella,

Did you get my PM, on buying one of the dual filler necks?

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan,

I got your pm. I will pm you back in few min.

Yeah, thought about that, but decided to include it since it was small enough that it could probably be mounted offset toward the left side of the truck, far enough away that the exhaust wouldn't be an issue. Good for you to specifically point that out, as I missed doing that.

But it's small in capacity and I prefer metal, so not my first or even second choice. I like the way that there could be a range of options here, as there are lots of good ideas so far. This sort of back and forth will help us all in figuring out what works best for each of us and will help keep potential pitfalls to a minimum for each person's comfort level, always a good idea when dealing with fuel.

Now that I've thought more about it, I kind of like the poly tank's potential to maybe slide under the front of the bed in our M101 CDN. That AND a subtank on the 80 would really get some range. Hmmmm...

Ya, if you will put poly tank under your trailer plus main plus sub tank than you will get some real range.

I did some digging to turn up some more reference material here on MUD about subtank installs that could be useful in piecing together a non-OEM subtank installation.

I'll start with the mother of all subtank threads:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...roject-pics.html?highlight=George+subtank+ECU

This one is Romer's install thread using George's ECU:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/150756-oem-sub-tank-aux-fuel-tank-setups-faq.html

George's subtank thread:
http://george4wd.taskled.com/auxtank.html

Boston Mangler's 44 gallon install:
http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/auxtank.htm

A MAF 25 gallon install:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/104791-man-fre-24-gallon-auxilliary-tank.html

I'm going to digest this material and maybe add some comments on specifically what info would be useful to us here.

Good links However, Boston Mangler's 44 gallon install link is not working for me at least.

Google ads just showed me this tank which looks like it may work for us as it clears the exhaust and filler pipe. Sorry dont have time to find dimensions as i need to go to work in few. http://www.jeep4x4center.com/gas-ta...campaign=cse&gclid=CO_ni7Wa_rICFcxcMgodpiQAKg

 

[alia176]

alia,
This sounds just about what I'm looking for myself to go along with identifying and mounting a less than OEM-expensive subtank. If you or George have any links to build threads or docs, that would be really helpful to have linked to this thread, as it's a solution that I'm sure others will want to pursue... George was checking in on the thread, but I'll PM him if he doesn't see this after a decent interval.

Oh, and a happy on time flight to start the weekend off with.

George,
Could you describe a bit more about what you can offer to help us subtank-noobies get our heads around setting up a simple transfer system?

Here's the link to George's tech page: http://www.george4wd.taskled.com/

I met George four days after I bought my 80 and pretty much did a Vulcan mind melt with him on his driveway. He's a cool Aussie, as far as Aussies go Anyway, he did many tech things that were first in this country and the aux install was one of them. A nice writeup on his tech page, just follow the links imbedded.

Please read up on his sub tank install to familiarize with the process before popping out the questions as I'm sure he is tired of answering the same questions He is very thorough with his writeups/installs as most engineers are as you know.

Anyway, I'll edit this post with some pics and info about my install to give you a rodent eye view (looking up) of my subtank...once I get off this couch My dog and my six year old daughter are flanking me so I ain't budging for a long, long time.

Edit: finally got off the couch and took some pics.

Left side


Right side


Pump/filter area

 

[scottryana]

Akella thanks, I just paypal'd you the money. Let me know if you got it. Looking forward to getting the filler neck. I saw you mentioned the 25th, that is fine. I will hold off on any tank build ideas until I get the neck.

 

[alia176]

Akella thanks, I just paypal'd you the money. Let me know if you got it. Looking forward to getting the filler neck. I saw you mentioned the 25th, that is fine. I will hold off on any tank build ideas until I get the neck.

Are there any more of the dual necks? If so, PM me the details please, someone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller.......

More pics

Pump with check valve closeup. Don't ask about more info on this cool little pump as I don't have it. Lots of folks have asked me and I can't get any useful pump number from the unit. I did buy it from Carquest and I imagine this to be a common unit for carb'ed rigs.



Rivnut at the rear of the driver side tank strap.



Exhaust area

 

[alia176]

more pics

Clearance toward the rear of the tank and the body




Clearance in front of the tank and the cross member (right above the rear axle)



We can use all four of these mounting locations with any of the non oem tanks so study up on how George installed the four rivnuts into the body. One of these is a royal PITA due to the lack of room, above the axle area.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Ali

 

[CycloSteve]

We can use all four of these mounting locations with any of the non oem tanks so study up on how George installed the four rivnuts into the body. One of these is a royal PITA due to the lack of room, above the axle area.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Ali

The mounts for the front are best approached from above...I drilled holes from the top for those based on the comments of CruiserDrew, thus skipped doing the nutserts there. The holes look large, as they are "access" holes for the socket so that I could get to the factory holes below. Good old nuts and bolts for the front mount points, plus 25mm body plugs above, and nutserts for the rear.

Most everything with the OEM setup applies to doing any long-range tanks. I would definitely like a 20 gallon tank in back, as the 38 gallon one hangs just too low IMHO.



Steve

 

[greentruck]

alia,
Thanks for the pics and comments. All very useful. Yes, I'm going to look things over as I get a chance and come up with specific questions -- that is if there are any. He's got some great, thorough documentation so just reading it may answer all my questions.

I've got a few Aussie buddies on line in another hobby, model railroading. They're great folks and always ready to give you a hand if they can help.

I did note the external pump used for the OEM and many installs, along with yours. I'm actually leaning toward an in-tank pump myself to minimize and neaten the plumbing and wiring associated with the install. Most of the aftermarket tank options I cited previously support this, too. I used to be leery of in-tank pumps years ago, but they seem to have certain advantages, one of which being bathed in gas inside the tank will be in a cleaner environment than sitting naked to elements under the back of an 80.

 

[1FZj80]

I did note the external pump used for the OEM and many installs, along with yours. I'm actually leaning toward an in-tank pump myself to minimize and neaten the plumbing and wiring associated with the install. Most of the aftermarket tank options I cited previously support this, too. I used to be leery of in-tank pumps years ago, but they seem to have certain advantages, one of which being bathed in gas inside the tank will be in a cleaner environment than sitting naked to elements under the back of an 80.

I have the OEM aux tank from SOR and it is has an OEM in-tank fuel pump, not external. It pumps 1-gal/min, so it is about 15-minutes to transfer full tank.

I agree that installing the two forwards most bolts through the floor is easiest. The rear two can be installed using the existing OEM captured nuts.

 

[greentruck]

1FZj80,
Thanks! I thought there was some mention of an OEM in-tank pump in things I've looked through in the past. Good to know that's there if needed and it provides some potential guidance in wiring in a non-Toyota in-tank pump.

I was thinking manual transfer with a spring-loaded switch. I'd get pretty tired of that after 15 or 20 minutes, but automating that is something that I think George's ECU will make simple -- at least it will when I get the time to digest everything.

 

[Akella]

I have the OEM aux tank from SOR and it is has an OEM in-tank fuel pump, not external. It pumps 1-gal/min, so it is about 15-minutes to transfer full tank.

WRONG!!!!

Toyota never offered sub tank for 80 series with pump in a tank.

Only 100 series series got sub tank with pump in the tank system.

You most likely got 100 series tank from them. I had few members contacting me with issue that SOR sold them wrong tanks or straps.