Lifeline only makes AGM batteries, so they must be best...
Best battery for stock LX570? (7 Viewers)
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Had my share of issues with Lifeline but if you were to open cramped engine compartment of Cessna 172 Skyhawk you would most likely find Concorde/Lifeline AGM battery inside. No heat shield or insulated box eiter.
AGM is still Lead Acid and not much diffrent from Flooded, it is better version of flooded but pretty sure same high tempetarure considerations apply to both. Electrolyte is absorbed by woven glass matt making it more stable to the point where you can run many brand AGMs on its side. Ideal for high pitch and roll operation in aviation and marine. Less gassing, less boiling, less spill. Considering offroading being high pitch and roll operation - AGM battery is a PRO.
Your last photo maybe from Lithium which doea in fact require BMS. Flooded and AGM do not. The only BMS on the flooded/AGM would be your voltage regulator with load/charge sense and temperature compensation. Could be why you are seeing low end of the alternator output but Toyota Service Manual alternator test would typically look for a range between 13+ to 14+ volts, will need to open service manual to look up the exact.
Extremities are not good for either chemistry so you are not wrong but Cocorde as well as Rolls list operating temps up to 160 deg F. If a concern install heat shield or insulated box. Your alternator regulator should handle the rest and lower output voltage as temp increases. Each technology has its Pros and Cons but with AGM becoming less and less expensive where you only pay small premium I would take AGM over flooded for high pitch and roll operating conditions. Spilling acid is never fun and it is extremely corrosive.
Off-roading in the dessert is extreme operating condition - while at highway speeds you likely have nothing to worry about as apparent wind and mechanical fan would likely keep up, alternator would provide for loads as battery would already be fully charged after first 10-20 miles. In extreme operating condition, heat, slow rpms, high battery loads why not move your battery into air conditioned interior cabin and for that AGM would be far superior over flooded. As alternative you can design heat shield, use some alumunium backed insulation or build insulated battery box.
This all makes my head hurt. I just go to Lexus or Toyota and buy another 100 month battery.
Yep, IMO get a lead acid and if you wish a better quality or slightly larger one.
Good catch on the second reference being for lithium, corrected above.
I'm all for theory and a high quality battery. At the end of the day, there's plenty of examples now showing issues and premature failures. AGMs aren't fully charging hence the diode and/or external charging.
You can't just relocate the starter battery to inside the cab. The long wiring run will create additional voltage droop from the regulator further exasperating charging issues. Nevermind space and payload concerns for a giant 50+ lb lump.
Agreed highway and overland travel isn't as harsh as there's plenty more cooling airflow to avoid heatsoak.
The 200-series does not use a smart alternator. It's a temp compensating alternator. If you've metered it as others of us have, in really hot operation, it may not even see 13V output. There's very little excess current like older types of alternators so even minor charge profile mismatches will have AGMs not perform.
Those of us modding are doing so for more extreme use. Otherwise why bother. And that's exactly where AGMs tend to fall down and is counterproductive as we're all generally looking for upgrades and not problems.
Right. Just did the TrueStart battery on the wife’s 2020 and the stealership offered the lifetime warranty for ~$200. 00544-27F60-LW
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If my original 4 year old battery is testing as "good - charge" on my battery tester, should I go ahead and get an 84 month truestart for approx $150? There's been a couple sluggish starts I've heard when it gets cold. I have jump capabilities so I'm not concerned about being stranded, but don't want to "stress" any of my electrical components with a weak battery.
I'm not a guru like @TeCKis300 or @bloc or @Artie on electrical stuff. And *gasp* I'd be giving up the original Panasonic that no one can get here. I have always checked and added distilled water to the original battery as needed if this matters.
I'm not a guru like @TeCKis300 or @bloc or @Artie on electrical stuff. And *gasp* I'd be giving up the original Panasonic that no one can get here. I have always checked and added distilled water to the original battery as needed if this matters.
32cls6speedmt
SILVER Star
I am flattered to be called a “guru” but to be completely honest, I just comment a lot and try to turn my own wrenches whenever possible.
Having said that, I made the switch to the Truestart and I’m glad I did. Don’t overthink it. It sounds like your current battery is giving you the signs and you should listen to them.
Thanks gents. I went ahead and put in an order just now. On cars I don't drive, I replace them a little before the 3 year mark. Given it was my car, I'm good with dealing with whatever may come. With that said....
@Artie fair point about listening. I was indeed overthinking it and going to "see how long it would last," but as @32cls6speedmt mentioned the heat my cars experience and intermittent very cold can indeed nuke batteries.
EDIT: Anyone have any sort of warranty experience with these? Was it easy, or was it along the lines of bAtTErIeS pLUs bULbS where they want you to drop off the battery, give them a few days with it and then they will decide if it is warranty worthy or not?
@Artie fair point about listening. I was indeed overthinking it and going to "see how long it would last," but as @32cls6speedmt mentioned the heat my cars experience and intermittent very cold can indeed nuke batteries.
EDIT: Anyone have any sort of warranty experience with these? Was it easy, or was it along the lines of bAtTErIeS pLUs bULbS where they want you to drop off the battery, give them a few days with it and then they will decide if it is warranty worthy or not?
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If you are referring to the OReilly Superstart line i can share my experience. Probably a YMMV anecdotal type thing, but at least proves the employees at the store have this level of leeway. This was about 2 months ago. My truck had the battery ran down and then sat for about a month with no charge. It was only about a year old, but was certainly done after that abuse. I took the battery back to OReilly and didn't mention the warranty or why the battery was dead and was prepared to buy a new one. The store clerk pulled up my account and saw the battery was only a year old and he clicked a few buttons and sent me on my way without paying anything for the new battery. So i'd say there is certainly the possibility for a very smooth warranty transaction.
Thanks for this. Good to know.
I was asking about the Toyota TruStart/Truestart/True start/whatever house brand battery is called (getting old is tough) warranty. I have had mixed results in the past with OEM batteries and was wondering what any first hand experience there was with these batteries.
bloc
SILVER Star
A bit late but I'm personally not a fan of truestart anymore. A friend had two in a row fail in his 4runner in less than a month, and while the one I had in my cruiser operated fine for the ~3 years I had it but the thing kept leaching acid out the top which ruined my new battery terminals. I replaced it with an Interstate and new terminals, that issue is gone.
But, lots of people have had success. As for my friend's failures, toyota replaced both without issue and the third worked well until he sold the vehicle.
I agree it sucks we can't get the original equipment Panasonic. The "best" battery for a given person depends on a number of factors, including their tendency to travel the country, and therefore warranty availability. I have even advocated for Autozone's highest-end FLA units for that reason, for certain owners.
But, lots of people have had success. As for my friend's failures, toyota replaced both without issue and the third worked well until he sold the vehicle.
I agree it sucks we can't get the original equipment Panasonic. The "best" battery for a given person depends on a number of factors, including their tendency to travel the country, and therefore warranty availability. I have even advocated for Autozone's highest-end FLA units for that reason, for certain owners.
Ah, Yeah, having "start" in the name of just about every line of batteries doesn't help. Well, then take my anecdote for whatever it's worth. I have no issues with the OReilly Superstart line. Their Grp31 fleet battery is the same Deka battery that gets recommended a lot. And for me, all the local OReillys have them in stock so easy to replace. I have noticed that this is a regional thing. I was looking at store locations in other parts of the country and they didn't have the same batteries readily available.
not confidence inspiring...great...I was between the truestart and the interstate (costco) actually. I may be eating crow, but I think my call's been made given I just "bought the cow."
Good call on replacing the battery at the first sign of any weakness. IMO, this is the major catalyst to motors and relays failing early as it takes more current and heat to support these inductive loads when voltages sag.
Sorry, just going back through this thread since it's so active right now. What i suspect his mechanic is doing is putting his multimeter between the terminals for each fuse location. As in, he replaces the fuse with his multimeter to measure draw on each circuit. Just different ways of skinning the cat.
Hornd
SILVER Star
Figure out the Drain.....Multi meter in between Battery Post and Cable with Car off. It is as Difficult as Removing the Battery Post (10mm Ratchet Wrench)
Post the Picture of what is on Multi-Meter here.
Get a Noco Jump Starter - Super Handy - $75 During Amazon Prime Week. Your Never Stuck with Dead Battery.
Get a Trickle Charger ($30) - Use it till Drain Issue Figured Out.
Keep your Costco Interstate, as it is likely not the Problem.
I have a Viper Alarm and mine can only go a few weeks before the Battery is Dead.
Post the Picture of what is on Multi-Meter here.
Get a Noco Jump Starter - Super Handy - $75 During Amazon Prime Week. Your Never Stuck with Dead Battery.
Get a Trickle Charger ($30) - Use it till Drain Issue Figured Out.
Keep your Costco Interstate, as it is likely not the Problem.
I have a Viper Alarm and mine can only go a few weeks before the Battery is Dead.
This all reflects my experience with top notch AGM batteries (Northstar) on the 200 platform.All great anecdotes for new comers to this platform. Which has concerns that can be unique. Years ago, I had people literally cussing at me, telling me why their AGMs were superior, and why there's no integration issues. The reality with enough years, is that many of those same adamant individuals have learned first hand with prematurely failed AGMs on this platform. Even as some try to prolong compromised AGMs with constant charger use.
A healthy and well integrated battery does not require weekly plugging into a float charger - as Toyota designed.
Use case matters. Those in colder climates won't as likely experience premature of failures. The temp compensating alternator holds a higher voltage in cold and heat damage isn't as much an issue. Those that use this vehicle as highway overlanding and trip vehicles, keeping the battery on tenders, also won't see as pointed of issues.
The charge curve is absolutely an issue. Why buy an expensive battery but compromise with "good enough" on the integration. Good enough in this case is a big compromise, particularly closer to the edges like hot conditions where the temp compensating alternator is barely putting out 13V. Undercharging and sulfation is real. Otherwise, why would chargers or regulators even bother with different settings and profiles. Because it matters to the overall performance and life of the battery.
Sure, throw a voltage diode in there - see next issue.
A larger problem can be heat for those that live in warmer climates and like to low speed crawl. The engine bay is tight when shoehorning a larger Group 31. It puts the battery right by the hot flow of the radiator heat (fluids at 193°+) and exhaust header. Go lookup any AGM manual, many will say they should avoid charging above 125°. Several of us have measured the heat underhood where it's easily possibly to see in excess of 165°. Temps that will cause venting in a sealed lead acid that is an AGM. Or at minimum have very real impacts to longevity.
To be fair, flooded lead acids can have these issues too, but the designed charge curve gives it the best chance of a long life. Maybe a lost art, but flooded lead acids can have electrolytes replenished by watering.
As an aside, several of us have noted the battery cells closest to the aforementioned heat sources tend to lose more electrolyte. For those that do a lot of off-roading and rock-crawling, or AGM users, adding some insulation may not be a bad idea. OEM vehicles that come with AGMs will generally have a partitioned space away from the hot engine bay.
Starter Battery Heat Shield?
Interesting thing I've noticed a couple times now. I have a larger Group 31 starting battery. Old habit of watering lead acid batteries from my camper. I've noticed consistently that the water level on the cell closest to the motor is lower than the other cells. For normal commuting, this is...forum.ih8mud.com
