The only problem I see with trying to remove material from the shaft is you won't be able to remove it evenly. If it's only that 0.001" difference my vote would be to press or drive it home and don't worry about it. At least you know the shaft would be running as true as it could be.
Bearing help
- Thread starter 1phrogguy
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Most brgs are designed with a slight interference fit. I would check the repair manual to see how the factory recommends installation.
I have rebuilt some aircraft engine and propellers that require the brgs to be heated in an oil bath before installing them.
Just my H O
I have rebuilt some aircraft engine and propellers that require the brgs to be heated in an oil bath before installing them.
Just my H O
stevebradford
In the shop
This was good advice.
Before you go changing/hammering stuff how do these fit?
If they fit well the problem is your bearing.
If they don’t fit then the issue is with the shaft.
After that’s sorted then you can decide what you should do.
Before you go changing/hammering stuff how do these fit?
If they fit well the problem is your bearing.
If they don’t fit then the issue is with the shaft.
After that’s sorted then you can decide what you should do.
Some reference material.
What ever you do, DON'T grind the shaft. It just makes it a boat anchor instead of a part.
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
Anytime I have to deal with press fit, I usually preheat the oven to 350 or 400 degrees, and cook the item for 10 to 15 minutes. The bearing just slides right into place.
@B y r o n :
Note that @1phrogguy states that the interference is 0.010, not 0.001. That sounds like a tight fit to me.
I'd be looking for the specs on the bearing, to see if the one he has meets the dimensional standards. If it does, I'd be looking for a bearing that would fit his shaft and case.
Note that @1phrogguy states that the interference is 0.010, not 0.001. That sounds like a tight fit to me.
I'd be looking for the specs on the bearing, to see if the one he has meets the dimensional standards. If it does, I'd be looking for a bearing that would fit his shaft and case.
Last edited:
thebigredrocker
SILVER Star
Assuming you have the correct bearing and the .10” measurement is incorrect. The guy you hailed, 65swb45, confirmed it is a press fit. Just doesn’t make sense you’d need/want to grind material off.
I believe this comment is also recognition that bearing shouldn’t just slide on/off easy.
I believe this comment is also recognition that bearing shouldn’t just slide on/off easy.
You're right, I misread the difference. There is no way to press on the bearing with a 0.01" difference. Either he mis-stated the difference or he received the wrong or a defective product for his application.
- Thread starter
- #31
Thanks All,
Everything went together without having to smooth down the teeth. Bearing slid straight down and into place, everything is snug and smooth. Had to use puller/sst type to get it there, but it didn't take a lot of effort.
Leaves me wondering why you couldn't cut or sand the teeth down on the last bit of the shaft so the bearing rides easily, on and off. I'm talking about only up to where the bearing rides (basically the area where the spacer is) so there is still an interference type of fit. You might still need a puller to get the TC separated but shouldn't it slide off the output shaft easily if this took place?
School me here guys! If there's more boat anchor comments, please elaborate
Everything went together without having to smooth down the teeth. Bearing slid straight down and into place, everything is snug and smooth. Had to use puller/sst type to get it there, but it didn't take a lot of effort.
Leaves me wondering why you couldn't cut or sand the teeth down on the last bit of the shaft so the bearing rides easily, on and off. I'm talking about only up to where the bearing rides (basically the area where the spacer is) so there is still an interference type of fit. You might still need a puller to get the TC separated but shouldn't it slide off the output shaft easily if this took place?
School me here guys! If there's more boat anchor comments, please elaborate
you
School me here guys! If there's more boat anchor comments, please elaborate
Given how easy a "0.010 interference fit" went together, the first "schooling" you need is how to take accurate measurements.
Given how easy a "0.010 interference fit" went together, the first "schooling" you need is how to take accurate measurements.
And don't be so quick to grind on perfectly good parts.
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Jon
Just to follow up. I pulled @SW20 transmission and tcase out of his 40 Monday for an overhaul. I had to put my 28year old Toyota SST puller on the case because of that same interference fit. This one put the hurt on the SST.
I really don’t know what Mr. T was thinking, but bottom line, most of them are like this.
Just to follow up. I pulled @SW20 transmission and tcase out of his 40 Monday for an overhaul. I had to put my 28year old Toyota SST puller on the case because of that same interference fit. This one put the hurt on the SST.
I really don’t know what Mr. T was thinking, but bottom line, most of them are like this.
Not to start an argument, but -
I've ran into this with other Japanese made driveline parts - it seems they want to remove any chance of those bearings ever spinning inside of a housing and destroying it as a unit. A tight fit to a shaft keeps the bearing spinning with the shaft no matter the load and also helps support the engagement of gear teeth better and carry the opposing parts loads . I suspect a press fit of .010" is not a correct measurement, no offense but that should take a 20 ton press to make it move down the shaft, splined or not. Industry standard press fit is .003"-.005" at most, just fyi - otherwise it would alter the bearing enough to cause it to bind. If you ever press a bearing into a housing and it won't turn easily - you have a problem. Other parts will introduce more drag and it will take oil to help with that , but it should never be stuck to where a wrench or driver is needed - even on rear end gears and those have more opposing thrust force than anything else.
Nearly every Japanese transmission, transfer case or similar I've worked on required pullers and installation tools to remove and install the bearings . Unlike a lot of US made things, which fit in all honesty with a lot more slop - which is why they also run with a lot more noise in those parts. The tolerances are a lot tighter in Japanese-made parts - just look at their engines and wear limits, even on the old straight six.
Sarge
I've ran into this with other Japanese made driveline parts - it seems they want to remove any chance of those bearings ever spinning inside of a housing and destroying it as a unit. A tight fit to a shaft keeps the bearing spinning with the shaft no matter the load and also helps support the engagement of gear teeth better and carry the opposing parts loads . I suspect a press fit of .010" is not a correct measurement, no offense but that should take a 20 ton press to make it move down the shaft, splined or not. Industry standard press fit is .003"-.005" at most, just fyi - otherwise it would alter the bearing enough to cause it to bind. If you ever press a bearing into a housing and it won't turn easily - you have a problem. Other parts will introduce more drag and it will take oil to help with that , but it should never be stuck to where a wrench or driver is needed - even on rear end gears and those have more opposing thrust force than anything else.
Nearly every Japanese transmission, transfer case or similar I've worked on required pullers and installation tools to remove and install the bearings . Unlike a lot of US made things, which fit in all honesty with a lot more slop - which is why they also run with a lot more noise in those parts. The tolerances are a lot tighter in Japanese-made parts - just look at their engines and wear limits, even on the old straight six.
Sarge
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Kevin
My world of automotive knowledge is limited to vintage Landcruisers. Granted I have found those principles have crossed over to all the other vehicles I’ve had to work on since I started with the Landcruisers four decades ago. But the base is in the LCs.
The 3speed setup is the exact opposite of what you just described. Not only will the case just about fall off the transmission once unbolted, the tailshaft of the trans will fall out of the transmission case far enough for the needle bearings in the input gear to fall out if you’re not careful.
The 81 and newer split cases don’t FALL off, but neither are they bound up like the 74-80. The Muncies that I’ve worked with, and the Advanced Adapter spudshafts are not this tight either. JUST the 74-80.
Hence MY perspective.
That makes sense and not at all uncommon - it's all about the weight of the parts and the design of the gears. Any gears that are straight cut teeth need more "slop" to keep them from binding - helical cut gears need a tighter shaft limit to prevent them from chewing each other up. There are a lot of examples of shaft setups with loose bearings and tolerances that are so loose you wonder how they live so long - it's the way they are designed. Most of the general Japanese parts just have a tighter fit due to how they engineered the internals. Use the "usual" specs on any Japanese engines that most machine shops practice on other engines results in building a brand new, but worn out engine. Been there, done that - if you don't set things by their books you build a paperweight. I've fought pretty hard with some machine shops about ring gaps and many other things - their argument about the rings being pre-lapped and end gapped by the factory doesn't fly when you build a 9,000 rpm Suzuki engine, it will never build proper compression and it can destroy itself in a hurry. Look at late-model Toyota engines and how they use a system of carefully chosen shims to set valve lash - it will drive you nuts doing it but they dumb things will run forever if you put in the work and care for them. The old straight sixes of ours are just overbuilt and over simplified, it's 1940's technology but it works.
My only point is this - use the guidlines in the factory service manual and only Japanese sourced parts, otherwise you'll fight everything with different manufacturer's opinions about tolerances. Yes, those parts are more expensive, but they fit as designed and last far longer. I always hated shelling out the coin for identical brand bearings for rebuilds as well as other hard parts - but in the end it goes together per spec and gives less trouble later. This stuff is not like Chevy, nor their loose design tolerances that are so common - so it's no surprise that bearing is a press fit onto that shaft and I'd never consider any alterations to make it fit otherwise, it's just a bad idea. Many of the SST's Toyota designed are not totally necessary - but some will become very evidently important when doing a rebuild on a part that normally would be easy on anything from another maker. Your picture of using a puller to extract that bearing is a great example, without it that job would be no fun.
Sarge
My only point is this - use the guidlines in the factory service manual and only Japanese sourced parts, otherwise you'll fight everything with different manufacturer's opinions about tolerances. Yes, those parts are more expensive, but they fit as designed and last far longer. I always hated shelling out the coin for identical brand bearings for rebuilds as well as other hard parts - but in the end it goes together per spec and gives less trouble later. This stuff is not like Chevy, nor their loose design tolerances that are so common - so it's no surprise that bearing is a press fit onto that shaft and I'd never consider any alterations to make it fit otherwise, it's just a bad idea. Many of the SST's Toyota designed are not totally necessary - but some will become very evidently important when doing a rebuild on a part that normally would be easy on anything from another maker. Your picture of using a puller to extract that bearing is a great example, without it that job would be no fun.
Sarge
