Build Another Prado in Montana

[AirheadNut]

TDI Phase 2 has officially begun! The friend who bought the 6-speed Passat got in touch the other day and told me that a mutual friend had another BHW TDI that he was looking to get rid of. This one is a junkyard engine with 126k miles, it came with a complete wiring harness, ECU, and pretty much all accessories. The engine was found sitting in a heap of engines at a local wrecking yard, so some of the plastic parts are damaged but overall it looks like it has fairly solid bones. I'll tear into it over the next few weeks and determine if it is worth building up for the Prado, if not I can always fall back on the original donor.

 

[AirheadNut]

Started to take stock of everything that came with the donor engine and what all is broken or damaged. The list is still growing, but this is what I've come up with so far:
- Valve cover
- Oil filter cap
- Dipstick tube
- Dipstick
- Front upper timing cover
- Rear upper timing cover
- Various coolant hard lines (may not need to replace all of these since they might end up as custom hoses)
- Alternator
- Serpentine belt tensioner and idler pulleys
- Power steering pump
- Power steering pump pulley
- AC compressor (currently missing)
- Thermostat

It will also need a different oil pan, full timing belt service, BSM delete, EGR delete and rear coolant flange. Still debating if I should bite the bullet and replace the tandem pump and injector harness, both of which would be very hard to service once the engine is installed.

Of course, all of this is contingent on the engine being ok internally, I still need to reset the timing belt and make sure the engine turns over smoothly. I borrowed a crank lock tool from a friend but then accidentally sent my cam lock tool to my brother with some other VW service tools, so it will probably be a week or more till I have that back.

Managed to put in a little work on one of the damaged coolant lines, I think it will be salvageable.

 

[Rigster]

Started to take stock of everything that came with the donor engine and what all is broken or damaged. The list is still growing, but this is what I've come up with so far:
- Valve cover
- Oil filter cap
- Dipstick tube
- Dipstick
- Front upper timing cover
- Rear upper timing cover
- Various coolant hard lines (may not need to replace all of these since they might end up as custom hoses)
- Alternator
- Serpentine belt tensioner and idler pulleys
- Power steering pump
- Power steering pump pulley
- AC compressor (currently missing)
- Thermostat

It will also need a different oil pan, full timing belt service, BSM delete, EGR delete and rear coolant flange. Still debating if I should bite the bullet and replace the tandem pump and injector harness, both of which would be very hard to service once the engine is installed.

Of course, all of this is contingent on the engine being ok internally, I still need to reset the timing belt and make sure the engine turns over smoothly. I borrowed a crank lock tool from a friend but then accidentally sent my cam lock tool to my brother with some other VW service tools, so it will probably be a week or more till I have that back.

Managed to put in a little work on one of the damaged coolant lines, I think it will be salvageable.
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Very kewl! Let me know how you find the Pump-Duse style. Not as easily modified as far as injectors, etc I have never had a tandem pump fail for the fuel side of things, it has ALWAYS been the vacuum pump that went first. You could test the vacuum on it, but if that means installing the engine first, you are right, it might be easier to just replace it beforehand. The Piersburg (OEM) ones are not cheap though...

I just finished getting my sons BEW all fixed up for him to get to school and back about an hour away. I also replaced my turbo in my BRM over the holidays just to have to pull it and send it back as it had a low RPM constant squeek to it. Waiting on a replacement.

I truly hope this powerplant you have found works out well for the PRADO!!

 

[AirheadNut]

Very kewl! Let me know how you find the Pump-Duse style. Not as easily modified as far as injectors, etc I have never had a tandem pump fail for the fuel side of things, it has ALWAYS been the vacuum pump that went first. You could test the vacuum on it, but if that means installing the engine first, you are right, it might be easier to just replace it beforehand. The Piersburg (OEM) ones are not cheap though...

I just finished getting my sons BEW all fixed up for him to get to school and back about an hour away. I also replaced my turbo in my BRM over the holidays just to have to pull it and send it back as it had a low RPM constant squeek to it. Waiting on a replacement.

I truly hope this powerplant you have found works out well for the PRADO!!

I don’t have much hands on experience with PD engines yet, but that’s about to change! Good to know about the tandem pumps, this one only has 126k miles on it so I’ll probably take a chance on it for now. I’ll probably try to start the engine on a stand just to make sure it’s all good to go before installing it, that would be a good time to check vacuum.

Injector upgrades are available but a lot more expensive than VE injectors, and given that I’m only shooting for 160-170hp the stock ones should work just fine which is fortunate.

Bummer about your turbo, that’s not a fun job to have to do twice. Hopefully the supplier makes it right.

 

[Rigster]

I don’t have much hands on experience with PD engines yet, but that’s about to change! Good to know about the tandem pumps, this one only has 126k miles on it so I’ll probably take a chance on it for now. I’ll probably try to start the engine on a stand just to make sure it’s all good to go before installing it, that would be a good time to check vacuum.

Injector upgrades are available but a lot more expensive than VE injectors, and given that I’m only shooting for 160-170hp the stock ones should work just fine which is fortunate.

Bummer about your turbo, that’s not a fun job to have to do twice. Hopefully the supplier makes it right.

Yeah that kind of power should be no problem with stock injectors.

One thing I would strongly recommend would be to inspect the cam and followers for the exhaust valves. They typically wear down around 180,000 miles give or take. I just did mine in my BRM @180,000 miles. The BEW's tend to last longer (not as aggressive), but I do not have any experience with the BHW's. If you are doing the timing belt anyways, it would make sense to check the cam. If there is any dishing already in the exhaust followers, I would just do it while it is on the stand.

Yes, the supplier has been really great about the return on the new turbo so that is one less thing to worry about... but it does not remove the sting of the car tying up the garage for an extra 2 weeks and not being able to drive it....

 

[AirheadNut]

Yeah that kind of power should be no problem with stock injectors.

One thing I would strongly recommend would be to inspect the cam and followers for the exhaust valves. They typically wear down around 180,000 miles give or take. I just did mine in my BRM @180,000 miles. The BEW's tend to last longer (not as aggressive), but I do not have any experience with the BHW's. If you are doing the timing belt anyways, it would make sense to check the cam. If there is any dishing already in the exhaust followers, I would just do it while it is on the stand.

Yes, the supplier has been really great about the return on the new turbo so that is one less thing to worry about... but it does not remove the sting of the car tying up the garage for an extra 2 weeks and not being able to drive it....

That's the plan, while everything is apart I'll pull the cam and thoroughly inspect the lobes and lifters. The cam/lifter wear is a common problem with the BHW as well, it seems like running fancy oil really helps.

 

[AirheadNut]

Anyone have any tips for cleaning wiring harnesses? I've got the complete engine harness for the donor engine but it's filthy, I'd like to get it reasonably cleaned up before I start pulling it apart.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

I usually spray stuff like that down with Simple Green, or Gunk engine degreaser.

The gel stuff if it's thick!

Then I follow up with a wet(ish) rag to clean up the mess and residual cleaner.

 

[AirheadNut]

Had a three day weekend so I decided to head up into the mountains to do a bit of exploring. Snowfall has been very slim so far this winter, so a lot of places are accessible that normally would not be at this time of year.

Visited the Fort Logan blockhouse, built in 1869 on the Smith River and moved to its current location 10 miles away a year later.

Next up was the remains of the mining camp of Watson, MT. Not much left there but a couple of cabins, a small barn and an outhouse.

There was also an old, stone lined well. Hard to see the bottom but probably around 30 feet deep. Those old prospectors were pretty good at dry stacking stone.

 

[AirheadNut]

Unfortunately the trip was cut short when I suddenly lost boost while pulling a steep, icy hill. At first I thought it might be a random limp mode issue so I cycled the key, but that didn't help. The problem was pretty obvious once I checked under the hood:

The turbo actuator and bracket had broken off completely and were just dangling from the vacuum line. Two of the three bolts were long gone, the bracket broke just before the third. I managed to steal one bolt off the power steering reservoir mount and one off a rubber hood bump stop to get the actuator bracket bolted back in place. Decided that it was probably wiser not to spend the next day and a half bouncing around on rough forest roads with a cobbled together turbo, so I headed back to town. The turbo is still working, but definitely losing some drive pressure out the seam between the CHRA and the turbine housing. Took it nice and easy on the throttle on the way home to avoid making the problem any worse or triggering an underboost code.

 

[AirheadNut]

Huge shout out to @3_puppies for lending me his monster engine stand. I finally got the TDI mounted up on it this afternoon and was able to have a good look at the cam and lifters.

The cam lobes still show full chamfer around the edges but are beginning to exhibit a slight wood grain effect on the tips of the lobes, which indicates initial stages of wear.

Lifters are also showing a bit of wear, again not bad but there are some circular wear marks and what appear to be a couple of initial spider cracks. Pretty hard to get in there under the cam and clean the oil off the lifter surface, especially at 10ºF.

The overall wear isn't terrible but given the tendency these engines have a new cam and lifters will be installed. Before ordering any parts I'll pull the cylinder head and check for any valve to piston contact and measure piston protrusion to make sure the bottom end and valves are ok. If all that checks out I'll start ordering parts!

 

[AirheadNut]

Pulled the cylinder head off last night. Overall it looks pretty good inside, there is some evidence of valves touching pistons but it looks to me like it is just from trying to turn the engine over by hand when stuff was caught in the timing belt. Doesn't look like there is any actual damage, I'll probably check piston protrusion and make sure all the valves still seal properly but so far it is looking good.

Cylinder 1:

Cylinder 3:

 

[AirheadNut]

Worked on cleaning up the deck and piston crowns this evening. To my relief once I had cleaned the grime off the pistons there was absolutely no evidence of valve collisions. I also poured a bit of acetone into the ports on the head, all valves held liquid when closed. I'm pretty confident at this point that I'll be able to put a new cam and lifters in and reassemble the engine with no further internal work.

 

[aidendr]

Worked on cleaning up the deck and piston crowns this evening. To my relief once I had cleaned the grime off the pistons there was absolutely no evidence of valve collisions. I also poured a bit of acetone into the ports on the head, all valves held liquid when closed. I'm pretty confident at this point that I'll be able to put a new cam and lifters in and reassemble the engine with no further internal work.
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Beautiful prado, bit off topic but are you running spacers on your rear wheels? If so what size? Thanks.

 

[AirheadNut]

Beautiful prado, bit off topic but are you running spacers on your rear wheels? If so what size? Thanks.

Thanks! No wheel spacers, I'm still running the original 16x6 ET0 wheels with 235/85R16 tires.

 

[AirheadNut]

Worked on cleaning up the mating surface of the head, the carbon came off pretty easily with some mineral spirits, a brass brush and a razor blade.

Also burned the carbon out of the intake manifold, it wasn't too bad to begin with but I'd rather be putting clean parts back on the engine.

I started a thread over at TDIClub to document the TDI-specific aspects of this project in greater detail, will continue to update this thread as well.

 

[AirheadNut]

More cleaning and disassembly today. A small brass brush, a toothbrush and some mineral spirits made a dent in the grime on the block. Will be nice to have a relatively clean engine to work with during the install.

Got the cylinder head up on the bench and pulled the injector rocker shafts and the cam. Lower cam bearings have a fair bit of wear, which I understand to be normal for the Pumpe Düse TDI's. Lifters have mild circular wear patterns, but the cam actually looks better than I was expecting.

This is the worst of the cam lobes, no wear on the chamfered edges of the lobes, just a small spot of woodgrain looking wear on the tip of the lobe.

At this point I'm thinking I might replace the bearings and lifters (new lifters are nitrided and much more resistant to wear than the factory ones), run the cam as-is and just keep an eye on it. Easy enough to pull the valve cover once a year or so and have a look at the cam lobes.

 

[AirheadNut]

Cylinder head is back on! Cam bearings are backordered so it will be a couple of weeks until I can put everything back together. I'll stick the broken valve cover back on to keep the dust out until the rest of the parts arrive.

 

[AirheadNut]

A used valve cover and one of the missing timing covers arrived yesterday, they were a bit oily but nothing a bit of degreaser and a brush couldn't fix.

With the cylinder head back on I just had to test fit the turbo. I took some rough measurements and compared them to the engine bay in the Prado, I think it will work pretty well with an additional 1.5" of firewall clearance from a new adapter plate and the engine mounted at around 0º instead of 15º.

The rest of the afternoon was spent sorting through the harness. None of the plugs were labeled so I had to go through and compare wire colors and pin count to the VW diagrams. Got all the engine side plugs identified but still need to figure out the plugs for the relay block.

 

[LJRay]

… working outdoors in Montana in February…

… they breed ‘em tough up north …