(Another) Front suspension noise/steering rack question

[linuxgod]

I would ck with Slee for replacement parts (I'm sure they have lots) and their experience with the bushings.

When the faulty bushings are installed, they look and feel just like any other we have installed for many years but after getting compressed and rebound the bushings act more like old latex rubber tubing and may have parted ways. My rear lower ARB shock mount bushings reminded me of Silly Putty when I was trouble shooting the "clunk". Rob had some pictures of augered out frames after the bushings departed on some of the trucks he had worked on. I would inspect the frame with a mirror, replace and secure the new bushings and treat that area and the other 3 shock mount assembly's like a preventive mx inspection item.

I emailed Slee. I suspect the BP51s don't use these as the spring presses against the coilover perch and not the top of the strut tower. (Plus the ARB install doc doesn't short any sort of insulator as a part and I don't see one in any of their photos as best I can tell).

 

[bloc]

Chicago (especially) and the adjoining suburbs are just abusive. The city really beats on suspension. I mean, this kind of stuff below is NORMAL here. At least they finally milled the "speed bumps" on Lake Shore Drive - strips where the asphalt had spiked upwards because of frost upheaval pushing the pipes upward so at the 40mph speed limit your vehicle would literally leave the ground for a split second and would feel like a boxer punching you in the steering wheel over and over.

First photo is the merge lane from LSD to upper Wacker

View attachment 3543136

Note sure where this is (maybe west loop) but it's also typical. It will be "fixed" at some point by overfilling the potholes, but then it's still an uneven bumpy mess for years until they finally mill and repave.
View attachment 3543137 View attachment 3543138

Not sure whether the claim that landcruisers were designed for a service life in Africa would prepare it for a city full of the above..

And yes mine has had an easy life other than the times playing in gravel.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

Oh man this sucks to read. I've always had a weird occasional metallic sound that had almost a resonance that made it seem like a spring was involved. It happens when backing out of my driveway turning on the street coming off the curb and hwen I make a 90 degree turn on a street where the turn takes me up a bump. Rarely hear it offroad in similar scenarios/flex. I've been pretending I didn't hear it for 4 years, so it must not be too bad. Will be interesting to see if it goes away when I move to Dobinsons MRRs later this year.

 

[linuxgod]

Oh man this sucks to read. I've always had a weird occasional metallic sound that had almost a resonance that made it seem like a spring was involved. It happens when backing out of my driveway turning on the street coming off the curb and hwen I make a 90 degree turn on a street where the turn takes me up a bump. Rarely hear it offroad in similar scenarios/flex. I've been pretending I didn't hear it for 4 years, so it must not be too bad. Will be interesting to see if it goes away when I move to Dobinsons MRRs later this year.

If my steering wasn't off and wandering I probably would have lived with the noise for a while until it got worse. Mine was consistent and reproducible though. It wasn't the noise so much that bothered me, but being sure that in my case something was wearing and sooner or later something will give out and cause a MUCH more expensive (and extensive) repair.

If yours is rare and has gone on 4 years I suspect it's some very minor contact or binding only happening when there's some twisting going on and you've got enough weight being tossed sideways. And to your point I didn't hear it when we were offroading for days last summer. Entirely likely new struts/coilovers up front will resolve it, but if not I'd probably start looking at sway bar or end link bushings

 

[TeCKis300]

Not sure whether the claim that landcruisers were designed for a service life in Africa would prepare it for a city full of the above..

And yes mine has had an easy life other than the times playing in gravel.

To be fair, we use them rather differently here and perhaps push these vehicles sometimes harder? I mean, I know I like to aim for speedbumps and other things, sometime spiritedly, just for fun?

On the list of steering rack loads we like to add

1. Big tires
2. Heavy overlanding weights
3. Aggressive offsets
4. Lift with higher spring rates

Mix in all the above at once in this hobby of rocklanding.

 

[aptos]

I have a similar metallic pop; it is infrequent and hard to reproduce on my LC. It happens occasionally when turning hard and I’ve only heard it 3-4x in my year and a half of ownership. I have relatively new Dobinsons MRA, Dobinsons UCA, OEM LCA, sway bar end links, and sway bar D bushings, which maybe points to the steering rack for me. I’m not too concerned about it yet but I am interested in hearing what solves it for you

 

[linuxgod]

I have a similar metallic pop; it is infrequent and hard to reproduce on my LC. It happens occasionally when turning hard and I’ve only heard it 3-4x in my year and a half of ownership. I have relatively new Dobinsons MRA, Dobinsons UCA, OEM LCA, sway bar end links, and sway bar D bushings, which maybe points to the steering rack for me. I’m not too concerned about it yet but I am interested in hearing what solves it for you

The steering rack seems to have solved it for me. Keep in mind the rack included inner and outer tie rods, so I don’t know which of the 3 parts were bad. The dealer said the tie rods were right with no slop, and the steering rack was leaking so it needed to be replaced, but if it was just the pop I’m not 100% sure it want just a tie rod end binding in some position.

If it’s occasional I would not worry at this time. Mine was reproducible, happened every time I’d pull in and out of a garage or enter a driveway with a bit of an angle while turning. I also felt my steering was imprecise (though there wasn’t any actual slop) and the truck was wandering a bit on the highway. Sint was clear something was off

I do think I need LCA bushing as well eventually. There’s a little bit of correction required when driving which I’m sure shouldn’t be there. Just not sure I want to drop $750 on the parts plus alignment and spend the day dealing with it since it’s not subtle. And LCAs are really the only thing original in my 150k suspension.

 

[aptos]

The steering rack seems to have solved it for me. Keep in mind the rack included inner and outer tie rods, so I don’t know which of the 3 parts were bad. The dealer said the tie rods were right with no slop, and the steering rack was leaking so it needed to be replaced, but if it was just the pop I’m not 100% sure it want just a tie rod end binding in some position.

If it’s occasional I would not worry at this time. Mine was reproducible, happened every time I’d pull in and out of a garage or enter a driveway with a bit of an angle while turning. I also felt my steering was imprecise (though there wasn’t any actual slop) and the truck was wandering a bit on the highway. Sint was clear something was off

I do think I need LCA bushing as well eventually. There’s a little bit of correction required when driving which I’m sure shouldn’t be there. Just not sure I want to drop $750 on the parts plus alignment and spend the day dealing with it since it’s not subtle. And LCAs are really the only thing original in my 150k suspension.

New LCAs were a big improvement on my LC, but I had them installed while everything was disassembled getting cam tab gussets and I payed about $450 shipped for the arms during the parts sale. Steering feels really nice after the recent work but if things start to get worse, I will know where to start looking. Thanks!

 

[linuxgod]

New LCAs were a big improvement on my LC, but I had them installed while everything was disassembled getting cam tab gussets and I payed about $450 shipped for the arms during the parts sale. Steering feels really nice after the recent work but if things start to get worse, I will know where to start looking. Thanks!

Good to know. My steering is tight now, and "heavier" than it was before. I'll get a trip up the highway to Wisconsin this weekend so I'll see how it handles outside of the city. If I still have any wander they'll be next and I'll keep an eye out for a good sale. I imagine I can do the LCAs in my garage in an afternoon, and if I think I have copious free time before the summer I might try, but I have a punch list right now of about 2 dozen things to do which include tracing why my rear fuse block isn't seeing the correct voltage, installing a panhard rod relo kit, RLCA skids, and rear shock mounts, and building together a removable secondary platform for a fridge. If (when) I'm running low on time, easier to pay pretty much any shop 2 hours of labor to swap them while I'm working one weekday and don't need the truck than to have them do almost anything else on my punch list

 

[isthatalexus]

For me, the clack/click while turning/twisting going on or off driveways (or offroad) tends to be the +/- 1,000 lbs of Budbuilt steel and assorted fasteners underneath. Dissapears when skids come off. I've also had (still have) the issue of grease movement creating a clunk in the steering column (telescoping slip shaft), but that's a different deal.

 

[linuxgod]

So annoyingly the noise (or one that's very similar) seems to have returned. It's a metallic popping sound that seems to happen when turning at low speed, particularly when entering a driveway (or my garage). It had gone away after my steering rack was replaced, but the sound recently returned... and seems to be a bit worse after running trails in Moab. Where I'm currently at:

1. My passenger's side BP51 preload is set at 8 threads while the driver's side is at 10 thread (above the ring). I assume Slee did this intentionally but I will call them next week to see if this is "normal". Otherwise I don't think it's the BP51s, unless the spring is moving on the coilover perch, which is why I'm curious. I've had the BPs for ~12k miles.
2. I get the noise without front skid plates (pulled it to straighten after Moab).
3. I didn't remove the transmission or transfer case skids but the noise definitely sounds like it comes from somewhere up front.
4. I had a new steering rack (with tie rods) installed a few months back when the power steering was leaking.
5. I have new front sway bar end links also done about 15k miles ago as those bushing were shot
6. New SPC UCA ball joints were done about 15k miles ago
7. Front bearings were done ~80k miles ago, and are quiet.
8. Tires are ~6-7k old I believe. Just rotated. No contact anywhere, this isn't anything rubbing.
9. CVs seem fine, it's not a regular click, just a metallic pop that happens once as I turn and the suspension moves a little bit.
10. New LCAs done this week. The bushings were going and I was hoping this was the source of the noise, but no.

Some of the Tundra forums have pointed to loose body mounts, though I'm really not sure how to tell if they are too loose. I put a wrench on the front ones and with a lot of force could make maybe 1/8 turn. I don't have a deep socket but may order one just to retorque them all, though I can't find a torque spec for these. Outside of that I'm out of ideas.

One other oddity, when the LCA was done this week they realigned the truck. Caster was set to 3.4* on both sides, camber was 0.3*, and there's ~0.12* of toe. However the steering wheel wants to point to about 12:30 (slightly right) even driving down the center of the road so I have neutral road crown impact. In my experience how much pull the truck has seems to vary. It's almost always had some pull to the right for years now (except for when Slee did the alignment last summer, and other than 0.2* more caster on the right and camber which was 0 instead of 0.3* positive the alignment is essentially the same). It's entirely possible the lack of cross-caster makes it feel worse, and I could have that added, but given it almost always pulls a bit right it's annoying me (and honestly kind of fatiguing for cross-country drives) nonetheless to have to keep my steering wheel cocked at 11:30 to compensate.

 

[linuxgod]

For anyone wondering, front most body mounts below. The upper section of the driver's side one seems "collapsed" to me, but maybe that's normal?

Passenger's side front mount

Driver's side

 

[tbisaacs]

Any chance it could be diff or transfer case bushings? Things moving around and clanging?

 

[TLC2013]

Any chance it could be diff or transfer case bushings? Things moving around and clanging?

Good call, @linuxgod aren’t you also running a diff drop ? Could also be something to investigate for causing that noise up front. I have definitely heard similar sounds to yours but it ended up being loose skid plates (Budbuilt engine and tranny).

 

[linuxgod]

Good call, @linuxgod aren’t you also running a diff drop ? Could also be something to investigate for causing that noise up front. I have definitely heard similar sounds to yours but it ended up being loose skid plates (Budbuilt engine and tranny).

It could be anything, I suppose. But it doesn't happen except when I'm turning and on a slight incline like entering a driveway. Rocking the vehicle on the ground doesn't cause it though, and even driving it doesn't happen every time.

When I pulled my front skid plate this weekend to see if that was it I checked the front two diff bolts and they were tight. Ditto for the steering rack bolts. I'm not feeling it in the steering wheel or drivetrain when this happens, FWIW. Suspension bolts are tight.

My skid bolts are tight to the point where I'd probably strip the threads in the frame if I go much further. And I added some rubber spacers in a few places this weekend which didn't make a difference.

 

[bloc]

I vaguely remember reading about people having issues with the lower end of BP51s popping under certain conditions.

Yours are pretty new so this would surprise me but.. worth looking into?

 

[JohnJB]

I vaguely remember reading about people having issues with the lower end of BP51s popping under certain conditions.

Yours are pretty new so this would surprise me but.. worth looking into?

@linuxgod I had a similar thought as @bloc, but as someone who has replaced the spherical bearings on my BP51s, your description doesn’t sound like what I experienced. FWIW you have the larger, Teflon bearings whereas I have an earlier set that doesn’t use those. That said, I could create my sound by jumping up and down on my front bumper. If you want to look into this, I’d suggest using a floor jack and quickly dropping each side of the truck. In my case it wasn’t a very metallic sound, more crunchy, and I first erroneously replaced the poly bushings in my UCAs. So maybe not helpful but something else you could rule out.

 

[linuxgod]

I vaguely remember reading about people having issues with the lower end of BP51s popping under certain conditions.

Yours are pretty new so this would surprise me but.. worth looking into?

Ive heard that too on early models. I don’t think it’s the BP51s since normal bouncing over speed bumps and potholes is quiet

 

[linuxgod]

@linuxgod I had a similar thought as @bloc, but as someone who has replaced the spherical bearings on my BP51s, your description doesn’t sound like what I experienced. FWIW you have the larger, Teflon bearings whereas I have an earlier set that doesn’t use those. That said, I could create my sound by jumping up and down on my front bumper. If you want to look into this, I’d suggest using a floor jack and quickly dropping each side of the truck. In my case it wasn’t a very metallic sound, more crunchy, and I first erroneously replaced the poly bushings in my UCAs. So maybe not helpful but something else you could rule out.

Thanks. This is definitely a short metallic pop. I might try to “drop” the truck to see if I can recreate it, but so far jumping on the bumper and sliders does nothing to recreate it

 

[bloc]

KDSS arm bolts tight and bushings in good shape?