I know you took pictures. Hard to believe both FJs broke at the same spot.
Allright Rick lets see the carnage
- Thread starter Trollhole
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I can speak a little to it.
We were on trail 93B, which is the only really hard trail at Beasley when it is dry (when it is wet they are all hard). There is a small rock garden that leads to a rock ledge on the left and a stump on the right. There are two lines...go far right and hook left up the ledge, or stay right and go over the stump's roots.
Rick took the right line, got over, then started digging in the soil with no progress due to nothing more than the insane grade of the hill...it really is that steep. This continued and then we heard a pop, followed by a machine gun sound. That was Rick's ring gear shedding about 8 teeth in the rear.
Dave came up behind Rick and took the same line, but didn't even make it past the stump before his grenaded...and he wasn't really hitting it that hard. He lost 5 teeth in the rear ring gear. The grade was VERY steep, the trucks were unloaded in the front and all on the rear axle.
Sylvain tried the left line over the ledge and made it. I think his heavy ARB played into his ability to go up...his front end is heavier.
So, we had two trucks broken...sucks. We tested to see what was up, and the locker was suspect, but it sounded more and more like a diff problem. We dropped driveshafts and started winching. Rick got a strap from the Avocado, followed by a crazy ride/winch fest to the top of the hill. I pulled him over all but a few areas that were just too steep to strap over.
Dave winched and turned around and went back down.
Dave and Rick both headed to town once we were out and setup with newly purchased jack stands in the Home Depot parking lot. Then we got dirty. We tore down both rear axles, removed the ring gears, and reassembled. We left the e-brake off since we were out of light and knew we would be back in later to fix it.
Thanks to Heather, Marshall, JP, and Robbie for helping us out. It was a long day (11AM to 1AM) but we got the job done, everyone got home on their own power, and we learned a lot.
We were on trail 93B, which is the only really hard trail at Beasley when it is dry (when it is wet they are all hard). There is a small rock garden that leads to a rock ledge on the left and a stump on the right. There are two lines...go far right and hook left up the ledge, or stay right and go over the stump's roots.
Rick took the right line, got over, then started digging in the soil with no progress due to nothing more than the insane grade of the hill...it really is that steep. This continued and then we heard a pop, followed by a machine gun sound. That was Rick's ring gear shedding about 8 teeth in the rear.
Dave came up behind Rick and took the same line, but didn't even make it past the stump before his grenaded...and he wasn't really hitting it that hard. He lost 5 teeth in the rear ring gear. The grade was VERY steep, the trucks were unloaded in the front and all on the rear axle.
Sylvain tried the left line over the ledge and made it. I think his heavy ARB played into his ability to go up...his front end is heavier.
So, we had two trucks broken...sucks. We tested to see what was up, and the locker was suspect, but it sounded more and more like a diff problem. We dropped driveshafts and started winching. Rick got a strap from the Avocado, followed by a crazy ride/winch fest to the top of the hill. I pulled him over all but a few areas that were just too steep to strap over.
Dave winched and turned around and went back down.
Dave and Rick both headed to town once we were out and setup with newly purchased jack stands in the Home Depot parking lot. Then we got dirty. We tore down both rear axles, removed the ring gears, and reassembled. We left the e-brake off since we were out of light and knew we would be back in later to fix it.
Thanks to Heather, Marshall, JP, and Robbie for helping us out. It was a long day (11AM to 1AM) but we got the job done, everyone got home on their own power, and we learned a lot.
I just saw Rick and talked to Dave on the phone. It seems that both were locked in the rear at the time and not using ATRAC. Dave and Rick are both considering scrapping the OEM setup and going with something more stout. I am sure Rick will post up pics when he becomes less pickled with Sailor Jerry!
still pickled, post more later. Thanks to all who gave Dan & us the knowledge to get rolling again. sleep now.
UGHHHHHHH. Looks like I'm a making a call into Ralph Hayes Toyota!
Rick... I'm new to the board (and FJs - a converted Jeep guy) Chuck told me about the carnage - he called from Home Depot! I offered to head up with tools, etc. but after looking at the pics, you guys had it all under control.
Man, I sure as hell hope the dealer doesn't give you a hard time - they should cover every bit of that without question. Before I bought my FJ (last week) I was commenting on the 66 page brochure that doesn't show a single street shot of the FJ. In fact, they have pics of FJs on 35s, crossing the Golden Crack, etc. I thought, damn - good luck denying a warranty claim after distributing this...
Toyota clearly supports the modification and "use" of this truck - the dealer damn sure better... keep us posted.
-Mark
Man, I sure as hell hope the dealer doesn't give you a hard time - they should cover every bit of that without question. Before I bought my FJ (last week) I was commenting on the 66 page brochure that doesn't show a single street shot of the FJ. In fact, they have pics of FJs on 35s, crossing the Golden Crack, etc. I thought, damn - good luck denying a warranty claim after distributing this...
Toyota clearly supports the modification and "use" of this truck - the dealer damn sure better... keep us posted.
-Mark
ClemsonCruiser
Supporting Vendor
Yep......... that should be under warranty Rick
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I look forward to seeing you and Kat out in Ouray!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I look forward to seeing you and Kat out in Ouray!!!!!!!!!!
I talked with Rick Arflin and he surmised that Toyota would not cover it. I went ahead and ordered the parts, but I guess I could still try to make a claim with the service department. Rick said he couldn't speak directly to how they would treat it, but his opinion was that they would not cover it under warranty since it happened off road.
For me, I'm on a time table and don't have the luxury of drawing this out any longer than absolutely necessary. Rick should have the part by tomorrow or Wed.
Interestingly enough he said there are two part numbers for the assembly depending on the production date of your vehicle. He didn't know why, but early model year versions are listed as a different part (Ahem, Heather & Dave).
For me, I'm on a time table and don't have the luxury of drawing this out any longer than absolutely necessary. Rick should have the part by tomorrow or Wed.
Interestingly enough he said there are two part numbers for the assembly depending on the production date of your vehicle. He didn't know why, but early model year versions are listed as a different part (Ahem, Heather & Dave).
Did he give you any idea on the production date cut off of the two part numbers? Mine is just over a year old and I would hate to go through what you are dealing with. I can't imagine what the difference might be...
While I don't entirely agree with the way this is heading, I can't say I am surprised. I've been waiting to see how cases like this play out at the FJs get more trail time and as a result, more breakage. I have a feeling there are some impending peeing contests between dealers / Toy and owners who use the vehicle as advertised.
Good luck getting things worked out and back in order.
They should cover it end of story.....................
I heard from a very reliable source that Toyota "discovered" that the ring gear supplier was not doing the heat/cryo treating process specified by Toyota. (He may have said the "cryo" process.... I don't recall the word he used.) That error was corrected after Toyota became aware of these ring gears failing on the trail.
I have no knowledge or information on warranty replacement. I didn't ask, though in retrospect, I should have.
-B-
Well, I called my service writer here in ATL and Rick C. has been on the phone with him today. He's going to look at Rick's FJ tomorrow AM to see what he thinks about warranty.
I have mixed emotions about this. Yes, Toyota does market this truck off road...in brochures, with the TT, websites, etc. So that being said, I think they have a responsibility to fix stuff that breaks.
However, I do think if an owner is wheeling, they have to be ready to take responsibililty for their breakage. And I think that Rick and Dave are more than willing to accept that responsibility. Heck, Rick put a good gash in his door and he's perfectly OK with that. And for those of you that haven't seen Dave's fender...well
.
Now, on the other forum, there is a guy that has been baja-ing his FJ and the front of the the truck is cracking off. Not kidding...actual cracks in the body and the front end is falling forward. He admits to jumping it 4-6 feet in the air on a regular basis. That, to me, is his bad and is not appropriate use and should not be a warranty repair.
Now, in this situation, since there were 2 FJ's, exact same location and same equipment, and they were really just going up a hill (granted a big one) but nothing out of the ordinary and not something that hasn't been done before, I see this as a design flaw and think the responsibility is on Toyota.
I have mixed emotions about this. Yes, Toyota does market this truck off road...in brochures, with the TT, websites, etc. So that being said, I think they have a responsibility to fix stuff that breaks.
However, I do think if an owner is wheeling, they have to be ready to take responsibililty for their breakage. And I think that Rick and Dave are more than willing to accept that responsibility. Heck, Rick put a good gash in his door and he's perfectly OK with that. And for those of you that haven't seen Dave's fender...well
.Now, on the other forum, there is a guy that has been baja-ing his FJ and the front of the the truck is cracking off. Not kidding...actual cracks in the body and the front end is falling forward. He admits to jumping it 4-6 feet in the air on a regular basis. That, to me, is his bad and is not appropriate use and should not be a warranty repair.
Now, in this situation, since there were 2 FJ's, exact same location and same equipment, and they were really just going up a hill (granted a big one) but nothing out of the ordinary and not something that hasn't been done before, I see this as a design flaw and think the responsibility is on Toyota.
if there is a known issue with that ring gear batch it should be warranty. End of discussion.
I can reveal the above reliable source since he has posted this information here on 'Mud.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=1938215&postcount=23
For those that don't know, powderpig is Robbie; the senior driver for Toyota's Central Trail Team . Robbie is also a highly qualified Toyota mechanic.
-B-
Warranty? Hell, it should be recalled!
Read this...confirms the part change and also documents on warranty replacement:
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...iff-exploded-fj-2.html?highlight=differential
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...iff-exploded-fj-2.html?highlight=differential
I guess what makes me wonder is why there are two different part numbers. I could see that there may have been a manufacturing issue but a replacement part would be expected to be the "new" or "properly treated" part, right? I can't see how they would still be installing a part that wasn't properly "cured"...
ClemsonCruiser
Supporting Vendor
Robbie surely knows his stuff
............. and it is a know issue and should be under warranty; and has been in other cases I have heardgood luck Rick, wish there was more I could do to help
My plan is to place nice until I can't. Then I'm armed with printouts of several key posts on the subject as well as 3 volumes of FJ Cruiser brochures with hundreds of photos of Toyota's FJ Cruiser off road.
I now know where a replacement diff is on the east coast (Ralph Hayes Toyota will receive it) and I'm going to convince Atl Toyota that they really should consider this a material defect.
Thanks for the comments all. We'll know in a few days.
I now know where a replacement diff is on the east coast (Ralph Hayes Toyota will receive it) and I'm going to convince Atl Toyota that they really should consider this a material defect.
Thanks for the comments all. We'll know in a few days.
