Airbags, AAL, or new springs for saggy rear end?

[RustyAndDusty]

I’ve got a fj60 with almost flat rear springs. I can see myself some day in the future splurging on a OME lift spring kit, 33’s, lockers and regear it to 4.11 so I can handle all the hills and mountain passes where I’m at but for now I’m just trying to get it “good enough.”

The springs are stock and the rear sits a little lower than the front. I had a buddy whip up some extended shackles to give it a tiny bit of lift and I had him make the front shackle about an inch shorter than the rear to see if that could help the sag a bit. The shackles lifted the truck about an inch but the rear is still a little lower than I’d want. Especially since I’d like to load the back sometimes for trips. The shackles also made my cruiser-lean more apparent i think. The rear driver corner is lower than the rest which ive read is extremely common. I was thinking maybe I should just pick up some stock rear springs and hope it puts me where I want but I’ve read many accounts of the lean persisting even with new springs. I also don’t know if new springs in the rear would give the truck the stink bug stance.

People definitely seem to look down on AAL here and it would be a similar amount of labor as just putting in new springs. im also not sure how much they would help springs that were close to flat so im not leaning in that direction at this point.

Currently im leaning towards picking up a boss airbag kit for just under $400 with free shipping. It seems like with this kit I can get the truck sitting exactly how I want it with whatever load i choose. And if I do upgrade the suspension someday with an OME kit I can still use the airbag setup. The installation is also much less laborious than replacing springs. They’re also cheaper than new springs. What do you guys think? Will somewhat flat rear springs put too much stress on the airbags? Would it be too much to ask of them to haul my dirtbike on the back? Thanks!

 

[OSS]

Airbags really are best suited as overload suspension helpers.

 

[vipergrhd]

@RustyAndDusty My suggestion would be re-arching the rear spring pack it would be better in the long run and handle better than AAL. You didn't mention where in Cali you are but there is a shop in Oakland that can do it and I have used them before for other jobs. A-1 Springs Service - https://a1springs.com/

 

[robcgray]

I tried to get a truck spring company in Jacksonville, FL to re-arch my springs. The specialist told me the springs we're too old and wouldn't hold it. I ended up doing the air bags and am happy that I can adjust ride and height as needed when load changes. I did replace the springs too which got me new greasable bushings. I also added the u-bolt flip kit at the same time.

 

[RustyAndDusty]

I tried to get a truck spring company in Jacksonville, FL to re-arch my springs. The specialist told me the springs we're too old and wouldn't hold it. I ended up doing the air bags and am happy that I can adjust ride and height as needed when load changes. I did replace the springs too which got me new greasable bushings. I also added the u-bolt flip kit at the same time.

Yeah I haven’t really considered re-arching the springs because the price isn’t very far off from new springs and people say they flatten out much faster than a new set of springs.

Did you happen to ever run the airbags with the old flat springs before you put new ones on?

 

[robcgray]

Yeah I haven’t really considered re-arching the springs because the price isn’t very far off from new springs and people say they flatten out much faster than a new set of springs.

Did you happen to ever run the airbags with the old flat springs before you put new ones on?

I did, but I do not have the experience to say whether it would work long term or not. I did notice that with the flip kits installed and little to no air in the bags (to avoid stinkbug) there is hardly any room between the springs and the frame for the bags. Not sure how much better that would be without flip kits. I was worried the bags would be damaged acting as bumpstops. So I ended up doing new springs front and rear.

It took me several efforts to arrive where I am: new springs, air bags and u-bolt flip kit.

Taking the springs off and putting new ones on isn't bad at all. I think I would try the air bags with the springs you have. If you find that doesn't work, get new springs down the road.

I will say that I was unable to have a satisfactory effect on the land cruiser lean by airbag adjustment. I think CruiserMatt was the one who said something to the effect of having the tires back on the ground, with springs under normal load, before tightening u-bolts down. I did not do that, and I think it may have some effect on lean.

 

[RustyAndDusty]

I did, but I do not have the experience to say whether it would work long term or not. I did notice that with the flip kits installed and little to no air in the bags (to avoid stinkbug) there is hardly any room between the springs and the frame for the bags. Not sure how much better that would be without flip kits. I was worried the bags would be damaged acting as bumpstops. So I ended up doing new springs front and rear.

It took me several efforts to arrive where I am: new springs, air bags and u-bolt flip kit.

Taking the springs off and putting new ones on isn't bad at all. I think I would try the air bags with the springs you have. If you find that doesn't work, get new springs down the road.

I will say that I was unable to have a satisfactory effect on the land cruiser lean by airbag adjustment. I think CruiserMatt was the one who said something to the effect of having the tires back on the ground, with springs under normal load, before tightening u-bolts down. I did not do that, and I think it may have some effect on lean.

Which springs did you end up getting? I was considering getting stock height rear springs from sdtrucksprings but I just found a post here where someone was trying to fix their saggy rear end and purchased all new springs from sdtrucksprings and while the ride quality was better their rear was still saggy.

Does anyone know if add-a-leafs are even an option at this point? Doesnt look like theyre still sold for 60's. The OME add-a-leafs can't be added to a stock spring pack right?

 

[robcgray]

Which springs did you end up getting? I was considering getting stock height rear springs from sdtrucksprings but I just found a post here where someone was trying to fix their saggy rear end and purchased all new springs from sdtrucksprings and while the ride quality was better their rear was still saggy.

Does anyone know if add-a-leafs are even an option at this point? Doesnt look like theyre still sold for 60's. The OME add-a-leafs can't be added to a stock spring pack right?

I had done the sdtrucksprings front and rear. I didn't like the results of either. So, I did the dobinson's: Dobinsons Leaf Spring Pair (HJ61-7L-R LH + HJ61-7L-R RH), Dobinsons Leaf Spring Pair (HJ61-7L-F). These are too high to be considered stock. I ended up removing a leaf from the front (still no stinkbug) as the springs are designed for a stock hj with a diesel, or an fj with aftermarket bumper and winch.
Some good info and discussion here:

Stock height springs for an FJ60

I need a new suspension setup and tires and I think my preference is 31s and stock height springs instead of the standard 2-3" lift with 33s.. I'm not expecting to do a ton of off-roading that a 60 with 31" BFG K02s cant handle. And, loading kids into car seats in a lifted 60 is kind of a pain...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[diesellibrarian]

At the end of the day, if your springs are cooked, they're cooked. If you inspect closely, you might even find a cracked leaf or two. These things aren't really supposed to be in service for 40 years.

There aren't any great shortcuts here. You may be able to source some good used springs, but that might be throwing good money after bad. Might just have to bite the bullet and put new springs in. Do bushings and u-bolts at the same time. The rest of the stuff (tires, re-gear) can happen at any time.

 

[RustyAndDusty]

Went ahead and ordered new stock height springs from General Spring. Just installed them and the springs are just as flat as the 40 year old springs. Possibly flatter honestly. Definitely wasn't expecting that. I guess I should have cheaped out and went the way of the Add-a-leafs from the get go. Going to start the process of returning these and just eat the shipping cost plus the 10% restocking fee. Bummer! I'd say stay away from these springs if you're hopping to revitalize the stance of your 60!

Now I'm wondering if I should just try the AAL, can I just buy a long OME add a leaf and add it into the stock leaf pack? I'm assuming I'll need to find/make a longer center pin.

 

[NookShneer]

OME D1XL (Front) and D2XL (Rear) will help. I'm not sure how much. You would possibly need a longer center pin.

You can look at a Airbag kit. Those are generally used in the rear for additional capacity beyond what the springs can take. Your first post about install time and benefit is pretty accurate. Based on your cost/benefit I think you could do airbags over messing with trying to add a leaf into all 4 of your leaf packs or just the rear pack.

Stock height springs from the factory were pretty flat and never had much arch to begin with. A newer Spring pack with more lift would allow you to get the better load capacity and arch and you could loose the extended shackles. New suspension comes at a much higher price point but lasts a really long time and worth the investment in most cases.

 

[RustyAndDusty]

OME D1XL (Front) and D2XL (Rear) will help. I'm not sure how much. You would possibly need a longer center pin.

You can look at a Airbag kit. Those are generally used in the rear for additional capacity beyond what the springs can take. Your first post about install time and benefit is pretty accurate. Based on your cost/benefit I think you could do airbags over messing with trying to add a leaf into all 4 of your leaf packs or just the rear pack.

Stock height springs from the factory were pretty flat and never had much arch to begin with. A newer Spring pack with more lift would allow you to get the better load capacity and arch and you could loose the extended shackles. New suspension comes at a much higher price point but lasts a really long time and worth the investment in most cases.

I like where the front of the truck sits, the front springs have a ton of arch to them still. I would only be interesting in adding the D2XL leafs in the rear. I'm not sure how much the D2XL will help. Ive seen some people say it gave them 3/4" of life and some got about 1-1/2" of lift. 1-1/2" would most likely be adequate for me. I am considering just getting a pair of the dobinson rears or maybe the ARB Dakar rears and removing a leaf and seeing where it sits.

 

[cps432]

Just save your money and buy the whole suspension kit. Do it all at once and don’t throw bandaids on it. It’s totally worth it and you will not regret doing it.

Put add a leafs in it and it might help for a few months. Use cheap springs and see how they don’t hold (as you’ve experienced). Install cheap shackles and kick yourself in a year when you’re replacing them because they don’t quite work right. Replace bushings in worn out parts that don’t quite fit. Fight rust and corrosion on old parts… Etc etc….

Or…

Do all of it in one weekend and don’t nickel and dime yourself and waste your time. If you bandaid this thing for a while and spend several hundred dollars keeping it together and then you install a full suspension kit you will be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. I did.

I would call cruiseroutfitters and have a chat with them about your options.

 

[RustyAndDusty]

Just save your money and buy the whole suspension kit. Do it all at once and don’t throw bandaids on it. It’s totally worth it and you will not regret doing it.

Put add a leafs in it and it might help for a few months. Use cheap springs and see how they don’t hold (as you’ve experienced). Install cheap shackles and kick yourself in a year when you’re replacing them because they don’t quite work right. Replace bushings in worn out parts that don’t quite fit. Fight rust and corrosion on old parts… Etc etc….

Or…

Do all of it in one weekend and don’t nickel and dime yourself and waste your time. If you bandaid this thing for a while and spend several hundred dollars keeping it together and then you install a full suspension kit you will be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. I did.

I would call cruiseroutfitters and have a chat with them about your options.

Well you're definitely not wrong there and I appreciate the reality check. It would be a very slippery slope for me though. If I spend the $2k on the lift I will want 33" tires since 31's look pretty small with the OME lift in my opinion. I've got the stock chrome steelies which are a little too narrow to comfortably run 33's so then I'd be looking for 5 new rims. I've also got the stock 4 speed transmission and 3.73 gearing and I live on top of a mountain, surrounded by other mountains so then I'd be spending money to regear it. Quickly it starts sounding funny to spend so much more than what I paid for a truck I've hardly gotten to know yet. Not to mention the time all the research and labour those jobs would suck out of me! I'm about to start building a home on some land of mine so its not exactly where my heads at. I'm not saying I will never do those upgrades but nows not really the time for the whole shebang. Maybe in a few years. Just trying to give this thing a little butt lift for now so it doesn't look like a dog doin the boot-scoot and maybe hit the back bump stops less.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Look up BOSS airbags. Best way to pick up the back end. Least expensive. Easy to do.
No modifications needed to anything else. I have OME lift with heavies, so I got the 3 bulb
airbags. I’d recommend for you the 2 bulb airbags. Do a Search here on 60’s forum there is
a very comprehensive thread. Not only lifts your back end, it will improve handling since you
aren’t dragging your back end low. A pic of mine with heavy springs.

 

[RustyAndDusty]

How do you

Look up BOSS airbags. Best way to pick up the back end. Least expensive. Easy to do.
No modifications needed to anything else. I have OME lift with heavies, so I got the 3 bulb
airbags. I’d recommend for you the 2 bulb airbags. Do a Search here on 60’s forum there is
a very comprehensive thread. Not only lifts your back end, it will improve handling since you
aren’t dragging your back end low. A pic of mine with heavy springs.
View attachment 3291068

Nice, how do you like them off road? They don’t feel like you’re riding on bump stops? Or do you mostly deflate them for driving off road?

 

[cruiserpilot]

Never deflate airbags and run them. It will damage them. Because these are 3 bulbs and only get pulled about 2” max on spring extension I run 15 psi at most with a fully loaded truck. That’s 38 gal long range tank plus 15-20 gal extra in cans, 10 gal water in cans, tools gears etc.
Running around town getting groceries I run 3-5 psi. Offroad they are a dream, no bouncing or rear end kicking. Speed bumps at speed-well, you are on your own!
I was skeptical for years, but on a trip up north late one year I picked up 2-300 lbs of mud up under the rear bumper. It sagged so bad the inner fender wheel well edge cut the top outside of my tires. It was kinda scary. Now it doesn’t matter, the truck stays level and handles like it should.
I also replaced my front bump stops with SUMOSPRINGS blue. They are kinda poor man airbags. But they really smooth out the ‘nose dive’ especially offroad because the diesel is heavy and sometimes a bit of forward motion is necessary. Can’t always just crawl.
I’d suggest to buy SUMOSPRINGS but they are probably more than or equal in price and just more of a helper than a solution.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Here's the rabbit hole for you. Go get a coffee....

Rear FJ60 Air Lift / Boss Air Bag Install

Edit: This thread covers Air Lift and Boss Air Lift installs Now that my 60 has a fresh engine and an AFI fuel injection (see signature for AFI info), I’m using it more and more for expo/camping I have 3 big trips on it and each time I’ve been loading it more and more with what I like to...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[cps432]

Well you're definitely not wrong there and I appreciate the reality check. It would be a very slippery slope for me though. If I spend the $2k on the lift I will want 33" tires since 31's look pretty small with the OME lift in my opinion. I've got the stock chrome steelies which are a little too narrow to comfortably run 33's so then I'd be looking for 5 new rims. I've also got the stock 4 speed transmission and 3.73 gearing and I live on top of a mountain, surrounded by other mountains so then I'd be spending money to regear it. Quickly it starts sounding funny to spend so much more than what I paid for a truck I've hardly gotten to know yet. Not to mention the time all the research and labour those jobs would suck out of me! I'm about to start building a home on some land of mine so its not exactly where my heads at. I'm not saying I will never do those upgrades but nows not really the time for the whole shebang. Maybe in a few years. Just trying to give this thing a little butt lift for now so it doesn't look like a dog doin the boot-scoot and maybe hit the back bump stops less.

I’ve done all of that and more. You don’t need to get 33s. Sure it might “look” funky, but it will drive better and will look better than a sagin’ wagon.

You can run KO2 33x10.5 on the factory rims. I do and so do dozens of others on this site. It’s probably the most popular tire for these trucks.

You don’t need to regear your transmission or transfer case to run 33s. It is nice to regear the differentials from 3:73 to 4:11. It responds better and the speedometer is on point, but you can run the 3.73 without any real issues other than gas mileage and having a properly working speedometer.

I would suggest, however, replacing the body mounts before you do the suspension. You can do them at the same time, but installing new body mounts will be easier when the truck is lower to the ground. Body mounts make a huge difference in how things feel when you’re driving around.

 

[RustyAndDusty]

You don’t need to regear your transmission or transfer case to run 33s. It is nice to regear the differentials from 3:73 to 4:11. It responds better and the speedometer is on point, but you can run the 3.73 without any real issues other than gas mileage and having a properly working speedometer.

Interesting, seemed to me like the consensus on this site is that 33's with 3.73 gearing and the 4 speed transmission makes an fj60 pretty gutless when it comes to mountains. It was probably one of the biggest influences for me in choosing to run 31's and forego investing in a OME lift right now. I've taken mine over plenty of mountains since purchasing it and am happy with the power and speed rolling on 31's. I could imagine 33's being satisfactory though, guess I just didn't want to chance it.

Good tip on the body mounts, I havent even really thought about them. They looked decent when I've glanced at them while under the truck.

I have seen people running 33's on the stock wheels, they definitely balloon out a bit but that's probably attractive to a lot of people. I'm a fan of the pizza cutter look for whatever reason. 31's on my stock rims are little more ballooned than I'd usually want but Ive gotten used to it though it makes me wonder how they will wear. Do you run your tires at a lower pressure so the whole contact point is on the ground? Can you go down to 10 or so psi if going in soft sand without worrying about the beed popping off?