Advice: How much should I pay for half of 2f engine rebuild process (1 Viewer)

[Beehanger]

Hi All,

I'm pulling the plug on a mechanic that's been taking far too long (like 4 months) to do an engine rebuild process for me on my 2f. He disassembled everything 5 months ago and the engines been sitting at a machine shop ever since. I want to move the process to Boulder CO with me and find someone else to help me with it, maybe even a mud member. curious what you all think is a fair price for me to pay for pulling of the engine on an 85 FJ60 and the typical ballpark labor hours and cost.

Also, since the machine shop hasn't done much to the engine I think I might pull it form there or just have them do the actual machining work and Ill do the reassembly myself. How much should just having them do the machine work cost ballpark?

Also if anyone can speak from experience, How s***ty is it going to be to ship the engine and truck with parts all over the place? Should I have them bolt the non rebuilt motor back in just for hauling it to CO?

Last question---- is it worth the effort to ship everything that way I can have the experience of doing it myself and getting it done sooner and not be disrespected with all the time its taking?

Beehanger

 

[GarrettS]

A few thoughts, perhaps entirely unconstructive…

1. Are you able to contact the machinist directly? Can you show up at the shop and talk to them and have a real moment with them? Maybe they can expedite your project if they have a gauge of your situation.

I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid machine work in the last couple of years, but machinists have been good to me in the past when I’ve put a face behind my pile of parts.

2. $1800 seems a little steep for a 2F engine, but that’s not WAY too bad if that person is willing to install it for you and make sure you’re driving away from their house. I think $12-1500 would be more reasonable—work included.

* Admittedly, I’ve only been in the diesel LandCruiser market, but a diesel 3B engine (which is probably about as desirable as a 2F) would go for closer to $1000.

3. The fastest way to lose money on this project is to cut your losses and sell it as parts.

If you can get the truck running, even with an engine you know nothing about, you can sell this within a week on craigslist or Facebook marketplace as long as your asking price is within the limits of this terrestrial plane and not some astronomical amount.

I feel terribly for the situation you are in, and I think your best bet is to do whatever you can to get any running engine in the truck as soon as possible.

 

[Beehanger]

I Think you should do all of rest of the work yourself…BUT BEFORE you burn any bridges, make CERTAIN you can get ahold of all the necessary parts.

My machinists pulled me out of a big hole after he & I decided I would need new pistons & rings after all. I was on a major time crunch to get it all done by a certain date (another story) and I by myself was unable to find the certain sized pistons I required. With his knowledge & contacts he was able to come thru and they arrived just in time. So, don’t burn your bridges.

As for the actual install of the engine into your rig…it’s not that hard really. FSM, common sense, YouTube and maybe a friend or 2 to help with the muscle & it can easily be accomplished in 3 long days of work…start to fire it up.

One day to basically get the engine in the engine bay & mostly installed, the next day to button it all up, connect all the wires etc, a bit more messing with it on the 3rd day and fire it up that day also.

$2k to install is crazy…it’s NOT that difficult. Think of the $$ you will be saving.

I dig this. what FSM do you recommend?

 

[John McVicker]

^^^
Toyota Engine FSM.

It can be had on line & then you print it out to always be at your side during assembly. Follow its instructions religiously. Be neat, be methodical and be very clean & organized.

Sorry, I do not have the link to the FSM. Hopefully someone will provide it.

 

[2mbb]

Here is a link: FSM - 2F ENGINE MANUAL - https://forum.ih8mud.com/resources/2f-engine-manual.14/

Most of the 60-series manuals can be found through the IH8MUD Resources tab in the page header.

 

[2mbb]

"wanting to do it" for the experience and having the means to do it are entirely different. rebuilding an engine is not difficult, but it does take attention to detail as John points out above. Add to that the fact that someone else took the engine apart. You will have a much harder time determining what part goes back where. Do you have the tools to use or would you have to purchase them? Will you have a suitable place to do the work? And you mention this is your only car and presumably you do need a car, so there will be a sense of urgency. these are realistic issues you will face that have nothing to do with your desire or your capability.

If you do want to give this a try (which I think is great!) my recommendation would be to first get another reliable car for your daily driver. If nothing else this will give you the means to go to your job to make money and take trips to the cheap tool store to bring back home items like engine stands that you will need to complete the rebuilding process to get your Land Cruiser running again so you can use it to haul around large items.

Read through the rebuilding process in the FSM (Factory Service Manual). Understand what it takes and what tools and other resources you will need to be successful.

 

[John McVicker]

All good points as described by @2mbb, and while all of us are suggesting you go for it, it is not for the faint of heart.

And not necessarily opposite of what I suggested above regarding 3 days…do not count on starting Friday evening after work and think you will be driving it to work on Monday. If all goes well you can fire it up after 3 long days of methodical work…but there is still a bunch of fidilling to accomplish.

Doa load the Engine FSM, look it over and make a well thought out…and honest…assessment of if you believe you can accomplish what needs to be done. And go from there.

Do you have a friend that canbe there with you from start to end? If so, it’s a great help.

 

[Beehanger]

H8MUD Resources tab in the page header.

"wanting to do it" for the experience and having the means to do it are entirely different. rebuilding an engine is not difficult, but it does take attention to detail as John points out above. Add to that the fact that someone else took the engine apart. You will have a much harder time determining what part goes back where. Do you have the tools to use or would you have to purchase them? Will you have a suitable place to do the work? And you mention this is your only car and presumably you do need a car, so there will be a sense of urgency. these are realistic issues you will face that have nothing to do with your desire or your capability.

If you do want to give this a try (which I think is great!) my recommendation would be to first get another reliable car for your daily driver. If nothing else this will give you the means to go to your job to make money and take trips to the cheap tool store to bring back home items like engine stands that you will need to complete the rebuilding process to get your Land Cruiser running again so you can use it to haul around large items.

Read through the rebuilding process in the FSM (Factory Service Manual). Understand what it takes and what tools and other resources you will need to be successful.

I'll give it a read. Thank you. What Large Items are you referring to the LC hauling? Are you speaking of other projects that will come after engine install?

 

[2mbb]

I'll give it a read. Thank you. What Large Items are you referring to the LC hauling? Are you speaking of other projects that will come after engine install?

I was trying to provide an image of the irony of owning a utilitarian vehicle (land cruiser) but not being able to use it as such. Of course I don't know your particular situation. This may be neither important nor ironic. You may be able to borrow a truck. You may have access to someone else's auto shop.

I am a full believer in "doing it yourself" as I think most of us are on this forum. You have been honest with us that you have never done much of this before and are in the process of relocating, which implies you may not have an appropriate work space. I think what is important is to provide advice that will likely have a successful outcome. I'm not trying to discourage you. But i would like you to be successful!

 

[Beehanger]

I was trying to provide an image of the irony of owning a utilitarian vehicle (land cruiser) but not being able to use it as such. Of course I don't know your particular situation. This may be neither important nor ironic. You may be able to borrow a truck. You may have access to someone else's auto shop.

I am a full believer in "doing it yourself" as I think most of us are on this forum. You have been honest with us that you have never done much of this before and are in the process of relocating, which implies you may not have an appropriate work space. I think what is important is to provide advice that will likely have a successful outcome. I'm not trying to discourage you. But i would like you to be successful!

Update, folks:

Picked up a job at a mechanic shop/business startup that repairs and sells old school JDM mitsubishi delicts. Ive been here a month doing marketing for them, I have access to shop space for my cruiser. Shipping the project hopefully this week -- machine shop is done but forgot to machine rockers..... they want mechanic to drop them back off but considering the 1.5 years its taken already Im strongly debating if I should just ship it and stop the bloodletting of time for them to get to the rockers and have it done locally. My boss gave me the go ahead since we have a lapse in inventory and I'm eager.
Looks like Ill have the space to do the project, and be surrounded by some mechanics that will help me out some.

Another issue is, The Mechanic literally just put the head and the block in the back of the truck on some cardboard. Im concerned this could be a bad idea and the block could go flying out of the tailgate or slide around since its not on a pallet. Anyone have experience with moving a project? I also want him to go over a checklist for all the parts before shipping but the guys kinda fed up that I'm moving the project. I don't want to fumble at the 1 yard line and am already paying him $1400 for uninstalling the engine, paid the machine shop $3400.

If its a really big deal to get the thing at least somewhat strapped on a pallet in the back and send him a parts checklist and give him hell if he says no I will, but seeing what everyone take is.
Gunna start reading FSM every night in preparation, but any other bits of advice appreciated as well

Beehanger

 

[Cruzerman]

The biggest problem here is not having the financial means to carry such a big asset that is sucking money out, and that it happens to be my only car. I would love to think the land cruiser market will keep going up to counteract this because of high inflation, looming recession and GDP decline as physical assets/ vintage 4x4 toys are even more sought after, and that I can justify this whole process and driving it by that projection.

Going to get slammed here, but I'll throw in my opinion anyhow. To me, this is someone trying to talk themselves into something they know they should not be doing. These vehicles are not for those who have very tight budgets. They also are not good daily drivers nor are good as your only vehicle. And if your entire logic is that you will get all your money back because they are going up in value, that is definitely not a sure thing.

You need to get yourself a reliable, cheap to operate, daily driver. If you are totally set on having a cruiser, keep it, save up your money, and do the work as finances allow. Otherwise, cut your losses and sell it. You don't want to go through financial hardship over a car. JMHO.

 

[cps432]

Update, folks:

Picked up a job at a mechanic shop/business startup that repairs and sells old school JDM mitsubishi delicts. Ive been here a month doing marketing for them, I have access to shop space for my cruiser. Shipping the project hopefully this week -- machine shop is done but forgot to machine rockers..... they want mechanic to drop them back off but considering the 1.5 years its taken already Im strongly debating if I should just ship it and stop the bloodletting of time for them to get to the rockers and have it done locally. My boss gave me the go ahead since we have a lapse in inventory and I'm eager.
Looks like Ill have the space to do the project, and be surrounded by some mechanics that will help me out some.

Another issue is, The Mechanic literally just put the head and the block in the back of the truck on some cardboard. Im concerned this could be a bad idea and the block could go flying out of the tailgate or slide around since its not on a pallet. Anyone have experience with moving a project? I also want him to go over a checklist for all the parts before shipping but the guys kinda fed up that I'm moving the project. I don't want to fumble at the 1 yard line and am already paying him $1400 for uninstalling the engine, paid the machine shop $3400.

If its a really big deal to get the thing at least somewhat strapped on a pallet in the back and send him a parts checklist and give him hell if he says no I will, but seeing what everyone take is.
Gunna start reading FSM every night in preparation, but any other bits of advice appreciated as well

Beehanger

I think it will be fine in the back of the truck like it is. That thing is a monster and it’s very tough. Just get it back into your possession and deal with whatever you have to deal with. I’ve daily driven my 60 for many years. I’ve defiantly not earned money doing all this work (both axles rebuilt, new trans/transfercase/ suspension/ etc etc) and in many regards it’s been a terrible financial mistake. But, I have learned so much it’s made me a different person and I am confident in myself like never before. It’s carried over into every other aspect of my life and I do not regret it. For the most part…

Currently, I am rebuilding my engine in my garage. First time building an engine. I’m taking Uber everywhere for the most part. It’s not cheap or easy. Once I got over the sting of having my engine give up I started having a lot of fun fixing this problem.

As for the rockers? I just resurfaced mine by hand last night while I was waiting for my cylinder block to boil in simple green. Get a scrap piece of marble or granite counter top and some 400 grit wet dry paper. You can glue it down with 3M spray but I didn’t even do that. I just very carefully and evenly ground down the surface while following the factory grind to keep the proper profile. It took a few hours but they came out great and I didn’t have to call anybody or rely on anyone else to fit me into their schedule. I just handled that sh!t on my own.

If you’re thinking that at the end of all this you’re going to have a badass rig that’s worth a ton of money and everyone will be willing to pay 40K+ for it then I would get that out of your head quick. This is not a hobby that’s going to turn a profit for you.

If you approach it as a life lesson and a sort of hands on trial by fire school of hard knocks type deal then you’ll walk away with confidence that can help you in other ways you never imagined. 5-6 years ago the biggest mechanical work I had done is change brakes and rotors. Now, I’m rebuilding an engine with little frustration because I know I can do it.

 

[cps432]

Also, if you’re in Boulder, you might look up Robbie Antinson of Adventure Off Road. He has had a few different shop locations in the past few years, but I think he’s out in Longmont now. I used to have his phone number, but I haven’t spoken with him for a long time. He is a member of this forum, but I’m not sure how active he is these days. Powderpig is his handle I think.

If I recall he went to Toyota school in the early 80’s and has been working on land cruisers for decades. He’s not cheap but he’s very good. He’s given me advise on several things over the years that helped save me tons of money and encouraged me to take on the projects myself.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Also, if you’re in Boulder, you might look up Robbie Antinson of Adventure Off Road. He has had a few different shop locations in the past few years, but I think he’s out in Longmont now. I used to have his phone number, but I haven’t spoken with him for a long time. He is a member of this forum, but I’m not sure how active he is these days. Powderpig is his handle I think.

If I recall he went to Toyota school in the early 80’s and has been working on land cruisers for decades. He’s not cheap but he’s very good. He’s given me advise on several things over the years that helped save me tons of money and encouraged me to take on the projects myself.

Robbie has retired and moved out of state fwiw. I contacted him recently with some questions about my 60 (which the PO had Robbie service many times), so I got the info straight from the horses mouth. There’s a lot of expertise in the Rising Sun club and a few mechanics around who work on Cruisers, but nobody who’s garnered a “guru” reputation like Robbie. Well Sorted (in Buena Vista) just moved to Georgia too. There’s Redline in the Springs but I have no direct experience with them, nor do I know anybody who has that. Japanese Auto Service is a name I’ve heard mentioned recently from 80 Series folks in town, but again, no direct experience.

Anyway, I think OP just moved to Idaho or somewhere right?

 

[CruiserTrash]

Regarding daily driving a 60 on a budget … I do it and I know quite a few people that do. It absolutely can be done, with a couple caveats:

Like @cps432 said, expect zero return on investment. Zip. Zilch. The guys doing high end refurbs and making money on “flipping” trucks have been doing this for decades, they have more knowledge about Cruisers in one pinky toe than I have in my whole brain. You’ll spend the money and the return will be the pleasure you derive from these things through driving and as a hobby - THAT is your return.

You’ll have to do almost all the work yourself. Good mechanics are expensive - and they ought to be - and there’s a lot of bad mechanics out there. I’m at the point where I really only trust the work I do myself. The exception would be engine machine work. Almost everything else is doable on your own.

You HAVE TO read and reread and digest and dream about the FSMs. You have to get your head inside of what Toyota was doing and you’ll stop second guessing yourself.

These old trucks shouldn’t be exclusively rich guy playthings. They never were to begin with. Sure, if you got loads of spare cash burning a hole in your pocket and want to buy some pristine resto 60 off BaT so you can drive it one Sunday per month, go for it. No shame there. But that doesn’t mean everybody does. You don’t have to be that guy to get into this. For now I’ll continue being a blue collar dude who dailies a 60, with all the joy and heartbreak that goes with it.

 

[cps432]

If they can rebuild these engines in third world countries using a dirt floor as an engine stand then we can do it here in this country with all our first world problems too.

I just heard an interview with Elon Musk where he talks about his grandfather flying an airplane around the world having to stop on remote island in the pacific to rebuild the engine depending on what fuel was available in that location. People achieve monumental feats and it ends up being a footnote in their legacy.

Don’t let fear keep you from doing things. I know it’s a bit preachy but we need more people with grit and determination to do hard things simply because it’s hard. That’s how things generally get easier.

 

[Beehanger]

If they can rebuild these engines in third world countries using a dirt floor as an engine stand then we can do it here in this country with all our first world problems too.

I just heard an interview with Elon Musk where he talks about his grandfather flying an airplane around the world having to stop on remote island in the pacific to rebuild the engine depending on what fuel was available in that location. People achieve monumental feats and it ends up being a footnote in their legacy.

Don’t let fear keep you from doing things. I know it’s a bit preachy but we need more people with grit and determination to do hard things simply because it’s hard. That’s how things generally get easier.

Thank you guys for the responses. I figured out a few months ago that the bloodletting financially with the cruiser will probably never stop and pretty much accepted it at this point, with the caveat that I’m doing the bloodletting to myself this time I’m in Ketchum Idaho doing the project, I’m going to ship it and sandpaper it like @cps432 said. A lot of what you guys are saying is the general sentiment that originally inspired me. This is why I want to do this, not the technicolor dreams of flipping it.

I’ll figure it out and will try not to break anything too important, likely going to do a build thread/video catalog with some dumb and dumber type comedy mixed in.

Beehanger

 

[Beehanger]

Thank you guys for the responses. I figured out a few months ago that the bloodletting financially with the cruiser will probably never stop and pretty much accepted it at this point, with the caveat that I’m doing the bloodletting to myself this time I’m in Ketchum Idaho doing the project, I’m going to ship it and sandpaper it like @cps432 said. A lot of what you guys are saying is the general sentiment that originally inspired me. This is why I want to do this, not the technicolor dreams of flipping it.

I’ll figure it out and will try not to break anything too important, likely going to do a build thread/video catalog with some dumb and dumber type comedy mixed in.

Beehanger

Anyone know where I can find a full list of parts they would have taken out for the rebuild? I want to make sure no parts are left there and if I can send them a comprehensive list I think I’ll save myself a lot of headaches.

Daniel

 

[2mbb]

I left a reply of sorts on your other thread. Another idea would be to hold back some percentage of payment for a specified period of time so you can check for everything once it is delivered.

 

[Beehanger]

I left a reply of sorts on your other thread. Another idea would be to hold back some percentage of payment for a specified period of time so you can check for everything once it is delivered.

Hmmmm... I could see this being a major help or a big backfire haha

 

[Beehanger]

Hmmmm... I could see this being a major help or a big backfire haha

Cruiser shipped back, completed engine (minus assembly of head and block together) and all items in the back. Everything’s paid for and gunna finish what I started. Exhausted, but I’m still here
Thanks for all your prior comments
Beehanger