He doesn't want to sell it, duh
I feel for you Mike, I wouldn't want to sell it either.
Ary
Wow, pretty pissy today huh?
Hey Ary I've got green door handles, but, I dont wanna sell them so
yourself! 
97 40th Turbo Build
- Thread starter MSGGrunt
- Start date
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Wow, pretty pissy today huh?
Hey Ary I've got green door handles, but, I dont wanna sell them so
yourself! 
You're just a little behind that's all. Mike has been talking about the gut-wrenching agony he's going through trying to decide whether or not to sell the rig.
I don't think he intended the to be directed at you.
If you do seriously have green door handles please PM me!
I don't think he intended the
to be directed at you.If you do seriously have green door handles please PM me!
You're just a little behind that's all. Mike has been talking about the gut-wrenching agony he's going through trying to decide whether or not to sell the rig.
I don't think he intended the
If you do seriously have green door handles please PM me!
No I never thought the
was at me; I was just concerned about a fellow friend, and yes, I'm much more than a little behind; never even realized he was selling his really awesome rig, now I'm and 
too! 
Ohh, and no, I don't have the handles, I was just joking. Laters.
- Thread starter
- #84
FAQ: Turbo Oil Lines (feed and drain) Primer.
________________________________________
Lots of info out there, but I'll reference a post I found while searching other sites.
Oil Feed:
Tapping the sending unit - this is one of the more common methods of getting oil to the turbo. There has always been a bit of contention re: the OPSU's thread and pitch size...
The sending unit IS BPT - however, it’s so negligible a difference, that you can absolutely thread it into an NPT tee, and thread that tee into the block. Use a bit of high temp, fuel safe Teflon tape on the threads, and you'll be golden. For the uninitiated, this is the YELLOW Teflon. White Teflon will dissolve under continued exposure to heat and petroleum.
LINES: after messing with -6AN for a while, and various reducers, to get it down to an acceptable level (its what was laying around, from a fuel setup) - I recently redid everything with -3AN. Use SS braided, fuel/oil safe lines. Do it right, do it once.
Everything you need can be purchased here:
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/m...tegory_Code=OIL
http://www.turbo-supply.com
Anyways, just to keep things centralized, here's what you need from ATP - feel free to substitute your own stuff, as MOST of the brass fittings can be found at home depot, or other retailers, for less money...except the npt-->AN adapters.
1/8" NPT tee
8.25 ATP price... way high, these can be found for 3.29 at a Lowes or Home Depot. Note: for this to work, it HAS to be a M-F-F tee. There are m-m-f tees that simply won't do the job without introducing more adapters (more possible leak points down the line)
-3AN to 1/8 NPT adapter - NOTE: they can be straight and bent - read on... You will need one on BOTH ends of the AN line, 1 for the sending unit side, and 1 for the turbo, if you are using a Garrett turbo, that is. On the sending unit side- you thread the tee into the block. I used some loctite. DO NOT DO THIS. the fittings are brass, unless you're lucky enough to find someone who stocks them in harder materials. BRASS FITTINGS BREAK EASILY IF YOU TRY TO UNSCREW THEM WHEN YOU HAVE LOCTITE ON THEIR THREADS!!!!! - at least, do not use the RED loctite. Green or blue should be ok, but you'll need to add heat to break it free (reason I didn’t use it is because it kind of defeats the purpose. these components are always hot.)
do yourselves a favor and find HIGH TEMP TEFLON.. used for oil lines in homes, or gas pipes, etc... it should be yellow, not the standard water pipe white Teflon tape.
anyways thread the tee into the block, with a female end facing up... throw your STRAIGHT -3AN adapter into this end.. the other end.. well it gets tricky here.. really depends on your setup, how you have the turbo clocked, etc... depending on where your inlet winds up, you'll need to use a straight or 45 degree. fitting.... Or in cases like mine, a 90 degree, however... good luck finding one. If, like my setup, you don't have the hood clearance to run a 45 degree without kinking the line, then use a m-f 1/8" npt 90* elbow - available at home depot... plenty on the shelves, even here in nyc... and then use a regular straight AN adapter, linked above. I used some red loctite on these as well.. again do not do this unless you are 100% sure on what you are doing. DO NOT LOCTITE ANYTHING TO THE TURBO OIL INLET. it will suck when the fitting breaks, trust me. Use only Teflon and/or rtv.
Next on the list is the actual oil feed line.. Again I would recommend http://www.turbo-supply.com - he hooked me up nicely - 32.00 shipped for a 36" -3AN line, with the AN-NPT adapters linked above, as well as the tee linked above.
HOWEVER, if you wish to shop ATP instead, here’s a link. at least you can use ATP as a resource for visuals on what you should get, even if you can get it elsewhere.
-3AN line
now lastly is the oil inlet restrictor.. absolutely necessary on a Garrett turbo if running -4AN, as our native oil pressures are too high. with the -3AN, I ran it sans restrictor for quite a while without any new oil blowing into my intake tract.. I didn’t have nearly the problems I had when I was running a -6AN feed line (lol, I know, I know!) even with a restrictor on the -6AN.
I definitely say -3 instead of -4 because a> it’s cheaper.. b> less likely to kink (yes even SS braided CAN GET KINKED) and c> a little extra protection against turbo-killing oil pressures. Try to blow through a -3AN line, vs. a -4... it’s much harder to do so... which means oil will have a harder time getting through it as well. It’s all about volume.
DRAIN LINE:
firstly... unless your turbo came with it - BUY A DAMN FLANGE. just do it.. I’ve tried the DIY solutions too many times where it comes to drainage, and you know what.. spend the 15$ for a flange, gasket, and bolts. that too can be had on ATP - but I’ve found it to be much cheaper on eBay, then spend 2.19 at home depot for a 5/8" barbed adapter... Don't bother with heater core, silicone, or other type of rubber or coated hose.. IT’S NOT WORTH IT. The line will kink when hot, so keep that in mind. It will also eventually eat through, and make the inside sludgy. Do yourself the favor and buy a -10AN aero quip or similar OIL RATED stainless steel braided line that you can use with barbed fittings... OR forego the aforementioned barbed adapter and just get the -10AN screw in connector, whichever fits your drain flange.
You'll have to have the oil pan tapped... just have a 5/8" brazed/flared end welded on, maybe an inch long and you're good. a little more expensive, and harder to fit (but worth it to some) would be a threaded AN fitting, to allow for -10AN line.
beyond that - use as many screw clamps as needed to ensure nothing pops off, and use as many metal zip ties (great for use with your header wrap also, but its cheaper to use clamps for the header wrap
) as needed to tie things up/tuck them out of the way. if you use plastic zip ties, they WILL melt, or get brittle and pop. go metal. be it these metal ties, or cheaper metal strapping, etc... trust me
other options are eBay "kits" which are pretty darn complete... you'll need a longer drain line, obviously... as well as the restrictor, and whatever else you don’t see in the pics.. but it IS a decent 1-stop solution, with just a few misc items to buy... but it costs more than you can piece it together yourself for... buyer's choice on this one... If I were starting out, I would probably go this route, and get some longer length of 5/8 or -10AN drain line.
Obviously, if you tap a different spot for the oil, you'll need to get the necessary reducers, from 3/8BPT to 1/8"... but for the most part, the formula remains the same.
________________________________________
Lots of info out there, but I'll reference a post I found while searching other sites.
Oil Feed:
Tapping the sending unit - this is one of the more common methods of getting oil to the turbo. There has always been a bit of contention re: the OPSU's thread and pitch size...
The sending unit IS BPT - however, it’s so negligible a difference, that you can absolutely thread it into an NPT tee, and thread that tee into the block. Use a bit of high temp, fuel safe Teflon tape on the threads, and you'll be golden. For the uninitiated, this is the YELLOW Teflon. White Teflon will dissolve under continued exposure to heat and petroleum.
LINES: after messing with -6AN for a while, and various reducers, to get it down to an acceptable level (its what was laying around, from a fuel setup) - I recently redid everything with -3AN. Use SS braided, fuel/oil safe lines. Do it right, do it once.
Everything you need can be purchased here:
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/m...tegory_Code=OIL
http://www.turbo-supply.com
Anyways, just to keep things centralized, here's what you need from ATP - feel free to substitute your own stuff, as MOST of the brass fittings can be found at home depot, or other retailers, for less money...except the npt-->AN adapters.
1/8" NPT tee
8.25 ATP price... way high, these can be found for 3.29 at a Lowes or Home Depot. Note: for this to work, it HAS to be a M-F-F tee. There are m-m-f tees that simply won't do the job without introducing more adapters (more possible leak points down the line)
-3AN to 1/8 NPT adapter - NOTE: they can be straight and bent - read on... You will need one on BOTH ends of the AN line, 1 for the sending unit side, and 1 for the turbo, if you are using a Garrett turbo, that is. On the sending unit side- you thread the tee into the block. I used some loctite. DO NOT DO THIS. the fittings are brass, unless you're lucky enough to find someone who stocks them in harder materials. BRASS FITTINGS BREAK EASILY IF YOU TRY TO UNSCREW THEM WHEN YOU HAVE LOCTITE ON THEIR THREADS!!!!! - at least, do not use the RED loctite. Green or blue should be ok, but you'll need to add heat to break it free (reason I didn’t use it is because it kind of defeats the purpose. these components are always hot.)
do yourselves a favor and find HIGH TEMP TEFLON.. used for oil lines in homes, or gas pipes, etc... it should be yellow, not the standard water pipe white Teflon tape.
anyways thread the tee into the block, with a female end facing up... throw your STRAIGHT -3AN adapter into this end.. the other end.. well it gets tricky here.. really depends on your setup, how you have the turbo clocked, etc... depending on where your inlet winds up, you'll need to use a straight or 45 degree. fitting.... Or in cases like mine, a 90 degree, however... good luck finding one. If, like my setup, you don't have the hood clearance to run a 45 degree without kinking the line, then use a m-f 1/8" npt 90* elbow - available at home depot... plenty on the shelves, even here in nyc... and then use a regular straight AN adapter, linked above. I used some red loctite on these as well.. again do not do this unless you are 100% sure on what you are doing. DO NOT LOCTITE ANYTHING TO THE TURBO OIL INLET. it will suck when the fitting breaks, trust me. Use only Teflon and/or rtv.
Next on the list is the actual oil feed line.. Again I would recommend http://www.turbo-supply.com - he hooked me up nicely - 32.00 shipped for a 36" -3AN line, with the AN-NPT adapters linked above, as well as the tee linked above.
HOWEVER, if you wish to shop ATP instead, here’s a link. at least you can use ATP as a resource for visuals on what you should get, even if you can get it elsewhere.
-3AN line
now lastly is the oil inlet restrictor.. absolutely necessary on a Garrett turbo if running -4AN, as our native oil pressures are too high. with the -3AN, I ran it sans restrictor for quite a while without any new oil blowing into my intake tract.. I didn’t have nearly the problems I had when I was running a -6AN feed line (lol, I know, I know!) even with a restrictor on the -6AN.
I definitely say -3 instead of -4 because a> it’s cheaper.. b> less likely to kink (yes even SS braided CAN GET KINKED) and c> a little extra protection against turbo-killing oil pressures. Try to blow through a -3AN line, vs. a -4... it’s much harder to do so... which means oil will have a harder time getting through it as well. It’s all about volume.
DRAIN LINE:
firstly... unless your turbo came with it - BUY A DAMN FLANGE. just do it.. I’ve tried the DIY solutions too many times where it comes to drainage, and you know what.. spend the 15$ for a flange, gasket, and bolts. that too can be had on ATP - but I’ve found it to be much cheaper on eBay, then spend 2.19 at home depot for a 5/8" barbed adapter... Don't bother with heater core, silicone, or other type of rubber or coated hose.. IT’S NOT WORTH IT. The line will kink when hot, so keep that in mind. It will also eventually eat through, and make the inside sludgy. Do yourself the favor and buy a -10AN aero quip or similar OIL RATED stainless steel braided line that you can use with barbed fittings... OR forego the aforementioned barbed adapter and just get the -10AN screw in connector, whichever fits your drain flange.
You'll have to have the oil pan tapped... just have a 5/8" brazed/flared end welded on, maybe an inch long and you're good. a little more expensive, and harder to fit (but worth it to some) would be a threaded AN fitting, to allow for -10AN line.
beyond that - use as many screw clamps as needed to ensure nothing pops off, and use as many metal zip ties (great for use with your header wrap also, but its cheaper to use clamps for the header wrap
other options are eBay "kits" which are pretty darn complete... you'll need a longer drain line, obviously... as well as the restrictor, and whatever else you don’t see in the pics.. but it IS a decent 1-stop solution, with just a few misc items to buy... but it costs more than you can piece it together yourself for... buyer's choice on this one... If I were starting out, I would probably go this route, and get some longer length of 5/8 or -10AN drain line.
Obviously, if you tap a different spot for the oil, you'll need to get the necessary reducers, from 3/8BPT to 1/8"... but for the most part, the formula remains the same.
- Thread starter
- #85
Well, the head is back on with a new head gasket and new head bolts. The biggest PITA was replacing the fuel filter. The transmission cooler is plumbed. The turbo build can begin. I am having a hard time finding the correct size check valve to install in the charcoal canister line. Searching through the Specter site I see the 60 series used a check valve, I wonder if this is the correct size?
I will be away training with the military until the begining of June so the build will be on hold until I get back.
I will be away training with the military until the begining of June so the build will be on hold until I get back.
MSGGrunt - I know BEGI has the correct size here...
http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages/products_FPR.html
bottom of page, $7. Maybe call them and find out where they source it if you don't want to buy if from them.
http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages/products_FPR.html
bottom of page, $7. Maybe call them and find out where they source it if you don't want to buy if from them.
Curious, is this something you need to do as a result of adding the turbo, if so why?
You really don't want positve pressure (6 psi) in the canister. It was never designed to be a pressure rated canister... The inline check valve only allows only vaccum to the canister.
- Thread starter
- #89
Now that I am back from serving Uncle Sam I will be getting back into this project. Another question about this build. With the cast manifold should I slot the mounting holes slightly to allow for expansion and contraction? This manifold does not have the slip joint like the Safari and I am wondering if this will be an issue?
I just got back from a meeting with my manufacturer on the manifold that I'm having built. The end result is that while aluminum expands at a greater rate than steel (2:1) the exhaust manifold is running at a higher temp. Depending on the exhaust temps it could be a moot point.
Right now I need to get realistic numbers on exactly how hot the exhaust is going to be. Once I have those numbers my guys will come back with real calculations on what needs to be done and by how much.
BTW: I had designed in a slip joint and they said that not only was it not needed but could pose problems so it has been removed from the design.
Rick
my exhaust egt reads 1500 easily cruising down the highway.
I dont know how your external wastegate will be integrated into your downpipe but everything I read suggested there should be some sort of flexible coupling between the wastegate exit and downpipe because this coupler will see such variable and rapid changes in temp. immagine a 1 foot piece of 1.5 inch exhaust tube going from relitively cool to 1600 over and over as you boost on and off while driving through the mountains. immagine how much stress that will place on the 2 wastegate flanges and THE WASTEGATE GASKETS. you will likely blow wastegate gaskets all the time.
I just changed my wastegate gaskets after they blew. I tried running without gaskets but there is often a little leakage and I could smell it. wastegate flanges only have 2 bolts so its hard to get a good seal without a gasket. so I used a gasket and they have held up ok. but the stress on that wategate will be more extreme without a flex coupler. these guys building your stuff certainly have more experience than me but...
perhaps others could comment
i just used a cheap small pcv walve at the canister and it works fine
my exhaust egt reads 1500 easily cruising down the highway.
I dont know how your external wastegate will be integrated into your downpipe but everything I read suggested there should be some sort of flexible coupling between the wastegate exit and downpipe because this coupler will see such variable and rapid changes in temp. immagine a 1 foot piece of 1.5 inch exhaust tube going from relitively cool to 1600 over and over as you boost on and off while driving through the mountains. immagine how much stress that will place on the 2 wastegate flanges and THE WASTEGATE GASKETS. you will likely blow wastegate gaskets all the time.
I just changed my wastegate gaskets after they blew. I tried running without gaskets but there is often a little leakage and I could smell it. wastegate flanges only have 2 bolts so its hard to get a good seal without a gasket. so I used a gasket and they have held up ok. but the stress on that wategate will be more extreme without a flex coupler. these guys building your stuff certainly have more experience than me but...
perhaps others could comment
i just used a cheap small pcv walve at the canister and it works fine
Thoughts on random things brought up in this thread:
On your intercooler piping, beading them will definitely save you some hassle. Messing with hot pipes and silicone couplers on the side of the freeway in the middle of the night is not a fun experience. Have them beaded and forget about it.
A flexible joint on the exhaust manifold end of the downpipe is a must. Avoid cheap mesh type joints, especially ones that restrict flow like this one:
http://www.suprasport.com/HKS-Downpipe_p_43-26.html#
I can't find a picture of the type I used on my old Supra. But it was more like the scale type used on Semi as mentioned above.
If you can at all swing it, add the water cooled center section. It will save you money and maintenance.
On your intercooler piping, beading them will definitely save you some hassle. Messing with hot pipes and silicone couplers on the side of the freeway in the middle of the night is not a fun experience. Have them beaded and forget about it.
A flexible joint on the exhaust manifold end of the downpipe is a must. Avoid cheap mesh type joints, especially ones that restrict flow like this one:
http://www.suprasport.com/HKS-Downpipe_p_43-26.html#
I can't find a picture of the type I used on my old Supra. But it was more like the scale type used on Semi as mentioned above.
If you can at all swing it, add the water cooled center section. It will save you money and maintenance.
Safari intercooler
Check out the Safarin intercooler tubing routes on a Diesel 80 series. The tubo hangs under the exhaust manifold and in the std application is plumbed into the air cleaner with a short hose with a 90 bend.
The inter cooler option uses a cast runner over the top of the engine from left to right and then a tube that dive under the right hand battery box and through the front panel below the headlight. this is the top connection to the intercooler. The other hose is connected to the turbo outlet then into a fabricated pipe section then is routed through the inner guard and then back into flexible pipe straight into the bottom of the intercoler. The bottom hose is almost horizontal from the bottom of the inner guard across the frame rail to the intercooler.
Hope this helps.
I can take pictures and PM them if you PM your email address to me.
Cheers
Check out the Safarin intercooler tubing routes on a Diesel 80 series. The tubo hangs under the exhaust manifold and in the std application is plumbed into the air cleaner with a short hose with a 90 bend.
The inter cooler option uses a cast runner over the top of the engine from left to right and then a tube that dive under the right hand battery box and through the front panel below the headlight. this is the top connection to the intercooler. The other hose is connected to the turbo outlet then into a fabricated pipe section then is routed through the inner guard and then back into flexible pipe straight into the bottom of the intercoler. The bottom hose is almost horizontal from the bottom of the inner guard across the frame rail to the intercooler.
Hope this helps.
I can take pictures and PM them if you PM your email address to me.
Cheers
- Thread starter
- #94
An update. The turbo manifold is on. A few issues came up with the manifold that I purchased off Ebay. One similiar, if not the very same, that Man-a-Fre was working with. First, there wasn't enough room to get onto the mounting nuts where the header bolts to the head with a socket, hence I was not able to get an accurate torque. I used a combintation wrench and pray that it is tight enough. Secondly. The 4 studs on the manifold where the turbo itself mounts do not line-up. I can get the turbo to index over two studs but not the other two. The interference on the other two is slight and enlarging the lower two holes on the turbine slightly will allow it to mount properly.
My other issue is finding a shop that can modify my A/C hose to route around the turbo exhaust turbine. Any help from those that have gone there before would be greatly appreciated.
Also, What is the BEST method, other than taking off the upper oil pan, of fabricating the fitting for the oil return drain line?
My other issue is finding a shop that can modify my A/C hose to route around the turbo exhaust turbine. Any help from those that have gone there before would be greatly appreciated.
Also, What is the BEST method, other than taking off the upper oil pan, of fabricating the fitting for the oil return drain line?
- Thread starter
- #95
Would this type of fitting work for the oil drain return? The idea would be to drill the larger center hole with a uni-bit, drill the two bolt holes and tap these. (is the upper oil pan thick enough to be tapped) clean the oil pan mating surface and use gasket cement to prevent any leaking. How much torque should be used on the two mounting bolts? I tend to over tighten everything unless I use a torque wrench.
I worked a deal on a upper oil pan for my truck. I'll be able to weld on a bung for the oil return before bolting it on. It should be here for next weekend and it will give a nice inside view of the best place to enter it.
I'm no welder but I'd imagine it would depend a lot on where it was on the pan.
concerning the oil return:
safari shows where to tap the pan in their turbo install instructions. the link is in my turbo build. I tapped it with a 3/8 npt and sealed the threads with red loc tight. it doesn't leak. you will need a 90' drill and a unibit to drill the hole-not enough space for a conventional bit. you will be done in 30 min and can move on. drain the oil after the tap. you could remove the pan to do the job but I wouldn't. especially if the pan isn't leaking now. welding that aluminum may open up all kinds of worms
concerning the ac line
i had a local custom tube shop make up my new ac line-the guy had it done in a few hours and it was real cheap. they can weld on the fitting already in place but the ac fittings are fairly universal so I would have them use new fittings (and o rings). before you bring the truck to a tube shop for the ac line be sure to have it evacuated at an ac shop so you get credit for the drain so you save some money when you come back for the recharge
a torqued a few of the header bolts to get a feel for the proper torque and then did the rest by feel
safari shows where to tap the pan in their turbo install instructions. the link is in my turbo build. I tapped it with a 3/8 npt and sealed the threads with red loc tight. it doesn't leak. you will need a 90' drill and a unibit to drill the hole-not enough space for a conventional bit. you will be done in 30 min and can move on. drain the oil after the tap. you could remove the pan to do the job but I wouldn't. especially if the pan isn't leaking now. welding that aluminum may open up all kinds of worms
concerning the ac line
i had a local custom tube shop make up my new ac line-the guy had it done in a few hours and it was real cheap. they can weld on the fitting already in place but the ac fittings are fairly universal so I would have them use new fittings (and o rings). before you bring the truck to a tube shop for the ac line be sure to have it evacuated at an ac shop so you get credit for the drain so you save some money when you come back for the recharge
a torqued a few of the header bolts to get a feel for the proper torque and then did the rest by feel
