97 40th Turbo Build (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MSGGrunt
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- Thread starter
- #22
Cattledog you must have read my mind as I was just toying with that idea, but I think the downpipe would be a concern. The intercooler plumbing will be mostly welded pipe to reduce the number of silicone couplers to as few as possible. Another option would be to remove (chop in the hotrod world) an inch or two out of the factory air cleaner to shorten its overall height then reweld it back together around its circumference. Just would have to find the right height air filter to go along with the modified filter housing. That just popped into my head..... Trying to think outside the box....
what you need to do is get that stock manifold off and have me and Dave come down with a case of beer.
When the beer is gone we'll have it all worked out, it actually working might be another story.
But seriously, the three of us should brain storm over it.
When the beer is gone we'll have it all worked out, it actually working might be another story.
But seriously, the three of us should brain storm over it.
Do you have a compressor map for that turbo?
A map for a T4 62-1 is common search google. Not2fast.com would have a compressor map.
I would be up for beers too.
The down pipe, well hard to say. I think a flex pipe could help, also look into exhaust piping that semi's use. it is very bendable and I "think" it seals when it reachs temp. Just a thought. I was out in my truck tonight looking around too. I am coming to really like the safari manifold more and more.
I would be up for beers too.
The down pipe, well hard to say. I think a flex pipe could help, also look into exhaust piping that semi's use. it is very bendable and I "think" it seals when it reachs temp. Just a thought. I was out in my truck tonight looking around too. I am coming to really like the safari manifold more and more.
MSGGRunt, Cattledog here is what we do.
We design and get my guy to make a plate that will flip the manifold! This way the turbo hangs UNDERNEATH the exhaust manifold.
We then have the filter cover cut and an elbow welded on so the MAF is now vertical pointing down and one more 90* elbow and we're at the compressor's intake.
On the exhaust side, the pipe from the turbine now comes out and passes over the frame rail and under the AC line and over to the exhaust system.
This now leaves us with gobs of real estate above the manifold to use for cooling purposes. I'm personally thinking a nice big air/water intercooler so the path from the compressor to the throttle body is short and the pumping station would reside where the second battery tray usually goes.
The caveat is, I get to keep my YORK!!!
We just need an hour or two at your truck with out the stock manifold in place to check out the space, but this is a real possibility!
What do you guys think?
We design and get my guy to make a plate that will flip the manifold! This way the turbo hangs UNDERNEATH the exhaust manifold.
We then have the filter cover cut and an elbow welded on so the MAF is now vertical pointing down and one more 90* elbow and we're at the compressor's intake.
On the exhaust side, the pipe from the turbine now comes out and passes over the frame rail and under the AC line and over to the exhaust system.
This now leaves us with gobs of real estate above the manifold to use for cooling purposes. I'm personally thinking a nice big air/water intercooler so the path from the compressor to the throttle body is short and the pumping station would reside where the second battery tray usually goes.
The caveat is, I get to keep my YORK!!!
We just need an hour or two at your truck with out the stock manifold in place to check out the space, but this is a real possibility!
What do you guys think?
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- #27
I too thought of using flexible stainless steel exhaust tubing for the down pipe. I will have to eventuall step down to 2.5" which is the size of my cat. the rest of my exhaust is 3.0". I may go with a new cat that is 3.0". I hear this will make a difference.
Rick, I always look forward to your outside-the-box thinking. A turbo with a York would be nice. Not that I need another project to consume funds.... When and if the manifold can be flipped, do provisions for the stock EGR have to be considered? As you can see, and as Rick knows, this manifold does not have the machined area for the ERG gasses. (outlined in pen on first pic). But I like the idea.
Rick, I always look forward to your outside-the-box thinking. A turbo with a York would be nice. Not that I need another project to consume funds.... When and if the manifold can be flipped, do provisions for the stock EGR have to be considered? As you can see, and as Rick knows, this manifold does not have the machined area for the ERG gasses. (outlined in pen on first pic). But I like the idea.
That would be part of the beauty of this, the EGR path would be integrated into the flipping plate.
I see that plate as 1/2" stock that gets sandwiched between the head and the manifold. So the plate gets machined where we need the egr path to be and the manifold goes untouched.
If you look at the manifold only the very end hole at the rear wouldn't be used. All the existing studs would hold on the plate and then the plate would be drilled and studded to hold onto the manifold.
If this configuration will fit I'm probably going to go forward in making the plate. projects like this is all about packaging and utilizing the space beneath the manifold for the turbo and exhaust routing frees up a lot of space up top.
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Hmm, I want to see the current manifold in the truck with the turbo bolted up.
Isn't that the MAF kit on the red truck posted earlier. They used the same manifold we got, right?
Yeah yeah. Still want to see it in person.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
Just some advice in the design stage. When the owner of AVO was here, we discussed the 80 kits and all the different configurations of mounting, manifold up, manifold down. He mentioned that they did their first kit like the picture shown. They had massive heat issues on the body panels. He said in middle east test you could burn your hand on the hood after hi speed runs. Leave enough space for some heat shielding if you go this route.
Christo, does the avo kit run the turbo facing down? Any chance we could see the AVO manifold?
After looking at the pic above I'm even more driven to try and flip the manifold.
Since these manifolds haven't been run yet and are still a clean casting, how easily, if even possible is it to cut and weld them for the flip?
Since these manifolds haven't been run yet and are still a clean casting, how easily, if even possible is it to cut and weld them for the flip?
flipping plates are out, the water jacket up front is in the way of the new bolt location.
- Thread starter
- #37
So, these are my thoughts on managing the under hood temps:
Wrap the turbo with plenty of heat shielding
Wrap the downpipe
Insulate the exhaust manifold by having it ceramic coated (Maybe) or what about even wrapping the cast manifold with thermo wrap?
Adapt the OEM exhaust manifold heat shields if possible.
Use thermo heat reflective insulation on the hood over the turbo.
Heat is a concern, but something that with a little thought should be able to be managed as best as possible.
Wrap the turbo with plenty of heat shielding
Wrap the downpipe
Insulate the exhaust manifold by having it ceramic coated (Maybe) or what about even wrapping the cast manifold with thermo wrap?
Adapt the OEM exhaust manifold heat shields if possible.
Use thermo heat reflective insulation on the hood over the turbo.
Heat is a concern, but something that with a little thought should be able to be managed as best as possible.
COOL
dont flip it. just run it like it is. i run mine all day at 1300-1400 egt with no prob because heat is controled:
1. wrap downpipe in header wrap followed by allumenum wrapping
2. Don't use Turbo wrap for the turbine. It will be burned off in six months. And he gets stinky. Instead make a simple heat shield to cover the turbine. You will be amazed at how much cooler the Turbo feels versus the wrapping. Don't worry about burning the heat shield on the bottom side of your hood. Mine hasn't burned at all. myhood hasn't got that hot. The paint still looks fine.
3. By a bunch of that aluminum heat shilding hose wrap with the slit down the middle. Put it on all the hoses cables etc. this is very important
4. Be sure that you use a flexed joint for the waste gait to down pipe transition. I used a simple slip joint. Although the slip joint works just fine, if I hit the gas really hard and rev her from low rpms to 4500 rpms the slip joint will leak a bit and give a little puff of smoke you can often smell in the cab for a brief moment. I have been planning to weld in a slip joint but havn't gotten to it.
5. be sure you let her cool down good without water cooling. I burned my first turbo's bearings up in under a year due to this mistake. (actually wife did) You can purchase a water jacket bearing housing for your turbo for under a hundred bucks. good investment and easier to install now than in 6 months
get her done
dont flip it. just run it like it is. i run mine all day at 1300-1400 egt with no prob because heat is controled:
1. wrap downpipe in header wrap followed by allumenum wrapping
2. Don't use Turbo wrap for the turbine. It will be burned off in six months. And he gets stinky. Instead make a simple heat shield to cover the turbine. You will be amazed at how much cooler the Turbo feels versus the wrapping. Don't worry about burning the heat shield on the bottom side of your hood. Mine hasn't burned at all. myhood hasn't got that hot. The paint still looks fine.
3. By a bunch of that aluminum heat shilding hose wrap with the slit down the middle. Put it on all the hoses cables etc. this is very important
4. Be sure that you use a flexed joint for the waste gait to down pipe transition. I used a simple slip joint. Although the slip joint works just fine, if I hit the gas really hard and rev her from low rpms to 4500 rpms the slip joint will leak a bit and give a little puff of smoke you can often smell in the cab for a brief moment. I have been planning to weld in a slip joint but havn't gotten to it.
5. be sure you let her cool down good without water cooling. I burned my first turbo's bearings up in under a year due to this mistake. (actually wife did) You can purchase a water jacket bearing housing for your turbo for under a hundred bucks. good investment and easier to install now than in 6 months
get her done
I've always thought that the manifold-up setup on a 1FZFE is a bit backasswards in that there's much more room to work with if you flip the manifold down and have the down tube down as well. You also align the turbo casting with the air flow from fan upfront and the down tube much more towards the airflow of our undercarriages. Another added advantage ( I would think ) would be much less heatsoak into the hood, the hoses, some of our wiring harnesses, etc. Just an opinion but if you are at the engineering phase this might be a different direction to take at the top of the flow chart that then changes everything else later. HTH.
Edit: Doh! I just saw several posts above saying similar things.
- Thread starter
- #40
Thanks for the advice and info Dusty.
I was leaning towards the metal heat shield that you say is better. They have them on the Turbonetics web site. I was just unsure if they were as good as the wraps. I guess you answered that question. I may also take you advice on getting the water cooled center section before the turbo is bolted on. I'm having a hard time finding the flex/bellow joint for my wastegate. Where on the web are these sold? I need 1 1/4".
I was leaning towards the metal heat shield that you say is better. They have them on the Turbonetics web site. I was just unsure if they were as good as the wraps. I guess you answered that question. I may also take you advice on getting the water cooled center section before the turbo is bolted on. I'm having a hard time finding the flex/bellow joint for my wastegate. Where on the web are these sold? I need 1 1/4".
