96 LC Stoker Kit and Turbo ECU/Tuning Advice

[fzj80crew]

I am working with ORI Winchester to build a 96 Land Cruiser overlanding vehicle for North American trips. I looking for and would welcome any recommendations on ECUs (Haltech or Motec) and someone/company that can build a wiring harness and do a tune/program that will pass VA emissions. Also open to any other suggestions re-tuning the engine.

The following has been done to the 1fZ-FE engine:

-Brian Crower 101mm Stoke Billet Crank Billet "I" Beam Rods Custom Piston
- CNC Bore & Diamond Hone
- Ultrasonic & Hot Tank
- Supertech Valve Train Package (springs, retainers, locks, seals, guides)
- Valve Job w/ bowl blend
- +1mm VJ
Head Assembly
- Lash
- Strip, Bake, Blast Block
- Line Hone
- Freeze Plug Install
- Prep & Paint Block
- Installation of cylinder head, timing components, oil pump, oil pan, valve covers, gaskets
- Timing Kit, Full Gasket Set & Oil Pump
- ARP Main Stud Kit
-Precision 5858 Turbo/SS manifold

 

[scottryana]

Great stuff!

That turbo is going to be borderline too small for that engine. I have a 58mm turbo on a smaller 4.4L vs your 4.76L engine and with stock valve size and it is borderline too small. You will have quite a bit of heat from the IAT's to tend with.

There are two guys I would trust to tune this setup and I have no idea if either one would want to take on the job. First would be Jay Meagher at Real Street Performance in Sanford FL, the other would be John Reed Racing out in Hillsboro OR.

I am sure there are others but this is not going to be an easy task. The biggest problem is the stock ECU has not been hacked so you can't just tune it. And if you want to meet emissions you are going to have to have the standalone ECU send the signals that the stock ECU expects back to it or else you will throw Check Engine Lights and Codes. The other issues with the 1FZ is that it really is old technology, it is not coil on plug and the timing is computer controlled but you still have a distributor. The people that are getting serious about tuning this engine are adding reluctor wheels to get crank timing and going to coil on plug and getting rid of the distributor.

So my last question would be are you sure you want this level of complexity on an overland vehicle?

 

[fzj80crew]

Many thanks for your response.

What turbo would you recommend? We were shooting for less lag time to spool up.

I know the emissions thing is going to make it a lot more complicated but in a couple of years it will not have to do emissions so.. Also we were not looking to tune this build to max capacity, simply to make sure it was able to tow an XV3 trailer up and down mountains without stressing it.

As for complicated overlanding vehicle---we figured since we were only going to do the US and Canada we would have access to good fuel and mechanics. We were thinking that with a mild tune it might not be as risky or at least that was the thought. I had a few Grand Nationals that were really fast grocery-getters that were reliable and that was 80's tech. That said, would going sans turbo be a better option? And what would that be like to tune or program? Would it be easier to get through emissions?

 

[Heckraiser]

The "complicated" part is integrating the stand alone computer with the factory ECU so that you can pass an OBD scan for emissions purposes. If you have a tune/wiring problem, I wouldn't expect a single mechanic across the continent to be able to diagnose and fix except the guy who installed it, or if you have time to drop it off at a very competent tuner for a week while driving cross country.

Turbo is fine, and reliable. Stand alone is fine, and reliable. But making both work together in harmony *and* pass emisions is where it gets complicated.

For a simple overlanding vehicle that can shrug off a trailer, I would do gears (appropriate to tire size) and a basic 60mm-62mm turbo setup on the factory computer to keep it simple. Then when you hit your emissions cutoff date, go stand alone and tune it up if you still feel the need.

 

[scottryana]

I think with all the work that you have done, I would run the engine Naturally Aspirated for break in and see if you really need the turbo. Like @Heckraiser said I would regear and drive it NA for a while on the stock computer.

If you decide that you really need a turbo you can cross that bridge at that point, you might be out of emissions requirement by then. Your engine is already going to move a lot more air than stock so you are going to be close to tripping a CEL for air trims if you add a turbo I don't think you'll be able to do more than 4 maybe 5psi on the stock ECU.

Many thanks for your response.

What turbo would you recommend? We were shooting for less lag time to spool up.

I know the emissions thing is going to make it a lot more complicated but in a couple of years it will not have to do emissions so.. Also we were not looking to tune this build to max capacity, simply to make sure it was able to tow an XV3 trailer up and down mountains without stressing it.

As for complicated overlanding vehicle---we figured since we were only going to do the US and Canada we would have access to good fuel and mechanics. We were thinking that with a mild tune it might not be as risky or at least that was the thought. I had a few Grand Nationals that were really fast grocery-getters that were reliable and that was 80's tech. That said, would going sans turbo be a better option? And what would that be like to tune or program? Would it be easier to get through emissions?

 

[inkpot]

Sounds more like a racing engine than an Overlander. Probably going to want/need premium fuel at 20-30 cents a gallon extra, and not even available some rural areas. Maximum reliability is based on being as close to stock as possible. Just my humble opinion.

 

[scottryana]

I would guess the BC Stroker kit they used was 8.5:1 compression so that should be fine with regular gas. Premium would be nice but won't be a deal breaker at such low compression.

 

[inkpot]

I would guess the BC Stroker kit they used was 8.5:1 compression so that should be fine with regular gas. Premium would be nice but won't be a deal breaker at such low compression.

I thought of you boost it up you would want premium?

 

[inkpot]

With stock gears and stock tire size your rig should be able to pull that trailer easily. It grossed out at under 2500# and it is low profile for reduced wind resistance. I would put my money into regearing the axles as opposed to souping up the engine.

 

[scottryana]

Depends on compression ratio, boost level, and IAT. If you have a poor intercooler you need the extra knock resistance of premium fuel. If you are running low, boost, low compression and have the intake air charge cooled you can run regular. I always run premium but that is just for extra insurance and I am stock compression of 9:1 and 15-17psi.

I thought of you boost it up you would want premium?

 

[ThomasMore66]

See this thread: Haltech Elite 2000 ECU install on a FZJ 80 SC. Apparently haltech has a harness to work with the 80. My memory is that the claim in the thread was that it would work with a US spec vehicle. I'm new to this world so another Mudder looking at it would be enlightening.

 

[fzj80crew]

All,

Thank you for the continued advice and information. The stroker kit is a done deal so no changing my mind about that but the turbo has not been ordered. So the two phased approach ,until I do not have to get it through emissions, looks like it might be the best option unless one of the companies scottryana recommended will take the job.

i am putting 4:56's in it and since it did not have factory lockers I am adding those as well. The plan is to run 35's.

ThomasMore66-Thank you for the thread link. I will take a look at it.

So how hard will it be to program the ECU to get through emission with just the BC stroker build? Has anyone done this before?

 

[scottryana]

With the stock ECU you don't have to change anything with the stroker. If you want to add a standalone, the same problems you will have setting it up with the turbo will happen.

First thing I would do is email Haltech USA and see if they actually have a plug and play USDM ECU coming to market. I have my doubts. They have one they are working on for Australia 1FZ's but they do not have OBDII or emissions. If Haltech USA confirms that they do indeed have a plug and play emissions compliant 1FZFE ECU coming to market than a lot of your problems might be solved.

But I would still break your new engine in naturally aspirated.

Haltech's contact info:

Haltech USA
750 Miles Point Way, Lexington, KY 40510
Phone: (888) 298 8116
Sales enquiries: usa@haltech.com

All,

Thank you for the continued advice and information. The stroker kit is a done deal so no changing my mind about that but the turbo has not been ordered. So the two phased approach ,until I do not have to get it through emissions, looks like it might be the best option unless one of the companies scottryana recommended will take the job.

i am putting 4:56's in it and since it did not have factory lockers I am adding those as well. The plan is to run 35's.

ThomasMore66-Thank you for the thread link. I will take a look at it.

So how hard will it be to program the ECU to get through emission with just the BC stroker build? Has anyone done this before?

 

[inkpot]

The 4.56 gears over 35’s is close to stock final drive ratio. I would highly recommend 4.88’s which will give you just a small RPM/power advantage to pull your trailer. I had that setup with 35 s and 4.88s when I bought my rig and I really liked it both on and off road.

 

[ThomasMore66]

What is the experience with Brian Crower parts? Positive? Takes the 1fz to 5L.

 

[scottryana]

It does not take the 1FZ to 5L not sure where they get that number from. It takes it to 100mm bore, 101mm stroke or 4.76L

I have a 58mm turbo on a smaller 4.4L vs your 4.76L engine

What is the experience with Brian Crower parts? Positive? Takes the 1fz to 5L.

 

[Kaninja]

Great stuff!
The biggest problem is the stock ECU has not been hacked so you can't just tune it.

Is this an obstacle that can be overcome? I mean is the 80 with it's lethargic 1FZFE so far off the tuner companies radar that nobody has bothered to try? Or perhaps Mr. T hired a team of crack programmers to make this next to impossible.......or is the ECU so rudimentary that it would be pointless to hack it?

If it isn't the last one, perhaps we contact the tuner community and see what it would take and how much it would cost. I would love a tuner that could be used with the stock ECU. I would also be willing to put up $200 towards this goal to have a programmable ECU. I mean if a Chevy Silverado can have a tuned ECU........

Just thoughts out loud. I would love to avoid goind piggyback while still having higher boost levels down low.

 

[scottryana]

You can't hack a cell phone from 1996 to have the same functions as a cell phone from 2018. The technology just isn't there. It is the same with the 80 ECU. You can't ask it to take control of things like wideband O2's, MAP sensors, etc that it knows nothing about.

Is this an obstacle that can be overcome? I mean is the 80 with it's lethargic 1FZFE so far off the tuner companies radar that nobody has bothered to try? Or perhaps Mr. T hired a team of crack programmers to make this next to impossible.......or is the ECU so rudimentary that it would be pointless to hack it?

If it isn't the last one, perhaps we contact the tuner community and see what it would take and how much it would cost. I would love a tuner that could be used with the stock ECU. I would also be willing to put up $200 towards this goal to have a programmable ECU. I mean if a Chevy Silverado can have a tuned ECU........

Just thoughts out loud. I would love to avoid goind piggyback while still having higher boost levels down low.

 

[Kaninja]

You can't hack a cell phone from 1996 to have the same functions as a cell phone from 2018. The technology just isn't there. It is the same with the 80 ECU. You can't ask it to take control of things like wideband O2's, MAP sensors, etc that it knows nothing about.

True enough. Question answered. Thanks.

 

[ThomasMore66]

That’s the best analogy I’ve seen.