From what I've read on this forum, I plan to box. But if you're incorporating it with a rear bumper, that sounds like a good idea- mind if I steal it? I also need to consider what to do for more fuel
Builds 77 FJ40 Build, It begins...and may take a while
- Thread starter franklin40
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- #122
i don't mind if you steal it as long as i get royalties for whatever you sell!! kidding … i stole the idea from the 4plus bumper i have on my 62 so i can't even take the credit.
for all you welders out there can you give me some advice. does the bluish colour on the metal beside the weld mean i've got my heat too high? i don't want to compromise the strength of the metal if i'm too hot. i think the welds are strong and these aren't going to take a ton of stress but when it comes to spring hangers etc i want to make sure i don't compromise anything by not understanding what i'm doing!!
for all you welders out there can you give me some advice. does the bluish colour on the metal beside the weld mean i've got my heat too high? i don't want to compromise the strength of the metal if i'm too hot. i think the welds are strong and these aren't going to take a ton of stress but when it comes to spring hangers etc i want to make sure i don't compromise anything by not understanding what i'm doing!!
pistonpete
SILVER Star
Welds look just fine my friend, nice build 
your welds look fine.
criteria to look for:
minimal undercutting on the sides of the weld (too slow, or too much heat for wire speed)
not too much crowning (too fast wire spreed, too cold), (not moving in a circular motion)
straight sides (maintaining same speed)
good color, white to blue middle, even temperature across weld - if anything, the other welds look a bit cold and too little wire... but they're okay.
You can also vary your speed that you run your circles - if one material is thicker than the other, hold your heat more on the thicker side then the thinner side (this comes with practice).
too hot and you blow through... too cold and it falls apart... not clean, and it won't hold much (easy to spot with porous welds).
criteria to look for:
minimal undercutting on the sides of the weld (too slow, or too much heat for wire speed)
not too much crowning (too fast wire spreed, too cold), (not moving in a circular motion)
straight sides (maintaining same speed)
good color, white to blue middle, even temperature across weld - if anything, the other welds look a bit cold and too little wire... but they're okay.
You can also vary your speed that you run your circles - if one material is thicker than the other, hold your heat more on the thicker side then the thinner side (this comes with practice).
too hot and you blow through... too cold and it falls apart... not clean, and it won't hold much (easy to spot with porous welds).
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- Thread starter
- #125
well I've been put on hold with my project still waiting for parts. i am getting ready to order my springs. i'm going to get some alcans and have the lift as minimal as possible to keep the springs relatively flat. i know a lot of guys say that the 60 series length is a good way to go for ride quality. as i can put my hangers anywhere i want them this wouldn't be a hard mod but thought i should check to see if its worth it. i want a softish ride as it'll see a lot of daily driving but not so soft that handling goes out the window. any thoughts/ experience to chime in here? is there much difference between stock length 40 springs and 60 length when it comes to a spring over? i know there are lots of threads discussing how to do it and i've read a lot but just wondering IF it's worth doing.
the longer the spring, the more they can dial in the compression rates - with that said, there's as much opportunity to get it wrong as there is with shorter springs. For me, I have a reasonably-local spring manufacturer (Benz springs), so I can talk to them about what rates I want for the springs.... and there's where my advice will be, talk to a manufacturer and tell them what you want. For that talk, you need to have a pretty accurate weight and amount of travel you expect from those springs.
if Softride makes a spring for the '60, perhaps start there; however, the 60 weighs more thus the spring material would be stiffer... and don't be afraid of custom springs. E.g. I had some "custom" springs built for a 82(iirc) Chevy 4x4 that came with the Rancho skateboard springs. Softride was a month out, so I had Benz springs build me some springs. That was the best riding, 6" lifted truck I've ever driven... and the cost was comparable to Softride springs.
Another way to help is to use rubber bushings rather than poly.
if Softride makes a spring for the '60, perhaps start there; however, the 60 weighs more thus the spring material would be stiffer... and don't be afraid of custom springs. E.g. I had some "custom" springs built for a 82(iirc) Chevy 4x4 that came with the Rancho skateboard springs. Softride was a month out, so I had Benz springs build me some springs. That was the best riding, 6" lifted truck I've ever driven... and the cost was comparable to Softride springs.
Another way to help is to use rubber bushings rather than poly.
I did a spring over in the rear with stock springs and a su in the front with 3" longer than stock 5" lift alcans. It flexes great, I still have yet to max out the flex and Ive done some pretty tough trails so far with it. Rides 100% better than the 4" sua lift from man a fre I had before. I like the ride, the only issue with stock soa up front springs is some say its a little too soft for daily driving. Thats why I went sua front. Too much flex can be bad too btw. If you want a pic of it let me know and I will pm it too you of my set up.
- Thread starter
- #128
simple things can take a while. I decided that while waiting for parts I should clean the shop up so I'm not working with nice new parts in a dirty environment. it took most of a day to get it cleaned up. once that was done I started washing some parts in my parts washer. I need a small hand brush and one of my chemical gloves seems to have walked to that didn't last long. I then found my steering kit and realized there was some surface rust forming on the parts in their boxes. sanded and cleaned them up and put a coat of self etching primer on them. hopefully that'll help keep the rust from starting again. I'll look for a good finish paint this week and finish them up. it's nice to see parts getting ready to go together. I have such a long way to go yet but at least I still have the desire.
there's still quite a pile of parts to be washed. old axles are also in to be disassembled.
I was doing some measuring and figure a spring over will give about six inches of lift with a given spring/shackle combo. I have about a two inch lift spring (8 inches of free arch no weight on the spring) and had built about a two inch spacer in my spring hanger to match a man a few shackle reversal. does any one know how much that shackle reversal supposedly gave lift wise? I'm trying to decide how much lift I actually have right now. I have a slightly longer shackle so I'm thinking all together I'm probably a five inch lift on a spring under. a 60 series spring built with one inch less arch than stock (5 inches of free arch spring) would give me only about one inch more lift than I have right now once he shackle reversal and spacers are gone. does that make sense?
there's still quite a pile of parts to be washed. old axles are also in to be disassembled.
I was doing some measuring and figure a spring over will give about six inches of lift with a given spring/shackle combo. I have about a two inch lift spring (8 inches of free arch no weight on the spring) and had built about a two inch spacer in my spring hanger to match a man a few shackle reversal. does any one know how much that shackle reversal supposedly gave lift wise? I'm trying to decide how much lift I actually have right now. I have a slightly longer shackle so I'm thinking all together I'm probably a five inch lift on a spring under. a 60 series spring built with one inch less arch than stock (5 inches of free arch spring) would give me only about one inch more lift than I have right now once he shackle reversal and spacers are gone. does that make sense?
- Thread starter
- #129
spent time cleaning parts and painting. steering parts all painted.
also cleaned up some greasy parts. I love aluminum housings and zinc plates parts. no rust!!
before
after
also cleaned up some greasy parts. I love aluminum housings and zinc plates parts. no rust!!
before
after
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- #130
turbo and manifolds all cleaned up as well as my vacuum pump. not sure yet about keeping stock turbo or looking for a bigger compressor wheel yet. I figured i should at least clean it up to take it to the diesel tuner. I swear there was 2 pounds of oil soaked dirt on each of these parts. man are they filthy. next time I pull an engine out of a vehicle remind me to pressure wash it first. not a word of exaggeration I swept up about 10 pounds of dirt that fell of the 40 and Mercedes during disassembly.
in another note I ordered my springs today from alcan. I'm trying to keep as low as possible with a spring over as its my day driver and I want to be able to park in my garage. I got 40 series springs for up front and hey have similar lengths to the 60 series but with the off center spring pin. that way I can keep the front axle where it is realities to the way the truck should sit. I got 60 series springs for the back to add more flex as they are longer. I got them built with an inch less arch than stock so they won't sit too high. hopefully they simulate a broken in spring a little better than waiting for 20 years of use to do it for me.
in another note I ordered my springs today from alcan. I'm trying to keep as low as possible with a spring over as its my day driver and I want to be able to park in my garage. I got 40 series springs for up front and hey have similar lengths to the 60 series but with the off center spring pin. that way I can keep the front axle where it is realities to the way the truck should sit. I got 60 series springs for the back to add more flex as they are longer. I got them built with an inch less arch than stock so they won't sit too high. hopefully they simulate a broken in spring a little better than waiting for 20 years of use to do it for me.
- Thread starter
- #131
springs should be shipped out by the end of the week. i went with a low lift alcan. can anyone confirm that the stock fj40 u bolts are used in a spring over conversion, just flipped? i want to order new u bolts with the springs and need to make sure i get the right ones.
ya they are the same. I got my u bolt plates from jesterfab, they were really nice and a good deal.
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- #133
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- #134
I'm trying to get all my hangers and shackles together and started doing some reading. i understand the stock pre 80s shackles are 2.75 inches long pin to pin. the post 80s are 3.5inches pin to pin (please correct me if I'm wrong there). with a spring over and the above mentioned springs is a 2.75 inch shackle long enough to allow the springs to really flex or is the 3.5 inch length better. remember i want to keep this truck as low as i can for the spring over. i thing i bought the wrong width hangers as they were meant for the stock 2.5 inch width spring but my alcans are 2.75 inch wide. now to decide if i get new hangers or get a shackle with an offset like the ruffstuff ones that allow a large than stock width spring. oh well i'm sure there are mistakes that will be made along the way.
and they say my 3 and 4 link system is confusing... 
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- #136
ha ha. no kidding. a spring over shouldn't be too confusing but I'm working with non stock parts so it's not a simple put the spring on top conversion. I just don't want to limit my suspension by using too short of a shackle. I'll probably reorder the right hangers today. I don't want this just pieced together with wrong parts because that's cheaper. I want it done right the first time
which makes you pretty-darn-cool in my book. Any schmuck can build a Jeep 
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- #138
wow I've been waiting a while but it's amazing how a new part can rekindle the desire to get going again. I just got word my axles are done and ready to ship. I'm hoping to have them in the next couple weeks. I'll be able to start mocking stuff up for the driveline. just need my adapter kit. 4x4 labs suggested they might be ready in the next few weeks as well but it's already been 16 months since I ordered it. I'm pretty excited to see what the guys at diamond axles have come up with!! I'll post pictures when I get them of course
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- #139
I still don't know what length of shackle is best to use. any thoughts out there?
the shortest possible.... the longer the shackle, the more out-of-alignment the front axle, and the more vibrations you get out of the rear... not to mention that long shackles (even braced ones) allow side-to-side movement that makes steering (at best) vague and at worse a 4 lane car (meaning you need 4 lanes to keep it between the ditches at highway speeds.
