62 Timing Light.. which one? (1 Viewer)

[MrMacdugal]

So in an effort to try to make my 1988 62 run as she should, I feel I need to check the timing as it has been suggested to me before but still has not been completed. Often times the truck runs sluggish and others it runs just fine. It idles pretty nicely at 650 or so RPMs but does have a shutter as it sits and idles from time to time. Sometimes it shutters and other times not. about 50% of the time, once warmed up she runs fine. When I get in to drive I'm always wondering what mood shes in.. sometimes to my pleasure she is happy from the get go.
So I had the truck down at my garage for some maintenance and while it was there I asked them to check the timing. They told me that they tried and tried but couldnt get it so they could see the light in the hole. They were convinced they have the wrong timing light. For the record, they are a pretty good shop whom I trust with all of my vehicles and our work vehicles. They always do good work and at a really great price. For instance they charged me $150 to remove and replace my radiator a few days ago. I mostly let them do the big stuff because they have all day(its what they do) and I rarely have the time.
Since I am dumb and can really only turn a wrench left or right I seek advice. I know this is a simple job, but its just kind of over my head. Its really not, but it is because I have zero experience with timing and timing lights. I have yet to see it actually performed on a 3fe to where I can replicate it.

So first, is there a specific timing light anyone can recommend?
Second, has anyone done a good video that I can watch or follow along?
I gave the shop my FSM opened to the timing pages in hopes they would read it before trying the timing, but something tells me they did not.
Someone come help me( jk)... I have beer, weed, food and what I think are funny jokes. I dont really drink so the beer is all yours
Weed is recreational in my state btw... no harm no foul

 

[Randy88FJ62]

It's a bitch to see the small timing hole at the back of the passenger side engine bay. Complete horrid gymnastics job. but doable with a flashlight and mirror

My friend brought over his timing light. Not sure what kind you would need or which ones wouldn't work.

 

[Saucerman]

That's one video I have never seen. I haven't tackled that job either because it is a bit daunting even with the FSM. Seems like a 2 person job, but again I don't know that the hell I'm doing.

 

[SteveH]

The reasons your shop may have freaked out is that the marks are not on the harmonic balancer, like an old Chevy.

Any inductive timing light will work - sold at your local Goodwill or ARC store for a few bucks, or Sears. Clip the sensor lead to the #1 plug wire (closest to the radiator) and connect the clips to the battery. I ended up jamming the light down alongside the engine and taping the switch on, so that I could move my head around to see the timing marks while the light blinked. No, it's not easy, but it's possible - you might need a mirror. Follow the FSM as far as any other nuances!

Cheap light: https://www.walmart.com/ip/INDUCTIVE-TIMING-LIGHT/14644663

 

[Spike Strip]

Any timing light will work, but if you're gonna buy one, get a BRIGHT (Xenon?) bulb model. You'll thank me later.

The multi-function model is nice if you need to adjust points or just want a handy Tachometer when you're adjusting things, otherwise the model that's just a light is fine.

I have the pro model, but all their different models on same page:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVYH7W?tag=dabestproducts-20&th=1

You can also find used, vintage SUN lights on ebay for good prices. They are very good.

 

[mwebfj60]

Maybe they didn’t put a jumper in the test plug? A copy of that section of the FSM would help and be sure you’re looking for a line and bb size indicator, not numbers on the flywheel.

 

[2mbb]

Edit: I had to make some edits because I only know the 2F and not the 3FE. This thread has a pretty good write up: Timing Adjustment for a 3FE Motor

Both my timing lights (Sun and Craftsman) are from the late 70's or early 80's. We (my dad and/or me) used to have one that did not have an inductive pickup for the #1 spark plug wire. It seems they are all inductive these days which is a good thing, but if you buy used, go inductive. I see battery powered (self powered) timing lights are available, but it's easy enough to clip the power cables to the battery posts...it's right there anyway.

As said, the timing marks on the F-series engine are hard to see. I like the idea of taping the button because it is difficult to get the light into a position where it will shine on the flywheel window. Before the first attempt, it might be good to remove the flywheel cover (from underneath the car) and rotate the flywheel until you can see where the marks are. You can then clean the area with brake cleaner or another solvent. I painted a strip over the "line" so it's easy to find when doing valve adjustments.

Otherwise checking and adjusting the timing is pretty easy. Turning off overhead lights will help make the timing light seem more bright. If you need to make an adjustment, loosen the distributor hold down screw and turn the distributor one way or another. I think every 10 degrees of twisting the distributor results in 20 degrees movement on the flywheel, so you usually don't have to move the distributor much to make an adjustment.

 

[gregnash]

Yeah I literally have my dad's old SEARS inductive timing light that he purchased at some point in the early 80s and it works perfectly. Lots of people believe the timing mark is somewhere on the front of the engine (first time my dad saw the truck and brought me the light he asked what I was doing when I was shooting at the bellhousing) but ultimately its on the flywheel. Other problem could be that it is so gunked up that you cannot actually see the marks (the bb or the line) and thus cannot see anything, or they just did not know to move the little door that lets you view...

Get under the truck, pull the flywheel inspection cover, put in neutral so you can turn the flywheel by hand (making sure the vehicle is secure please) and then find the marks, clean them up and paint them with some nail polish (white or yellow preferably). This will make it so they will easily show up when using the light.

 

[2mbb]

I reread the original post and while the question is about timing lights, the engine condition that is being addressed does not seem likely to me to be related to setting the timing at idle. Generally timing is set and doesn't change.

The condition could be related to sticking advance or non working advance. This can be checked with a timing light with a degree wheel if the mechanic knows the relationship between engine speed and advance.

You should be able to use the timing light to check for misfire by connecting the inductor to the different cylinders and watching how even the strobe is blinking. While I have tried this in the past, I have not had much success in really detecting any problems.

My 2F emissions manual has a troubleshooting section. It does mention timing as a possible cause for poor acceleration, but I doubt it is a cause for an intermittent problem, as described. I would check through all issues with fuel and ignition: fuel filter, supply pressure, injectors/fuel supply, spark plugs, spark plug wires, coil, igniter, distributor advance, etc.

 

[Rube]

I bought this one and love it. Does more than I’d ever need. You can definitely get cheaper but I figured I’d keep this a while.

INNOVA 5568 Pro-Timing Light with Tool Case https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVU8J8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_jeUgCbY1BD2QM

 

[toyotaspeed90]

While I haven't timed my 62 yet, one thing I try to do is paint a little bit of sparkly nail polish (yes, seriously) on the timing mark. Makes seeing what you need incredibly easy under just about any timing conditions (so long as you can see physically see the pointer).

Grease pens work too, I guess....

 

[MrMacdugal]

Yeah I literally have my dad's old SEARS inductive timing light that he purchased at some point in the early 80s and it works perfectly. Lots of people believe the timing mark is somewhere on the front of the engine (first time my dad saw the truck and brought me the light he asked what I was doing when I was shooting at the bellhousing) but ultimately its on the flywheel. Other problem could be that it is so gunked up that you cannot actually see the marks (the bb or the line) and thus cannot see anything, or they just did not know to move the little door that lets you view...

Get under the truck, pull the flywheel inspection cover, put in neutral so you can turn the flywheel by hand (making sure the vehicle is secure please) and then find the marks, clean them up and paint them with some nail polish (white or yellow preferably). This will make it so they will easily show up when using the light.

My mechanic was literally doing all of these things. He mentioned having to try to move the flywheel a little at a time so he could try to get it to line up. However he said he just couldnt get the light to shine on the right spot which is why he thinks he has the wrong light. This must be where the mirror would comes into play, but makes me feel a little better knowing he was doing it all pretty correctly other than being able to complete the task. So we are going in the right direction.
As noted below setting the timing or checking to be sure it is correct may not even fix my engine issue, but it has been suggested to be sure it is right so in an effort to check off everything on the list, i feel it needs to be done.

 

[MrMacdugal]

I reread the original post and while the question is about timing lights, the engine condition that is being addressed does not seem likely to me to be related to setting the timing at idle. Generally timing is set and doesn't change.

The condition could be related to sticking advance or non working advance. This can be checked with a timing light with a degree wheel if the mechanic knows the relationship between engine speed and advance.

You should be able to use the timing light to check for misfire by connecting the inductor to the different cylinders and watching how even the strobe is blinking. While I have tried this in the past, I have not had much success in really detecting any problems.

My 2F emissions manual has a troubleshooting section. It does mention timing as a possible cause for poor acceleration, but I doubt it is a cause for an intermittent problem, as described. I would check through all issues with fuel and ignition: fuel filter, supply pressure, injectors/fuel supply, spark plugs, spark plug wires, coil, igniter, distributor advance, etc.

You could be entirely right about this. IT has occured to me that fuel delivery or spark/misfire and all of the related you mentioned could also be the culprit. These are on the list to check off as well. I try not to overwhelm the guys I'm bringing it to. They know what I'm fighting, so I will sort of give them a short list of things and the why, let them do it and report back to me. Still at the beginning of the list...

Thanks very much for all of your input. I'm trying not to ask questions that will result in a response citing how useful the search feature is..

 

[Willard]

I use an old SUN timing light, from around the 70 or 80's. this is when they were still sold in America.
I have one of those cool old tune up kits they made. Works great, that trick on cleaning up the timing marks is absolutely key.

 

[RockDoc]

Am I the only one who times by vacuum gauge and ear?

 

[gregnash]

My mechanic was literally doing all of these things. He mentioned having to try to move the flywheel a little at a time so he could try to get it to line up. However he said he just couldnt get the light to shine on the right spot which is why he thinks he has the wrong light. This must be where the mirror would comes into play, but makes me feel a little better knowing he was doing it all pretty correctly other than being able to complete the task. So we are going in the right direction.
As noted below setting the timing or checking to be sure it is correct may not even fix my engine issue, but it has been suggested to be sure it is right so in an effort to check off everything on the list, i feel it needs to be done.

The mirror part is what scares/concerns me. It is literally a straight shot back from the distributor to the window (behind and to the passenger side of the PCV). While my truck is desmogged I don't remember there being THAT MUCH wiring and tubing over on that side to cause issue. I will go out at lunch and try to take a pic of where the window is at just to ensure you are both looking at the same area.

 

[gregnash]

Am I the only one who times by vacuum gauge and ear?

This is old school and takes a more experienced person than many of us. But yes, when I am timing the truck after some adjustments first it by sound, then the light and the vacuum gauge come out.

 

[Seth S]

I have a Snap on MT2261 which was pricey even when I bought it 24 years ago as a professional. But it’s got a lot of functions that can be handy. I’ve used plenty of simple lights too. I think any will work as long as you can get to the timing marks.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, I use an old Sun light. Mike

 

[toyotaspeed90]

Am I the only one who times by vacuum gauge and ear?

I've done that on 350s.

I've done it just by ear/feel on first gen MR2s (4qge engines) but I know exactly how it should feel.