5 speed auto

[dogfishlake]

I've got 35" tires and 4.88 gears now, and with the supercharger it rarely downshifts on big hills doing highway speeds, tons of torque. With the 6l80 it might drop a gear passing but I doubt (hope )not much else. Just seems like a perfect combo to me. The GM trans doesn't seem like selling out so much since Toyota subs out their transmissions to Aisin anyway. GM transmissions are in tons of different brands just like Aisin is. I don't dislike the ls engine either, far from it, but I am hoping to see what the 1fz-fe powered (and modified) 80 is capable of.

 

[bloc]

Every time it bakes me going down the highway all I can think of is that huge power loss. A 6l80 is 20-30% less power consumption plus 2 more gears so I still am hoping.

Where are you getting these numbers? And have we established how much of the landcruiser drivetrain loss occurs in the HF2AV transfer case? That would add to the 6L80 loss, obviously.

If you want to keep it as much Toyota as possible, then a turbo 1FZ and a 6L80 tranny might get you partially there.

With an OD that tall it'd likely be getting into boost heavily just to cruise down the freeway, which would make your mileage horrific.

And 25-30k isn't apples to apples when compared to turbo 1FZ and 6L80. You can do the vortec swap yourself for FAR less than that. And you'd effectively be doing the turbo and 6L80 yourself.

 

[scottryana]

I can't remember where I posted it but there was an Aussie truck with a 6.0 or 6.2L and GM trans 6L80 coupled to fulltime case and that truck put down 267awhp. So about double what we see with the 1FZ, but still a huge loss from its rated 400hp.

 

[Dragos80]

I am going by what people are actually printing here as a true amount for a V8 swap.
If they are lying, I am wrong too.

If you are in the max boost range, the MPG would actually be good. The engine would be coasting within the max boost effortlessly. I would know that.

 

[dogfishlake]

I can't remember where I posted it but there was an Aussie truck with a 6.0 or 6.2L and GM trans 6L80 coupled to fulltime case and that truck put down 267awhp. So about double what we see with the 1FZ, but still a huge loss from its rated 400hp.

What was your crank horsepower and wheel horsepower on your grey truck? Did you estimate crank horsepower?

 

[dogfishlake]

I am not arguing the wisdom of an LS swap, it's just not what I am interested in right now. As far as the efficiency of the a343 vs 6l80, I don't remember where I got those numbers but I kind of don't care. I'll take the extra 2 gears and would love a taller overdrive in my setup.

 

[bloc]

We have no clue of the extent they copied the factory intake/exhaust/tune to know what the crank HP was on that Aussie swap. Plus, some of the 6.0s were rated as low as 320hp.

So yes, there may be a ton of loss in our transfer case, but that truck not making much whp isn't good proof of that.

I am going by what people are actually printing here as a true amount for a V8 swap.
If they are lying, I am wrong too.

If you are in the max boost range, the MPG would actually be good. The engine would be coasting within the max boost effortlessly. I would know that.

25-30k for someone else to do the work, sure. Half that for a low mileage junk yard sourced powertrain and the owner doing all of the work.

Max boost on a gas engine efficient? Absolutely wrong. Full-load AFR should be approaching 11:1 on a boosted engine. Diesel? Sure. They get MORE efficient with boost, to a point. But gas engines are very different because you have to avoid igniting the already mixed fuel and air too soon.

 

[scottryana]

I await your dynojet awd dyno numbers The engine was rated for 403hp, only made 267awhp. Like I said a nice 2x gain over the 1FZ stock ~135awhp, but still a 30% loss. The A343 drivetrain sees about 35-37% loss so it's a small efficiency gain.

We have no clue of the extent they copied the factory intake/exhaust/tune to know what the crank HP was on that Aussie swap. Plus, some of the 6.0s were rated as low as 320hp.

So yes, there may be a ton of loss in our transfer case, but that truck not making much whp isn't good proof of that.




25-30k for someone else to do the work, sure. Half that for a low mileage junk yard sourced powertrain and the owner doing all of the work.

Max boost on a gas engine efficient? Absolutely wrong. Full-load AFR should be approaching 11:1 on a boosted engine. Diesel? Sure. They get MORE efficient with boost, to a point. But gas engines are very different because you have to avoid igniting the already mixed fuel and air too soon.

 

[Dragos80]

I am basing my assumption on diesel engine behavior.
At max torque actually, under no load or very little load, flat terrain, freeway, etc, the engine is working at a very low stress, low demand power band.
It can yield a very good return on your MPG because the engine is not struggling at all with what the driver is requesting out of the engine at that time.

 

[bloc]

max torque =/= "very low stress, low demand"

When boost goes up in a gasoline engine the AFR must be enriched to keep the cylinder cool on a port-injected engine. Diesel or gasoline direct injection is different. How much boost would be required for the HP demands of pushing an 80 through the air at 70mph with 300rpm less than stock is a big question..

I await your dynojet awd dyno numbers The engine was rated for 403hp, only made 267awhp. Like I said a nice 2x gain over the 1FZ stock ~135awhp, but still a 30% loss. The A343 drivetrain sees about 35-37% loss so it's a small efficiency gain.

Like I said, we still have no idea what they did for intake/exhaust/tuning. On mine I'm learning even things like the stock GM IAT sensor inside the MAF housing being prone to heat soak is terrible for our setups necessitating an external IAT sensor for it to run right.

My L92 is also rated at 403 but most likely won't be making that rated hp based on the mileage, stock 1FZ air cleaner, and mechanical fan. Plus.. no AWD dynojets anywhere near me (nor a need for me to pay for dyno time for online debates), so some math based on weight and acceleration numbers will have to suffice. Hardly scientific, but in my case I can document things like exhaust setup, tuning, and to some extent how much of a restriction the stock airbox is.

My point stands though.. that truck isn't a concrete example of our transfer cases sucking because of the sheer number of variables.

 

[mehbohdi]

Just my .02 I've built many engines dyno'd a few of them on chassis dyno's for tuning. 200 rwhp isn't bad at all. One can definitely get themselves into trouble. IMO anything over that is just big happy grin factor.

 

[Dragos80]

@bloc
My opinion is very biased though. I drive a diesel every single day and monitor the parameters a few times a week for a good amount of time.
My max torque comes in at 1750 RPM and I set the cruise control at that speed and RPM.

I also think you might be right and at the same time my observation was somewhat erroneous.
With the cruise control on, there is 0 boost driving on a flat piece of highway.
It is possible the fuel economy is really great there since the turbo is not sending boost, which would require more fuel too.

I also remember natural aspirated engines also have their fuel economy better at max torque.
I'm sure there is more to it than I can think of right now.

 

[Dragos80]

I'm watching another thread here in which a Mercedes diesel engine was mated to a Toyota 80 transmission. Apparently in Kazakstan people can actually accomplish a lot more, probably for a lot less too.

 

[Dragos80]

PCS no longer makes this conversion kit. Found this PDF article online. There is no more mention of their 6 speed conversion anywhere on their site, so I believe even this pdf format will go away soon. I'll have to post it here for future reference.


"6-Speed 4L80 Valve Body

The PCS 6-speed 4L80E valve body enables the 4L80E to operate as a 5-speed or 6-speed and provides electronically controlled engine braking.

The process of engineering the 6-speed 4L80E began by studying the fluid flow diagrams of the stock 4L80E. The PCS engineers studied every pressure, every orifice, every shift time, until a design was reached that produced factory shift quality in every gear.

When evaluating the gear ratio steps using the stock gear set and the new valve body, it becomes apparent that the step from fourth to fifth of 1.11 may not be a large enough ratio change for most applications. However, using the valve body as a 5 speed (skip the 1.11 ratio) creates more balanced gear steps and better drivability.

In situations where the gear set can be changed, PCS offers a gear set that results in optimum gear ratio steps for most 6-speed applications. This gear set is manufactured using the factory process, not a welded modification to an existing gear set. When combined with an optimized gear set, the 6-speed transmission maintains the engine in its most efficient operating range, thus improving performance and fuel efficiency. Shift quality is also improved by reducing the engine RPM drop during the shift. PCS can perform simulations using your engine data to evaluate the optimum gear set for your application.

While the engineers were studying the valve body, they also added a solenoid that enables electronically controlled engine braking. This enables modes such as tow/haul, and greatly increases the performance and driving experience when using paddle shifters to downshift.

The PCS valve body kit contains a 100% factory new valve body, not a remanufactured unit. All solenoids, plates, gaskets, and internal harness are designed and manufactured to specifications that meet or exceed factory specifications."

https://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/Performance_Aftermarket/Catalog/PCS_CATALOG_0128.pdf

 

[Dragos80]

For future reference.

Maybe these guys can fab an adapter plate 1FZ + ....

Trans Adapter Kits | ATF Speed.com




Other crazy things have been done before:
1992 SC400 + A650E + Aftermarket TCU = Unknown Territory. - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion




I still need a transmission engineer to either get this idea out of my head or actually make more sense out of it and how it can be accomplished.


A343 with 1st gear from A442 (2.95:1 better than 2.804) plus a smart ass valve body (as TCI and PCS have done it before in the GM 4L80 6 spd conversion).
2.95
2.22
1.53
1.15 (not entirely necessary)
1.00
.753


The 1st - 3rd gear spread would be fabulous.


Advantages:
- maintain the current transmission case (no need for adapter plates to the engine or transfer case)
- less work involved in getting everything together
- maintain the shifter and shifter links


Cons:
- R&D cost $?????
- very likely to need an extra computer to translate the shifts to the engine ECU (guessing $700 - $2200)
- cost - performance ratio vs other transmission setups or even V8 swaps... unknown

 

[Dragos80]

Does anybody know what the spline count is for HF2AV? Curious if it matches the A650 count.

 

[cjmoon]

It's the same 100% interchangable on the back side

 

[Dragos80]

Interesting. I knew the A750 fits well, but had no idea about A650. Thanks.
If it is the same, then we only got a few more things to worry about. Bellhousing, total length, torque converter, computer and shifter. (not much).

I got a Japanese engine and tranny import place around me, I want to see if the have both the A343 and A650 in their shop so I can compare the engine side of the transmission and their respective length.

Hopefully I'll get there sometime before the end of this year.

 

[Dragos80]

For future reference



A650 transmission controller.

Dicktator Transmission Controller

 

[cjmoon]

It's the same 100% interchangable on the back side

Wait sorry a650 prabably not a750f out of a cruiser/lx yes. Sorry for the miss guidance the a750f found in the 4runner has a different tail housing and output shaft as well