3FE vs 2/3F carb cyl. head

[Spook50]

Here's a crazy idea: install the 3FE throttle body on a large volume tuned runner intake manifold with port injection.
Fixes the unequal runner length tuning problem, and the unequal mixture distribution wet manifold problem.

Well I would've still been using my 3FE head, so that would take care of the mixture issue as I'd be retaining the port fuel injection.

Much as I love to think (and overthink) about stuff like this, I honestly doubt I would really go whole hog and do it. After that much modification and work, I may as well go the LS route.

Though I WOULD love to keep the reliability of the F engine and have just a little more power......

*stop it Spook you have enough on your plate*

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Way over your head, lol. Jim is saying use a 3fe intake manifold if you're doing that.

 

[Spook50]

Way over your head, lol. Jim is saying use a 3fe intake manifold if you're doing that.

Well don't I feel like a dope now.

 

[Seth S]

You are making me REALLY want to try my hand at machining an adapter to put the 3FE throttle body on the 2F intake and totally Frankenstein the bajeezus out of my engine.....

the 3fe throttle body won’t do anything. You would also need to modify the 2f intake for fuel injectors and a fuel rails and all the sensors. Instead of using the 3fe throttle body at that point you’d be better up using mega squirt and running a common gm or Ford throttle body. You would get better drive ability but at that point a Holley sniper would be cheaper and easier and probably faster and better results.

the 3fe benefits from a slightly improved head design but significantly better intake and exhaust manifolds. You would be better off adapting the 3fe intake and exhaust manifolds to the 2f head and then running something like Megasquirt. But again sniper is probably going to give you the easiest return for the dollar.

 

[Spike Strip]

@FJ40Jim

With the SS Chebby valves in the 61050 head on a late 2F block, rough guess what the C.R. is ?

Per FSMs: Stock 2F - 7.8:1 (emissions FSM says, 8.3:1 ?) ... Stock 3F/3FE - 8.1:1

 

[cmckown]

Hmm. My 3f is a naturally aspirated so Fuel injected is definitely not in my wheel house! I did see the fuel injection blown 2f thread.!!

 

[Seth S]

Hmm. My 3f is a naturally aspirated so Fuel injected is definitely not in my wheel house! I did see the fuel injection blown 2f thread.!!

Holley Sniper

 

[CruiserTrash]

Thread revival.

Going to attempt to install these manifolds (and corresponding carb) on my late 2F head:

Here’s the rub: from what I’ve been able to gather these manifold sets came on the 90-92(?) FJ75 Troopies. I have seen one in a truck with my own eyes. Whether or not that’s the only truck they came in or if they were there in pre-1990 trucks, I’m not 100% sure.

I also can’t figure out what head casting number is on the FJ75 motors. The 2F & 3F head differences have been documented very well in this thread, but I don’t know if the 1990+ Troopy heads are yet another variation.

So … if anybody has any intel on that I’d love to hear it. I haven’t been able to dig up anything definitive. I’m fairly certain the manifolds will bolt up, but the real question is which gasket to use. I’ll know more when I get the manifold set in my hands.

 

[cruiserloco]

Will a 3F-E head fit a 3F block?
That can probably make the fuel injection install much easier

 

[Spike Strip]

This is the Toyota gasket set for the 3F. It comes with a 61030 HG and all the proper gaskets for a 3F manifold Assy

Still readily available eBay and overseas

 

[CruiserTrash]

This is the Toyota gasket set for the 3F. It comes with a 61030 HG and all the proper gaskets for a 3F manifold Assy

Still readily available eBay and overseas

View attachment 3970821

Thanks Spike! I just rebuilt the motor including a new HG, so I really just need the manifold gasket. I didn't think to before, but I just checked Cruiser Outfitters and they have a Toyota 3F manifold gasket. It says it applies to "1987+ 6x/7x 3F". I think that bodes well. There's no upper limit to the date range, meaning it should apply to early 90s 3Fs. It also indicates 70 series and I know these manifolds came on FJ75 Troopies. That seems point towards the late 1980s 60 Series 3F head being the same as the early 1990s 70 Series 3F head.

Paging @cruiseroutfit - are late 1980s 60 Series 3F heads the same as early 1990s 70 Series 3F heads, and is the gasket you carry (p/n EGEX61070) applicable to both of those as indicated on the product page? To summarize what I've posted above, I'm putting what I think is an early 1990s 3F manifold set on a late 60 Series 2F head, or attempting to anyway. I know that end of it is my own risk. I just want to make sure I get the proper gasket for my manifolds and I'll start from there.

EGEX61070 (photo credit, CruiserTeq website):

Manifolds:

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Thanks Spike! I just rebuilt the motor including a new HG, so I really just need the manifold gasket. I didn't think to before, but I just checked Cruiser Outfitters and they have a Toyota 3F manifold gasket. It says it applies to "1987+ 6x/7x 3F". I think that bodes well. There's no upper limit to the date range, meaning it should apply to early 90s 3Fs. It also indicates 70 series and I know these manifolds came on FJ75 Troopies. That seems point towards the late 1980s 60 Series 3F head being the same as the early 1990s 70 Series 3F head.

Paging @cruiseroutfit - are late 1980s 60 Series 3F heads the same as early 1990s 70 Series 3F heads, and is the gasket you carry (p/n EGEX61070) applicable to both of those as indicated on the product page? To summarize what I've posted above, I'm putting what I think is an early 1990s 3F manifold set on a late 60 Series 2F head, or attempting to anyway. I know that end of it is my own risk. I just want to make sure I get the proper gasket for my manifolds and I'll start from there.

EGEX61070 (photo credit, CruiserTeq website):
View attachment 3970838

Manifolds:
View attachment 3970837

I'm on the road but ping the shop and they can verify. Should fit

 

[CruiserTrash]

I'm on the road but ping the shop and they can verify. Should fit

Thanks for the quick reply as always. Hope you're on a pleasure trip and not a work trip!

 

[Godwin]

Thread revival.

Going to attempt to install these manifolds (and corresponding carb) on my late 2F head:
View attachment 3970741

Here’s the rub: from what I’ve been able to gather these manifold sets came on the 90-92(?) FJ75 Troopies. I have seen one in a truck with my own eyes. Whether or not that’s the only truck they came in or if they were there in pre-1990 trucks, I’m not 100% sure.

I also can’t figure out what head casting number is on the FJ75 motors. The 2F & 3F head differences have been documented very well in this thread, but I don’t know if the 1990+ Troopy heads are yet another variation.

So … if anybody has any intel on that I’d love to hear it. I haven’t been able to dig up anything definitive. I’m fairly certain the manifolds will bolt up, but the real question is which gasket to use. I’ll know more when I get the manifold set in my hands.

I'm planning on installing the same setup within the next few months. I sourced a 3F exhaust downpipe from Saudi Arabia and can post up that part number if you want it.

 

[cruisermatt]

Thread revival.

Going to attempt to install these manifolds (and corresponding carb) on my late 2F head:

Here’s the rub: from what I’ve been able to gather these manifold sets came on the 90-92(?) FJ75 Troopies. I have seen one in a truck with my own eyes. Whether or not that’s the only truck they came in or if they were there in pre-1990 trucks, I’m not 100% sure.

So … if anybody has any intel on that I’d love to hear it. I haven’t been able to dig up anything definitive. I’m fairly certain the manifolds will bolt up, but the real question is which gasket to use. I’ll know more when I get the manifold set in my hands.

yes, all 3F (carb) engines (+1985 globally), so FJ62, FJ70/73/75, FJ80, had those manifolds.
It will bolt right to your cylinder head which is the same. You'll want to use the 3F gasket, 17172-61070. Available in the US actually for less cost then the 2F gasket.

 

[CruiserTrash]

I'm planning on installing the same setup within the next few months. I sourced a 3F exhaust downpipe from Saudi Arabia and can post up that part number if you want it.

I'd love that. My current plan is to make a thick laser-cut flange that will have the two side-by-side holes to match the manifold-side flange, and weld up cut pipe myself down to the regular triangular flange at the catalytic converter (or where my cat used to be anyway). But if somebody in the ME has the proper thing sitting on a shelf somewhere, I'd be tempted to buy it.

What are you putting these one? I think you have a 2FE right? Because these intake runners don't have the egg shape for the injectors. Or are you just using the exhaust portion?

 

[Spike Strip]

The rest of the world 3F head is a 11101-61050 (w/o emissions) or a -61070 w/emissions.

 

[CruiserTrash]

The rest of the world 3F head is a 11101-61050 (w/o emissions) or a -61070 w/emissions.

Awesome thanks Spike!

 

[Godwin]

No 2FE. I am running a 3FE exhaust on a 2F.

Mosley has put together a fresh 2F and I'm going to use the 3F manifolds on it, along with a new OEM carb. I'm out of town through the weekend, when I return I'll post up the part number for the exhaust down pipe.

I'd love that. My current plan is to make a thick laser-cut flange that will have the two side-by-side holes to match the manifold-side flange, and weld up cut pipe myself down to the regular triangular flange at the catalytic converter (or where my cat used to be anyway). But if somebody in the ME has the proper thing sitting on a shelf somewhere, I'd be tempted to buy it.

What are you putting these one? I think you have a 2FE right? Because these intake runners don't have the egg shape for the injectors. Or are you just using the exhaust portion?

 

[CruiserTrash]

No 2FE. I am running a 3FE exhaust on a 2F.

Mosley has put together a fresh 2F and I'm going to use the 3F manifolds on it, along with a new OEM carb. I'm out of town through the weekend, when I return I'll post up the part number for the exhaust down pipe.

Sounds like we’re doing similar things then. I just plopped my rebuilt fake Moseley 2F+ in my truck and I’m adding the 3F manifolds. We’ll have to compare notes when we’re done.