2025 (Mini) Land Cruiser "FJ" Speculation Thread
- Thread starter TexasFunRunner
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Cool RAV4.
That’ll be pretty cool if it’s BOF!
As rumored it appears to be another answer to a question nobody asked. However here they really could full J’s obsession and make it a BOF, removable Top / Doors, 4WD, etc. and be actually cool and interesting. But they should still stay away from whoring out the LC name.
The video would have been even better if Kirks’ mug took up ½ or ¾ of the frame instead of only 1/3 because that’s what’s most important.
The video would have been even better if Kirks’ mug took up ½ or ¾ of the frame instead of only 1/3 because that’s what’s most important.
Some new info (maybe??) cross posted from the 4Runner forum. The way I understand this - it's a sub-4Runner size SUV that is on the GAF platform and expected sales are about half the current 4Runner volume. Sounds like a fit for a new FJ Cruiser type model. Only other things to note start of production is January of 2025. And it's only the 2.4L engine option. Not much else I could tell from this - assuming it's authentic. But it would be a good sign that the expected short wheelbase version of something GAF is coming in a year or so. And it's designation is compact SUV standard price class.
One thing I don't understand is the "155L(2) (0-3.5 PC)" part. I think the 3 door Prado 150 is already named J155. So it would be weird to have a new model with the same J155 designation.
One thing I don't understand is the "155L(2) (0-3.5 PC)" part. I think the 3 door Prado 150 is already named J155. So it would be weird to have a new model with the same J155 designation.
Are these coming to the US ?
I don't know anything about it. Just that it was posted on another forum supposedly from an insider. I don't know if it's even authentic. If it is - I would guess that it would be coming to the USA if they expect 60k annual sales unless it means a new Fortuner. For an FJ Cruiser type model the rest of the world probably doesn't have enough sales volume combined in that segment to get to 60k units. Only the USA market really supports those volume projections. Unless it's a Fortuner or something like that where it's more mass-market compact SUV. In that case I'd guess not for USA.
Just rough numbers, but the entire world outside of the USA buys less than 400,000 Land Cruisers of all model types Prado, 300, 70 combined annually. And the USA sells 150k 4Runners alone. Close to 200k combined 4R and GX460. If you want to sell volume in the BOF SUV segment - North America is the market that matters.
This document is legitimate.
I really think it's unfortunate we are using the GAF acronym....in some ways it represents Toyota's attitude to the rest of the world. Toyota does Toyota...
LOL
LOL
I think you forgot the second part of your post where you tell us all about this cool new model.
Well if Toyota calls it a Land Cruiser...........
Show me the rear diff.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
In the USA, instead of being the flagship and marquee product of the brand, Land Cruiser is about to become a trim and then later an appearance package to existing models.
Enjoy the future with your 2030 Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid Land Cruiser. It will include a Heritage Land Cruiser badge in the rear quarter panel, LAND CRUISER spelled out on the rear hatch, round, retro-inspired headlights, and TOYOTA spelled out on the front grille.
Enjoy the future with your 2030 Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid Land Cruiser. It will include a Heritage Land Cruiser badge in the rear quarter panel, LAND CRUISER spelled out on the rear hatch, round, retro-inspired headlights, and TOYOTA spelled out on the front grille.
Actually, the Land Cruiser is going to be its own sub-brand within the Toyota line-up. Toyota has been moving in this direction for quite some time. The same with the Century becoming its own sub-brand above the Lexus brand.
Manufacturing rationalization and modularity leads to more varied options across a broad range of platforms each being their own sub-species under the larger Toyota Motor Corporation umbrella.
Makes sense and seems like a smart move for continued global sales dominance.
This is the logical conclusion of the "company model" Toyota instituted in 2016 moving away from the matrixed, "center based" model of organizational logic.
Manufacturing rationalization and modularity leads to more varied options across a broad range of platforms each being their own sub-species under the larger Toyota Motor Corporation umbrella.
Makes sense and seems like a smart move for continued global sales dominance.
This is the logical conclusion of the "company model" Toyota instituted in 2016 moving away from the matrixed, "center based" model of organizational logic.
- Thread starter
- #77
Makes total sense, especially with the common TNGA-F platform (and the whole point of a common platform).
Never the less, the complainers will be along any minute... /s
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Do you see it going the Jeep route with everything from sub-compact unibody awd cars being "Land Cruiser" models or just a premium brand for BOF wagons and off-road stuff?
The expanded brand model hasn't worked that I can think of. Didn't work very well for GM, Ford, CJRD. Scion didn't go so well for Toyota. Maybe it'll work this time. As long as they keep making the right product at the right prices it probably doesn't matter what they call them.
What I don't really understand is how Toyota looks at the same history as I see and decides it needs more variants of one market segment. Toyota's BOF SUV models converged into just 4 things: Midsize SUV (LC250,GX,LX,300,4Runner), HD work trucks LC70, Fortuner, and Sequoia. Almost dropped the Sequoia. Everything smaller grew generationally into the same mid-size range. The HD work truck is what it is. Probably not going to change either way. And Sequoia is a small niche product for one market. The Fortuner is probably the outlier here that sells well, is BOF SUV, and isn't the same size as all the midsize suv versions. The rest are all very closely grouped around the same size and function. If the market keeps coalescing to one size, how many more ways does it make sense to dress it up and brand it? Will a short wheelbase model matter or will it fade away like the FJ Cruiser because it's just a less good version of the wagon? What is going to make it work better this time? It seems like they could just take the LC250 or the LC300 and offer a full trim range of whichever one and that would cover the entire universe of midsize BOF suvs with a single model.
The expanded brand model hasn't worked that I can think of. Didn't work very well for GM, Ford, CJRD. Scion didn't go so well for Toyota. Maybe it'll work this time. As long as they keep making the right product at the right prices it probably doesn't matter what they call them.
What I don't really understand is how Toyota looks at the same history as I see and decides it needs more variants of one market segment. Toyota's BOF SUV models converged into just 4 things: Midsize SUV (LC250,GX,LX,300,4Runner), HD work trucks LC70, Fortuner, and Sequoia. Almost dropped the Sequoia. Everything smaller grew generationally into the same mid-size range. The HD work truck is what it is. Probably not going to change either way. And Sequoia is a small niche product for one market. The Fortuner is probably the outlier here that sells well, is BOF SUV, and isn't the same size as all the midsize suv versions. The rest are all very closely grouped around the same size and function. If the market keeps coalescing to one size, how many more ways does it make sense to dress it up and brand it? Will a short wheelbase model matter or will it fade away like the FJ Cruiser because it's just a less good version of the wagon? What is going to make it work better this time? It seems like they could just take the LC250 or the LC300 and offer a full trim range of whichever one and that would cover the entire universe of midsize BOF suvs with a single model.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Must you use the label of "complainers"? Can't we express an equally valid opinion about the change in direction of the model (and philosophy) without being denigrated?
I don't mind the trend toward better on-road performance and comfort, better environmental impact, etc. But the overall feeling of frustration that I have (and assume others feel), is that the design of the products being offered here are becoming less and less excessive for the general conditions our market throws at it.
I was attracted to Land Cruisers initially because they were SO MUCH MORE than anything else on the market. But that excessive design has come at a cost to Toyota's profits here in the US and elsewhere. Toyota said as much when they discontinued the 70 series in Japan in 2004: "Overseas, however, the car's drivability and reliability in harsh usage environments remained highly regarded and, as such, the 70 Series continued to be produced as an overseas-only model." The Prado was introduced in 1984 as a way to meet the needs of ever increasing leisure use with "a heightened focus on comfort and style, in addition to mobility."
@TexasFunRunner and others,
I understand the motives (or at least try) to understand the reasons behind Toyota's lineup changes over the year, but to call those that are in this community for more than just strict Toyota or Land Cruiser worship "complainers" for not liking what Toyota is offering, is, in my opinion, non-inclusive and small-minded.
While confirmed by @OGBeno as likely just a legend, the Land Cruiser I want to spend my hard-earned money on is the one with the 25-year design life in the harshest environments. That's not because I will use such a vehicle in those environments constantly for 25 years, but rather because I want to have the best possible vehicle under me whenever I use it for whatever I use it for.
Can the new LC 250 Prado or GX550 still be the possible vehicle available while still falling short of that legendary expectation? Yes. And it is also ok for any of us to be a little disappointed when we buy one anyway.
Here are some official statements from Toyota about the Land Cruiser over the years. The best is from 300 Series CE Yokoo at the bottom.
August 29, 1980:
The 4WD vehicle market first began growing in response to great demand from government organizations and corporations, who valued their outstanding utility and durability. In recent years, however, a strong leisure-vehicle demand has also emerged as consumers have found 4WD vehicles attractive for their ruggedness and utility in recreational use. Hardtop 4WD vehicles are especially popular for their all-weather versatility, and many people now purchase them as replacements for passenger cars.
October 8, 1981:
The Toyota Land Cruiser has been a solid seller ever since its introduction in 1951. Boasting superb power and a tough and reliable chassis, this 4WD vehicle was an instant hit in Japan and moved on to garner enthusiastic praise overseas as well.
November 2, 1984 (Prado):
Since its appearance in 1953, the Land Cruiser has established a reputation for excellent maneuverability and durability owing to its outstanding power performance and solid turning performance, and it enjoys a fine reputation both domestically and abroad as a leader in the 4WD vehicle market.
In recent years, there has been a strong trend toward expansion and diversification in the 4WD market, because leisure-oriented customers who demand more maneuverability and fashionability in their automobiles have been switching to 4WD vehicles.
May 8, 1996 (Prado):
From the sweltering heat of infinite deserts and the depths of majestic rainforests to the traffic chaos of today's mega-cities, one four-wheel drive vehicle is capable and reliable enough to tackle the worst road nightmares... the Toyota Landcruiser.
Today, the launch of the all-new 1996 Landcruiser Prado takes the Landcruiser's legend one step further, and reaffirms its place as the world's trendsetter in urban off-road vehicles.
As a hard-core off-road 4WD vehicle, the new Landcruiser Prado is available with a field monitor incorporating altimeter, thermometer and tilt gauge.
January 19, 1998:
Since the Land Cruiser made its debut in 1951, its performance over rough roads and its overall mobility, durability, and reliability have won it a reputation as the 4WD sport utility vehicle (SUV) of choice for a wide range of tasks. In countries around the world, it is driven by UN organizations and is used as a rescue and aid vehicle, as a satellite broadcast relay car, and for various patrol duties.
In pursuit of the dual crowns of "King of 4WDs" and the "Top of SUVs," the Land Cruiser 100 represents a major evolution of the traditional Land Cruiser performance qualities to the highest possible level, with further emphasis on safety and environmental considerations than ever before.
September 18, 2007:
The new Land Cruiser, designed under the theme "The King of Four-Wheel Drives", features a new platform and suspension, 4.7-liter [sic] V8 engine with VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing-intelligent) and new technologies that enhance all-around driving performance. As a result, the Land Cruiser's traditional durability, reliability, off-road performance and other basic functions have been raised to a new level.
September 14, 2009 (Prado):
he new Land Cruiser Prado, a mid-size, authentic four-wheel drive vehicle, continues the tradition of the Land Cruiser brand that is esteemed in more than 170 countries and regions around the world. The fourth generation maintains the outstanding drivability, reliability and basic functionality of the earlier generations―even under the harshest driving conditions―while improving on the on-road and off-road performance that is the Prado's claim to fame.
August 2, 2021:
All over the world, the Land Cruiser has supported lives, livelihoods, and more fulfilling lifestyles, and promised to take people anywhere and everywhere, and come back alive and safe. Now, the Land Cruiser's essence of "reliability, durability, and off-road performance" has further evolved, based on the actual usage situations of its global customers
The new Land Cruiser 300 Series is a complete redesign of the outgoing 200 Series, which launched in 2007. Its development objectives are outlined below, including: Inheriting and evolving the Land Cruiser's essence of "reliability, durability, and off-road performance"
Takami Yokoo (Chief Engineer for the 300 Series) [bold text is my emphasis]:
In developing a new model, we must meet various targets, and of course consider cost in all areas. Whenever we have to weigh up trade-offs, such as eliminating one thing to go over cost on another, for the Land Cruiser the non-negotiable aspects that must be maintained are very clear.
If you only drive the car on well-paved roads in developed countries, the quality will be excessive in some areas. It’s not difficult to set numerical targets for reliability. But if from the outset you need to match or surpass the previous model, it instantly raises the difficulty.
For example, if the 300 Series struggles with environments that didn’t pose trouble for the existing 200, this is not only a drop in performance but potentially life-threatening for the customer. That’s why we have a lot to do, or rather, a lot to break. Our mission with the Land Cruiser is to continue evolving by overcoming each one of these challenges.
Our job and mission is to maintain the trust that we have cultivated in the market, or in other words, to keep our promises to customers.
And for @Jetboy (from CE Yokoo):
Above all, the key is designing a Land Cruiser that can sustain the basic functions – driving, turning, stopping – for as long as possible. In an extreme case, you could manage to come back alive even without bumpers, body panels, or a roof.
That’s why, even though monocoque structures that integrate chassis and body are now common in SUVs, for the new 300 Series we stuck to the body-on-frame arrangement, where the cabin is installed on a ladder frame using rubber mounts, which allows us to create a stronger chassis.
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- Thread starter
- #80
This one interesting thing about the size of the mini Land Cruiser FJ is the parallel it may achieve with the cult following of Mitsubishi Pajero and Suzuki Samurai / Jimny models.
