For a fully-loaded TRDOR with the hybrid engine, I don't think high $40k-range if not $50k is out of the question. It's a huge price jump but they'll probably keep the base, TRDOR truck with the non-hybrid at around $39k.
2024 GX wait list (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tex68w
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
With dealership markups for at least the next year or so you will easily pass 50k with most of the popular trims guaranteed.
r2m
Richard
Even though it comes with an air compressor, I'd just assume put my own in since I'm sure the factory one isn't 100% duty cycle and slow.
- Thread starter
- #65
Loaded out (short of all of the optional ARB kit) the current 2023 TRD Pro is well into the $50's. Add in a new motor with a lot more power, a much better interior with fancy boy seats, disc brakes, a better frame and payload and all of the tech improvements and I promise you the 2024 TRD Pro will push into the $60's, you may not like it but it will be the case. The current GX starts out in the high $50's, basically $60K, the Premium mid-grade is in the mid $60's and the Luxury model is well into the $70's. I assure you the new GX will be a $65-85K SUV, it's insane but it's sadly the market that consumers agree to play in.
I agree with this, theres just no way price doesn’t creep up. The old GX was a tremendous value, doubly so considering what they want for a 4R.
If you look at the LX pricing, it went up 10%, but if you really look, like at feature parity, it went up by 20%.
The GX is a great family suv and sells like hot cakes, but so does the runner. I can see a lot of potential for price plasticity in there between the two.
I see the GX at $75k kitted out.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
I agree with a lot of the points mentioned, I didn't see anyone mention inflation and that companies make contracts with part suppliers sometimes years in advance, locking in prices. So I could see a healthy markup just for that.
And while I hate to see my favorite brand get more expensive and it's why I stepped away from the brand for 10 years because I frankly couldn't afford the Toyota tax, it sounds like they are just doing what Toyota does best and making a super reliable product, that much more reliable, once all the kinks are worked out, which will only take a few model years.
Most of the ****ery has been worked out of the twin scroll Turbo fours, and I still miss the peak torque at 1750 rpm in the one I had for 5 years.
I am also very biased towards Toyota 4 bangers as I drove 5 lug pickups and tacos for 17 years.
And while I hate to see my favorite brand get more expensive and it's why I stepped away from the brand for 10 years because I frankly couldn't afford the Toyota tax, it sounds like they are just doing what Toyota does best and making a super reliable product, that much more reliable, once all the kinks are worked out, which will only take a few model years.
Most of the ****ery has been worked out of the twin scroll Turbo fours, and I still miss the peak torque at 1750 rpm in the one I had for 5 years.
I am also very biased towards Toyota 4 bangers as I drove 5 lug pickups and tacos for 17 years.
If the 2024 GX/ LC is built to compete with the bronco/ Wrangler it will be a failure.... It should be a step above. If your looking for budget, wait for the 4R.
No way, with how scared and conservative they are of touching these best sellers, no way. The GX will remain, as will the 4R.
The "LC" product will be the one that competes in that space, and is most likely an FJ relaunch type of thing.
They wont risk messing with the 4R / GX formula, those are some of the best selling SUVs in USA, if not the best.
Longest of long shots, but if the 6th gen T4R shares its powertrain with the 4th gen Taco, then I can continue daydreaming of a new manual transmission 4Runner
The pricing is going to be really interesting. The Ranger Raptor is $57k. It's 405hp TTv6 vs 275 in the Taco, arguably a level above the TRD Pro in terms of suspension with the live valve fox setup, has front locker, and a crawl ratio much deeper than the Tacoma - around 75:1 vs Taco at probably 40:1. I think the Ranger Raptor may set a bit of a price cap on the TRD Pro. The Bronco Wildtrack is probably the functional equivalent in that model to the TRD Pro tacoma and it's $58k. I'd have a hard time seeing the TRD Pro taco going for a lot more. Maybe a little. But it'll be a very hard sell approaching $65 or 70k unless Ford and GM bump prices a bunch on their competing models.
- Thread starter
- #72
Well 326 HP in the TRD Pro, Trail Hunter, Limited, TRD OR and TRD Sport. The Ranger Raptor is definitely better on paper but if they are anything like the regular Raptor they will be unobtanium and marked up $20K. I like the idea of a stripped down TRD OR for a daily with a level and some decent tires and front bumper. I still say the new TRD Pro goes into the $60's.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
Honestly, if it's tuned for 87 just tune it for 93. If there is headroom in the turbo you could dial in a lot of extra power with a canned tune let alone if you got it in on a dyno.
Also I doubt the new yota forced induction motors are open deck like Ford is notorious for doing. Would like to have that confirmed.
Also I doubt the new yota forced induction motors are open deck like Ford is notorious for doing. Would like to have that confirmed.
Yeah, but it's 326hp for about 40 seconds. It'll be great 0-60. On a mountain pass or towing a trailer - it's only 275 HP. Lower rpm power is really close to the 4.6v8 up to about 2500 rpms and then the V8 starts to pull away in power. It's a nice upgrade over the 3.5 no doubt. If they had a 10-20kw battery it would be a real V8 replacement. That's where a PHEV will be a game changer.
The raptor should run circles around it on paper, even the hybrid. Except it's a Ford. Even the old Tacoma beat the f150 raptor head to head in actual dessert racing. Even the old tundra and 4runner have better race results, albeit limited samples.
But also how often do you see a raptor on dirt? Or a TRD pro? Pretty close to zero is my experience. Actual vehicles in the field I see are TRD off-road and SR5 mostly. Sometimes TRD pro 4runner. I've never seen a TRD pro Tacoma off-road that I can remember.
I don't think the turbo has much room to go on peak power. It's a long stroke narrow bore engine. It's never going to rev very high or make a ton of power. And the turbos are pretty likely to run out of breath as well (based on recent similar Toyota engines). There's gains in the mid range to be found. But I'd be surprised to see a lot more at peak. Just not the right engine design. And the turbo is bespoke by Toyota so it's not easy to slap on a bigger one.
I believe it is open deck like the v35a but I haven't seen one apart.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
Thanks for that info!
Thats a bummer. The only turbo engine I am super familiar with is the Hyundai Gamma and it can gain almost 100 hp at the wheels before needing a bigger turbo, and it's a semi-closed deck with a forged bottom end after 2015.
If it's an open deck, I may pass all together.
Yeah those are all good points. When I take the benefits of the TT and hybrids into account, its for livability and initial torque.
Same thing with the LX 600, the engine is a downgrade. But around town it will be a lot better.
Personally would take hybrid versions of all these, wether 4 or 6 cylinder, and in no way would I think they will outclass the V8 or V6 they replaced.
Its just a different animal, one that you are forced to induct into your life.
They way I look at it, in frequent city traffic, parking lots etc, I am saving a ton of fuel in both initial low speed acceleration / idle consumption.
Otherwise I have to give drivability to the NA engines hands down in almost every other scenario outside of elevation.
Between the charged vs charged hybrids though, I'm not sure how much the motor design will affect the feel, but I have heard numerous times now from the Tundra review ppl that they prefer the non hybrid. Could be tuning needing adjustments are needed with Toyotas sandwich motor / transmission design.
I bet when done right, that the above would not be the case. In theory the hybrid should fill all the gaps nicely.
But you are right about the hybrid power for example in the Tundra is contributing 48hp? For electric motor that is not much.
Seems easier to forgo these options for the "simplicity" of the plain charged variant.
We have yet to see how long all these engines last. Its only been out 5 years in the case of the 300.
The taco plant is even newer.
The non-hybrid tundra is a big improvement in highway driving over the v8. The truck is a lot quieter, but also that engine has about twice as much power at 2k rpms as the 5.7. So it never feels stressed in normal highway cruising and basically never needs to downshift. It's very smooth as well at those lower rpms ranges. I haven't driven the hybrid, but at least in the Tundra even if it were free - I'd rather not have it. It takes up a bunch of storage space, adds 600lbs, and has no meaningful benefit for towing or hauling stuff because of the battery size. And no inverter option. I just don't see the point if I'm not worried about 0-60 times. I didn't like the fit/finish of the new truck and I don't like compromises for styling - namely the smaller tundra cab, smaller bed, high belt line with poor visibility, etc. But if I could get the TTv6 and 10 speed in a prior gen tundra, I'd swap without hesitation.
In the turbo 4 - the engine isn't powerful enough and that's where the hybrid would really help if it had enough battery capacity to do much. The hybrid and non-hybrid versions are going to be a lot nicer than the 3.5v6 in the current tacoma that jumps to 4k rpms at even the sight of an incline in the distance. It's really a terrible engine/trans combo when combined with 3.73 diffs and the tune Toyota uses. Same engine in the Lexus RX is fantastic. It's the way Toyota set it up in the Taco in part that makes it a poor combo. But the T24A makes around 25% more power at 2k rpms than the v6 and a bit more than the 4.6v8. So for highway cruising unloaded - it should be a lot better at maintaining speed without constant shifting and keeping the rpms in a reasonable range. It's just a bit too small though once you tow anything. At that point it'll be just like the v6 and you'll live at 4500 rpms because it just doesn't have enough power. Toyota really needs something closer to GMs 2.7 4 or Ford's smaller EB v6 models. It's not so much about peak power, but about comfort of not redlining up every mountain pass. And a constant 200hp demand up a long pass is a lot more comfortable in v8 that only needs to run at 3k rpms or a turbo 6 that only needs 2k than a turbo 4 that is at 4500.
As far as increased power vs the Genesis version, both the V35A and T24A are long stroke narrow bore. So they have more leverage on the crank shaft because the crank shaft pins are further spaced from the rotational center creating a longer lever arm. That results in better lower rpm power at the cost of everything traveling further meaning less potential for higher rpm operation. It's really the opposite of a race car engine. It's as close to a diesel output as you can get in a gas engine. And it's by design. It's a truck engine. The engine its self is designed just like a diesel as well, in fact it could probably be a diesel built on the same bottom end and may actually be at some point. BMW does that with its B58 that Toyota helped design. The bottom end of both turbo engines are a split block with a crank shaft that is sandwiched between the two halfs of the engine. It's significantly stronger than a traditional bottom end with main bearing caps that bolt in. And it's the same design in almost all modern diesels.
It has a lot of innovative design features. Like water cooled exhaust internally pre-turbo. I think that alone will be the biggest life extender of the turbo. Keeping EGTs significantly lower and the turbo cool means long life.
Interestingly the Supra using Toyota's tune and the B58 is faster than the BMW M2 that uses a supposedly higher output turbo 6 that makes a lot more high rpm power, but lacks the lower end power of the B58.
Overall I think it's a great engine. It's perfect for the base or core engine in a Tacoma. I just really wanted a higher output engine option like the GX will have with the TTv6 instead of the T4.
Here's a grainy picture, but it's an open deck.
In the turbo 4 - the engine isn't powerful enough and that's where the hybrid would really help if it had enough battery capacity to do much. The hybrid and non-hybrid versions are going to be a lot nicer than the 3.5v6 in the current tacoma that jumps to 4k rpms at even the sight of an incline in the distance. It's really a terrible engine/trans combo when combined with 3.73 diffs and the tune Toyota uses. Same engine in the Lexus RX is fantastic. It's the way Toyota set it up in the Taco in part that makes it a poor combo. But the T24A makes around 25% more power at 2k rpms than the v6 and a bit more than the 4.6v8. So for highway cruising unloaded - it should be a lot better at maintaining speed without constant shifting and keeping the rpms in a reasonable range. It's just a bit too small though once you tow anything. At that point it'll be just like the v6 and you'll live at 4500 rpms because it just doesn't have enough power. Toyota really needs something closer to GMs 2.7 4 or Ford's smaller EB v6 models. It's not so much about peak power, but about comfort of not redlining up every mountain pass. And a constant 200hp demand up a long pass is a lot more comfortable in v8 that only needs to run at 3k rpms or a turbo 6 that only needs 2k than a turbo 4 that is at 4500.
As far as increased power vs the Genesis version, both the V35A and T24A are long stroke narrow bore. So they have more leverage on the crank shaft because the crank shaft pins are further spaced from the rotational center creating a longer lever arm. That results in better lower rpm power at the cost of everything traveling further meaning less potential for higher rpm operation. It's really the opposite of a race car engine. It's as close to a diesel output as you can get in a gas engine. And it's by design. It's a truck engine. The engine its self is designed just like a diesel as well, in fact it could probably be a diesel built on the same bottom end and may actually be at some point. BMW does that with its B58 that Toyota helped design. The bottom end of both turbo engines are a split block with a crank shaft that is sandwiched between the two halfs of the engine. It's significantly stronger than a traditional bottom end with main bearing caps that bolt in. And it's the same design in almost all modern diesels.
It has a lot of innovative design features. Like water cooled exhaust internally pre-turbo. I think that alone will be the biggest life extender of the turbo. Keeping EGTs significantly lower and the turbo cool means long life.
Interestingly the Supra using Toyota's tune and the B58 is faster than the BMW M2 that uses a supposedly higher output turbo 6 that makes a lot more high rpm power, but lacks the lower end power of the B58.
Overall I think it's a great engine. It's perfect for the base or core engine in a Tacoma. I just really wanted a higher output engine option like the GX will have with the TTv6 instead of the T4.
Here's a grainy picture, but it's an open deck.
Last edited:
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
All this talk just reinforces my opinion that PHEV is a better way forward than a TT V6. That TT V6 is garbage to drive. I absolutely hated it in the Tundra Platinum loaner I had for a while. If that's Toyotas direction I'm not really interested in any new models. I guess I'll keep my GX unless the Lexus TX has a PHEV option. If they would of offered the new GX with a V6 and a PHEV system similar the RAV4 Prime I had then that would be perfect for us and I'd have a deposit down for one.
