2020 VW Tiguan - FJ60. Technology has come a long way

[Seth S]

My wife and I bought a 2020 leftover VW Tiguan in December ( my first new car ever and an experience that was about as crappy as I was expecting). In any event I was reading over the specs and the car weighs about 3850 lbs, has a 2.0 liter direction injection 4 cylinder turbo charged intercooled engine and an 8 speed transmission with 7th and 8th gears being pretty decent overdrives. The car isn't a rocket by any means but its a lot faster than my 60. Of course the Tiguan is 26 years newer, a unibody design, filled with wires and computers, and all sorts of other stuff. But the reason I thought I'd post is because my stock 60 comes in around 4250 lbs and I was just thinking about the advances in car design that allows a fairly large vehicle to have such a small engine which out performs and has better economy than an 80's land cruiser (utility vehicle of vintage etc). Also I found the Tiguan has a final drive of 3.33:1....8th gear in the tiguan is .67:1 iirc. We have 215/65/R17 tires on there as well.

So this isn't really meant to be a apples to apples comparison. I just thought it was impressive to see how a modern vehicle that's in the weight ball park of the FJ60 could do well with a modern small engine (which makes 184hp @4400 rpm, 221 lb-ft torque @1600 rpm)

 

[g-man]

I'm trying to find in the owners manual and fsm's but can't find the stock weight. But I think it's closer to 6200 lbs. Mine weighted around 6400 on the scales at the local land fill.

 

[g-man]

GVWR...5360 lbs on the door tag. by definition GVWR includes passengers and cargo and accessories of which toyota says we can have max of 950 lb for that so looks like your weight is about right.

where did you get your # of 4250?

 

[g-man]

the owners manual says in the specs at the back.....950 lbs of vehicle capacity weight (passengers and cargo) )for gas powered wagons.

 

[cps432]

Get your digital calipers out and tell us what the difference in body panel thickness is. Count the plastic panels inside and out. Is the gas tank plastic? Is the engine block aluminum? These are the biggest changes in modern cars in my opinion, other than computers and electronic gadgets galore, not much has actually changed in the technology cars use to go from point a to point b. Things are just more efficient in several areas and that all adds up in the end product. Computers running fuel mix is a pretty big advancement... wondering why they cost so mich to instal in a car, however, when my iPhone can do 1000 times what an EFI system can do for a few hundred bucks.

 

[diesellibrarian]

Yeah I recently did a dump run and was surprised to see that my 62 (empty, by that time) was about 5400lbs. Was even more surprised to see that the BMW X5 in front of me was 200lbs heavier! Must be all them newfangled electronicky bits.

 

[Seth S]

The gvwr on the Tiguan is 5200 lbs. towing is rated to 1500 lbs limitations of unibody vs a frame and of course a small engine.

curb weight of a stock empty 60 is around 4200 lbs. cant comment if you have heavily modified yours.

 

[Seth S]

 

[White Stripe]

The Tiguan will get you about 60 or 70k miles with great reliability. After that they start having issues.

 

[Seth S]

The Tiguan will get you about 60 or 70k miles with great reliability. After that they start having issues.

Could be. Time will tell. But I’ve been maintaining my parents vw’s for the last 10 years or so and really not too bad to work on. And really haven’t need too much other than an accessory now and then or a sensor here and there. Not as good as my Saab which just rolled past 290k miles....but the Saab was a completely different level of car

the reality of the situation was we needed a new car and with our budget $24k was about it...lots of crappy cars available for the price range. . The biggest detractor for me is the auto trans. But wife can’t drive a stick and she is still learning to drive in the USA which is a lot different. So we’ll see how it goes.

but I’m not trying to create a thread about how amazing a Tiguan is or isn’t . Mostly was just impressed by how much technology has improved to allow a pretty heavy car to run around with such a small engine and do quite
well.

 

[cruisermatt]

so how are you comparing it to a 60? are they both the same color?

 

[Seth S]

so how are you comparing it to a 60? are they both the same color?

I’m just going by weight. Comment really is that it’s impressive how much newer technology can move similar mass down the road but with half the engine and 1.5 to 2x the fuel economy.

 

[300blk]

The only new vehicle currently on sale that is similar to the 60 series is the fifth generation 4Runner.

 

[cruisermatt]

I’m just going by weight. Comment really is that it’s impressive how much newer technology can move similar mass down the road but with half the engine and 1.5 to 2x the fuel economy.

yeah, crazy what a difference 50 years of advancement makes, lol

 

[Seth S]

The only new vehicle currently on sale that is similar to the 60 series is the fifth generation 4Runner.

Great

 

[White Stripe]

Could be. Time will tell. But I’ve been maintaining my parents vw’s for the last 10 years or so and really not too bad to work on. And really haven’t need too much other than an accessory now and then or a sensor here and there. Not as good as my Saab which just rolled past 290k miles....but the Saab was a completely different level of car

the reality of the situation was we needed a new car and with our budget $24k was about it...lots of crappy cars available for the price range. . The biggest detractor for me is the auto trans. But wife can’t drive a stick and she is still learning to drive in the USA which is a lot different. So we’ll see how it goes.

but I’m not trying to create a thread about how amazing a Tiguan is or isn’t . Mostly was just impressed by how much technology has improved to allow a pretty heavy car to run around with such a small engine and do quite
well.

The direct injection allows for higher compression. Which helps with more power. However with a turbo it's going to have to run richer at times than a naturally aspirated engine. If the engine has no form of Port injection whatsoever, the likelihood of lots of carbon build up in the engine is significant. On VW's I usually see oil leaks start around 70k as well as internal turbo oil leaks. Will still run though. Vw brakes are usually always very nice. The bodies/chassis don't hold up that well to salt. A lot of manufacturers are pushing turbo engines. Forced induction adds great power(some of the power curves of these motors have a lot of lag), at the cost of significant complexity and expense to a engine. It also increases the likelihood of catastrophic failure since a forced induction engine is more fragile.

 

[Seth S]

The direct injection allows for higher compression. Which helps with more power. However with a turbo it's going to have to run richer at times than a naturally aspirated engine. If the engine has no form of Port injection whatsoever, the likelihood of lots of carbon build up in the engine is significant. On VW's I usually see oil leaks start around 70k as well as internal turbo oil leaks. Will still run though. Vw brakes are usually always very nice. The bodies/chassis don't hold up that well to salt. A lot of manufacturers are pushing turbo engines. Forced induction adds great power(some of the power curves of these motors have a lot of lag), at the cost of significant complexity and expense to a engine. It also increases the likelihood of catastrophic failure since a forced induction engine is more fragile.

Not sure I’d agree that forced induction engines are more fragile. My current daily is forced induction with 290k miles and no oil usage. my previous I retired at 270k miles because the body was getting rusty after 20 Vermont winters. I am sure there are plenty of forced induction engines with problems but I think that’s less of a forced induction problem and more of a quality of design, manufacture, and quality with given mfg’s.

turbos do require more fuel but with the advantage of more torque allowing for lower rpms in each gear and resulting in less fuel usage.

may dads tdi has some rust issues now but it’s 18 years old. I think he’s at about 150k now still on original turbo. I’ve had to clean his EGR and intake once and the dealer did that once. A common tdi issue especially with drivers who make lots of short trips. I also replaced his first alternator this summer.

I’m sure the Tiguan will be a learning experience but I’ve worked on plenty of VW and Audi to not have any fears. Biggest concern I have with direct injection is probably injector clogging. Like anything I own I’m sure I’ll be reading up in and researching as we put on miles.

 

[White Stripe]

Not sure I’d agree that forced induction engines are more fragile. My current daily is forced induction with 290k miles and no oil usage. my previous I retired at 270k miles because the body was getting rusty after 20 Vermont winters. I am sure there are plenty of forced induction engines with problems but I think that’s less of a forced induction problem and more of a quality of design, manufacture, and quality with given mfg’s.

turbos do require more fuel but with the advantage of more torque allowing for lower rpms in each gear and resulting in less fuel usage.

may dads tdi has some rust issues now but it’s 18 years old. I think he’s at about 150k now still on original turbo. I’ve had to clean his EGR and intake once and the dealer did that once. A common tdi issue especially with drivers who make lots of short trips. I also replaced his first alternator this summer.

I’m sure the Tiguan will be a learning experience but I’ve worked on plenty of VW and Audi to not have any fears. Biggest concern I have with direct injection is probably injector clogging. Like anything I own I’m sure I’ll be reading up in and researching as we put on miles.

Well if you have a injector clog, or bad map sensor on a forced induction engine, the lean compression will melt a piston in a few miles. If you have a injector go bad on a naturally aspirated engine, it can run for quite a while that way. That's why a lot of people that add a supercharger or turbo add afr sensors, so you can monitor that and catch a issue early. The VW probably has a aggressive limp home mode if something like that happens.

 

[Seth S]

Well if you have a injector clog, or bad map sensor on a forced induction engine, the lean compression will melt a piston in a few miles. If you have a injector go bad on a naturally aspirated engine, it can run for quite a while that way. That's why a lot of people that add a supercharger or turbo add afr sensors, so you can monitor that and catch a issue early. The VW probably has a aggressive limp home mode if something like that happens.

I agree with that. And of course adding forced induction to an engine not originally supplied with it is a real opportunity for failure if not done wisely.
I see from the VW forums some people are doing injector cleaner in the tank of gas before every oil change. Like most mechanical things I think longevity comes down to proper driving. And regular maintenance.

 

[onemanarmy]

Get your digital calipers out and tell us what the difference in body panel thickness is. Count the plastic panels inside and out. Is the gas tank plastic? Is the engine block aluminum? These are the biggest changes in modern cars in my opinion, other than computers and electronic gadgets galore, not much has actually changed in the technology cars use to go from point a to point b. Things are just more efficient in several areas and that all adds up in the end product. Computers running fuel mix is a pretty big advancement... wondering why they cost so mich to instal in a car, however, when my iPhone can do 1000 times what an EFI system can do for a few hundred bucks.

Automakers can tack on unreliable gadgets and charge above market value for tech because millions of people buy them up. The car makers aren't dumb, in a business sense (not so much in design, reliability, and legacy). That's why you get $60K 4runners and Wranglers.

Nothing will change until we come to our senses and quit spending like drunken sailors on quickly depreciating items.