200 Series Landcruiser vs LX 570 (2 Viewers)

[HighRanch]

Nothing changed capability-wise from 2010 to 2011. Toyota adopted the SAE J2807 standard which is more conservative than how they were rating things previously. J2807 hits higher trim vehicles disproportionately, as explained in that thread. Check out posts #2 and #5 in that thread you linked.

Yes it does say that, but doesn't make sense the LX would change according to the SAE J2807 standard and the LC200 would not.
I am not speaking for Toyota/Lexus, but just going off what I see and this thread is not referencing an official Toyota/Lexus statement and appears to
just be speculation to me....unless you know something about TeCKis300 and he is possibly speaking for Toyota.

 

[Madtiger]

Yes it does say that, but doesn't make sense the LX would change according to the SAE J2807 standard and the LC200 would not.
I am not speaking for Toyota/Lexus, but just going off what I see and this thread is not referencing an official Toyota/Lexus statement and appears to
just be speculation to me....unless you know something about TeCKis300 and he is possibly speaking for Toyota.

"TeCKis300 would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy..."

TeCKis300 has made some outrageous bias claims in past...you just learn to laugh at it.

 

[TeCKis300]

Yes it does say that, but doesn't make sense the LX would change according to the SAE J2807 standard and the LC200 would not.
I am not speaking for Toyota/Lexus, but just going off what I see and this thread is not referencing an official Toyota/Lexus statement and appears to
just be speculation to me....unless you know something about TeCKis300 and he is possibly speaking for Toyota.

I'll be the first to admit I have no special access to more information than yourself and I am not a Toyota insider.

What I can offer is an interpretation I have gleaned from studying openly available information. Take it with a grain a salt as a plausible answer. I encourage you to do your own due diligence, and I'm always open to learn more. I had the same question. And I have skin in the game to understand as my heaviest weigh in with my rig showed a combined 15,620lbs.

@LX Cruiser pointed you to my answer quoted here below. The gist is that prior to SAE J2807 it was open to manufacturer interpretation and fudging. They often took the lightest internal variant/trim as the test mule even if it was not truly representative in weight to the consumer offered trim. High weight configurations got disproportionately affected. The LC being a "lightweight" trim didn't get impacted. The LX as a "heavyweight" trim got much more affected. Similar to the Tundra table below where the 4WD CrewMax lost 1,100 paper capacity with the switch to SAEJ2807.

As someone that works in product development, it might be a surprise that engineering math isn't often perfect and there are more internal parameters in trade than we may know. Sometimes requirements pit test results against legislative constraints that may not even truly matter in the real world.

What I'm getting at is that stated capacities are not hard thresholds such that things suddenly fall apart right after that line. Or that someone won't have problems well short of that number. Leave it to the general public to do things the designers never expected, including myself.

What I can tell you is that the LX will handle heavy loads with aplomb *when setup right and that AHC suspension is up to task. And do so with 35" tires and lift.

What I can also say is that the LC may also do so but will be more challenged at these weights, being softly sprung with light damping, and no ability to compensate.

Negative. AHC is well up to the task and has proven to be an asset for those of us that tow really heavy. Where it does not help is that the system adds weight to the overall vehicle. That added weight, along with the many more upgrades as fitted to the LX (vs LC), is the core reason why the LX gets downgraded significantly. Not that the LC is a base model in any sense, but the LX has upwards of 300-400lbs more worth of accouterments, which subtracts from the chassis rated load capacities.

As I said earlier, SAE J2807 testing requires a representatively configured weight vehicle for the test. Previously, manufacturers used internal methodologies. Many of which based numbers on stripper chassis, and did not honor the highly optioned vehicles true weight.

An example that may help understanding is the Tundra. Within the 5.7L motor range, towing capacity spans 10,200 to 8800 lbs. A closer example might be comparing the same bodystyle, but SR5 to a well optioned 1794 Edition:
SR5 4x4 CrewMax 5.7L - tow capacity 9800lbs
1794 Edition 4x4 Crewmax 5.7 - tow capacity 8800lbs

SAE J2807 more greatly impacts vehicle configurations with higher weights:
View attachment 2012367

TL;DR more highly optioned vehicles based on the same chassis will have less towing capacity.

 

[LX Cruiser]

Yes it does say that, but doesn't make sense the LX would change according to the SAE J2807 standard and the LC200 would not.
I am not speaking for Toyota/Lexus, but just going off what I see and this thread is not referencing an official Toyota/Lexus statement and appears to
just be speculation to me....unless you know something about TeCKis300 and he is possibly speaking for Toyota.

It does make sense if you understand that the new standard – SAE J2807 – that was adopted in 2011 takes substantially more capacity away for more well-appointed trim levels. The LX is the luxury trim level of the 200 series.

It's the same story for the Tundra and Sequoia: higher trim levels (platinum, limited, etc) have a substantially lower tow rating even if their extra appointments (like leather, seat heaters, and a sunroof) only add up to 200-300 pounds. Same frame, drivetrain, axles, and suspension as the lower trim Tundras and Sequoias (Platinum Sequoia's air suspension notwithstanding).

By the very nature of how the towing standard changed while the platforms did not at all, we can plainly see there are margins built in to the system. The LX's self leveling AHC system is fantastic for towing, even if it took a hit to its tow rating under the new standard simply because of the luxury appointments while the LC 200 did not.

 

[Madtiger]

It does make sense if you understand that the new standard – SAE J2807 – that was adopted in 2011 takes substantially more capacity away for more well-appointed trim levels. The LX is the luxury trim level of the 200 series.

It's the same story for the Tundra and Sequoia: higher trim levels (platinum, limited, etc) have a substantially lower tow rating even if their extra appointments (like leather, seat heaters, and a sunroof) only add up to 200-300 pounds. Same frame, drivetrain, axles, and suspension as the lower trim Tundras and Sequoias (Platinum Sequoia's air suspension notwithstanding).

By the very nature of how the towing standard changed while the platforms did not at all, we can plainly see there are margins built in to the system. The LX's self leveling AHC system is fantastic for towing, even if it took a hit to its tow rating under the new standard simply because of the luxury appointments while the LC 200 did not.

But why would Lexus (or Toyota) would allow that without protest?

And no one would call LC "lower" trim by any standard. LC is well known to be probably the most luxurious and most expensive vehicle in Toyota line-up. I doubt that SAE or whatever institution would catgorized LC as a base trim. Come on!

Why the change over the years for LX? I don't know. Could it be that Lexus/SAE has found the AHC (or related components of LX) to wear faster or durability issues with high weight tow rating? This is not some sort of random classification that LX suddenly fell into.

Remember the door sticker that many of us got on the door jam stating decreased payload? These are NOT random stuff dude. Engineers, SAE, Lexus, Toyota, etc. all keep a very close eye on every single vehicle that they produce down to the last gram!! They don't want lawsuits because of some catastrophic accident.

For Lexus to accept the lower limit, then there is a reason. Remember, this is Lexus marketing we're talking about here that is taking a big hit vs competition. Many customers look at tow ratings when they buy a big SUV. You think Lexus would take this drop without protest? Unless there is a reason behind it...thus Lexus has not said anyting publicly.

Yeah, LX is better at towing because of AHC in general terms. BUT the tow capacity is lower than LC for some reason. And it is not random nor due to any new SAE rule that applies to LX and not to LC. Nonsense IMHO.

 

[Madtiger]

https://www.cars.com/articles/toyota-lowers-tundra-tow-ratings-gains-credibility-454061/

"J2807 establishes tow-vehicle performance requirements against the following criteria to establish max ratings: timed acceleration on level ground and up a 12 percent incline; maintaining speed on a real-world grade; understeer; trailer-sway response; braking and park brake at GCWR; and tow-vehicle hitch/attachment structure. To minimize test variations, it provides standard test trailer specifications and requirements for their use in these tests."




Toyota (and thus Lexus) has adopted J2807 since 2011 on ALL their tow vehicles. No exception. So, Lexus LX570 has diminished tow capacity because at some point in the above test criteria, it does it less efficiently than LC. That is the bottom line.

BTW, 2011 LX570 tow rating was changed to 7000 lbs due to above. So, 7000 lbs limit is for ALL Lexus LX570, not just the 2016 and up.

I hope that we can put all this to rest and not spew more tin foil hat nonsense. Lexus LX tows better than LC because AHC self-levels and can squat to get hooked up easier. No argument. BUT the tow capacity is indeed less than LC by about 1000 lbs. No argument.

 

[rscoleman]

Why I bought and LC over LX.
Its says Land Cruiser and Toyota on vehicle not Lexus. This goes to as kid I wanted and LC not a Lexus.
It has coil spring and shock suspension. I can fix and alter that easier than AHC. Note this is my opinion not looking for discussion on it.
Styling wise I like LC look year to year over the LX and I like it a lot more than last 6 or so years of LX.
Most people have no idea what it is they just think it is large Toyota SUV. Lexus is still Lexus so not a sleeper vehicle.
Greater number of dealer options for service work. Example I live near Austin Texas. 1 Lexus dealer and 4 Toyota dealers in under 60 miles. Note quality of dealership to work on a very low volume LC varies greatly so while their are more Toyota dealers they are not all created equal but still more options and would be if you were out on road anywhere in US. Also Lexus dealer is ok working on LC at least the one in Austin.
Down side was my 2 year old LC cost more in 2018 than LXs with same age and mileage. Odd as LX were more expensive when new.
I have not towed with LX, I have towed with my LC and do so on regular basis, 3000lb boat. It does this with zero issues. I have pulled a 7500lb trailer and with proper set up this was also a none issue. Make me wonder how much better the LX can be as I have had zero issues.

In the End you have to live with what you buy day to day. Get what you like and don't second guess yourself. Good luck finding you next new ride.

 

[LX Cruiser]

Yeah, LX is better at towing because of AHC in general terms. BUT the tow capacity is lower than LC for some reason. And it is not random nor due to any new SAE rule that applies to LX and not to LC. Nonsense IMHO.

The standard by which it is judged changed, not the vehicle in ANY way. Performance remained exactly the same as before. My manual and specs say 8500 lb towing. A 2011–which again is EXACTLY THE SAME–is lower. Does the 2011 perform worse? No. The standard by which it is judged changed.

The highest trims of Toyota's other towing vehicles were hit in the exact same way. A 2010 Sequoia limited can tow significantly more than a 2011. Did ANYthing change other than the rating system by which it is judged? Of course not.

Recall that Australia will certify the exact same 200 series with an upgraded GVWR of 9200 lb (that's a literal TON higher than factory spec) if you only upgrade suspension and add armor.

It's not nonsense to recognize that there are obvious margins built in to the vehicle.

 

[Madtiger]

The standard by which it is judged changed, not the vehicle in ANY way. Performance remained exactly the same as before. My manual and specs say 8500 lb towing. A 2011–which again is EXACTLY THE SAME–is lower. Does the 2011 perform worse? No. The standard by which it is judged changed.

The highest trims of Toyota's other towing vehicles were hit in the exact same way. A 2010 Sequoia limited can tow significantly more than a 2011. Did ANYthing change other than the rating system by which it is judged? Of course not.

Recall that Australia will certify the exact same 200 series with an upgraded GVWR of 9200 lb (that's a literal TON higher than factory spec) if you only upgrade suspension and add armor.

It's not nonsense to recognize that there are obvious margins built in to the vehicle.

Right. Because prior to 2011, there were NO STANDARDS! Manufacturers can put up literally FAKE numbers and call it a day! That was why J2807 came out...to make EVERYONE follow the same rules so that you can compare apples to apples.

So, now that both LX and LC are on the SAME standard, LX towing capacity took a hit. LC did not. BOTH went thru the same testing protocol.

In essence, your Owner's Manual quote of 8500 lbs tow capacity was FAKE NEWS from day one. Toyota fudged the tow testing to get that number. When your LX was put thru the new standard, the truth came out. Thus, your numbered lowered. Lexus/Toyota accepted it (rightfully so)...so should you.

Of course there are margins built into these vehicles...all vehicles. BUT, it does not mean that these numbers are vague and that it means nothing. Come on.

Lexus LX tows better than LC because AHC self-levels and can squat to get hooked up easier. No argument. BUT the tow capacity is indeed less than LC by about 1000 lbs. No argument.

 

[HighRanch]

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

 

[Heckraiser]

And no one would call LC "lower" trim by any standard. LC is well known to be probably the most luxurious and most expensive vehicle in Toyota line-up. I doubt that SAE or whatever institution would catgorized LC as a base trim. Come on!

In markets where ALL trim levels are available, KDSS is the "standard" suspension across all models except as an add-on option to the base stripped down model, which comes with regular sway bars standard. AHC is only available on the up-market VX and Sahara trims (two highest trim tiers). The LX570 also has more sound deadening, acoustic glass, etc, all options that were only available in VX and Sahara trim. The USDM LX is the equivalent of a top-trim model, the USDM LC is the equivalent to a well-appointed mid-tier trim model.

Again, not a statement on which is better, just that if you look at the feature list, the LX would be top trim and the LC would be a well-optioned mid-trim.

 

[LX Cruiser]

Right. Because prior to 2011, there were NO STANDARDS! Manufacturers can put up literally FAKE numbers and call it a day! That was why J2807 came out...to make EVERYONE follow the same rules so that you can compare apples to apples.

So, now that both LX and LC are on the SAME standard, LX towing capacity took a hit. LC did not. BOTH went thru the same testing protocol.

In essence, your Owner's Manual quote of 8500 lbs tow capacity was FAKE NEWS from day one. Toyota fudged the tow testing to get that number. When your LX was put thru the new standard, the truth came out. Thus, your numbered lowered. Lexus/Toyota accepted it (rightfully so)...so should you.

Of course there are margins built into these vehicles...all vehicles. BUT, it does not mean that these numbers are vague and that it means nothing. Come on.

Lexus LX tows better than LC because AHC self-levels and can squat to get hooked up easier. No argument. BUT the tow capacity is indeed less than LC by about 1000 lbs. No argument.

Lol. "Fake news." "No standards."

Yes, In our insanely litigious society, McDonalds has to write "caution your hot coffee is actually hot" on their cups to avoid 7 figure lawsuits, but ultra conservative Toyota just pulled tow ratings out of thin air with "no standards" prior to J2807.

My point is not that J2807 is meaningless, but rather that if one insists on towing with a 200 series, the LX is the superior choice. Period. It will handle just fine the same loads that an LC will squat terribly under, even up to the LC's tow rating.

By the way, I'd love to see someone tow 8500 lb with any 200 series and not be over payload.

Speaking of, what is your door jamb payload number and GVWR on your LC? The actual numbers printed on your door jamb. I'm pretty sure you're in the exact same neighborhood as I am: GVWR between 7100 and 7300 lb, and payload between 1200 and 1300 lb.

 

[04UZJ100]

Maybe it’s because of the different tire pressure ratings across the trucks? ??!!

 

[Madtiger]

In markets where ALL trim levels are available, KDSS is the "standard" suspension across all models except as an add-on option to the base stripped down model, which comes with regular sway bars standard. AHC is only available on the up-market VX and Sahara trims (two highest trim tiers). The LX570 also has more sound deadening, acoustic glass, etc, all options that were only available in VX and Sahara trim. The USDM LX is the equivalent of a top-trim model, the USDM LC is the equivalent to a well-appointed mid-tier trim model.

Again, not a statement on which is better, just that if you look at the feature list, the LX would be top trim and the LC would be a well-optioned mid-trim.

Not arguing that. Of course LX has more luxury features. But someone was implying that LC tow capacity in USA by SAE was not lowered because it was a base trim and thus was ignored by SAE requirements. Utter nonsense.

 

[Madtiger]

Lol. "Fake news." "No standards."

Yes, In our insanely litigious society, McDonalds has to write "caution your hot coffee is actually hot" on their cups to avoid 7 figure lawsuits, but ultra conservative Toyota just pulled tow ratings out of thin air with "no standards" prior to J2807.

My point is not that J2807 is meaningless, but rather that if one insists on towing with a 200 series, the LX is the superior choice. Period. It will handle just fine the same loads that an LC will squat terribly under, even up to the LC's tow rating.

By the way, I'd love to see someone tow 8500 lb with any 200 series and not be over payload.

Speaking of, what is your door jamb payload number and GVWR on your LC? The actual numbers printed on your door jamb. I'm pretty sure you're in the exact same neighborhood as I am: GVWR between 7100 and 7300 lb, and payload between 1200 and 1300 lb.

You know what i meant.

Did you know that Toyota once listed my 2002 4runner with 11" of ground clearance? Yes 11". Stock. How? They measured from ground to frame.

Shameful. Even now, 2022 4runner has ground clearance of 9.6". But really it is 8.3 at the lowest point.

OEMs fudge their specs all the time. Obviously, there is no "J2807" standard for measuring ground clearance!

But that was why J2807 came out, right? OEMs were using their OWN testing protocols and then posting it. And their own protocols were done to maximize the specs race, probably often time using UNREALISTIC methods/procedures that regular folks don't use.

J2807 became the minimum standard for every OEM to measure by. That's all.

Like i wrote above, IF you tow often, LX is a better choice. No argument from me. None. BUT if you only talk about tow capacity, then LC is superior.

BTW, not sure about 8500, but my LC tow capacity is 8100 lbs i think. I don't care really because i don't tow.

If i needed to tow something nearly THAT heavy, then i would get Ford F250/350 and call it a day. IMO, using LC/LX to tow anything more than 6000 lbs is dumb. Just me tho.

I am sure that my door jam says something similar. I am at work...car at home. But that won't change LX tow capacity of 7000 no matter how much YOU want to rationalize it or try to make excuses (like TeCKis300).

 

[TeCKis300]

LOL. I love it when our resident madkitty flips out.

 

[lx200inAR]

Maybe it’s because of the different tire pressure ratings across the trucks? ??!!

Don't forget that the LX requires more octanes as well...

 

[04UZJ100]

Don't forget that the LX requires more octanes as well...

Ours get 87.

 

[DirtNap]

All this fixation on towing , and you are all miss the big reason to pick an LX: the kick-ass Mark Levinson stereo!

Plus, the ability to use AHC to lower the car for ingress/egress is pretty nice. And a lift-on-demand.

 

[Heckraiser]

I went out wheeling last week with a couple guys in pickups (taco and colorado). They both got a kick out of the AHC going up. I was told "nice party trick,"