1996 80 Kill Switch Question - How do I wire this baby up?

Dave 2000

Not all Land Rovers are useless!
 
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I would probably interrupt the fuel pump relay with a hidden switch. Of course you could bypass the relay with a paperclip at the test port but what are the odds that the thief would figure that out?
Absolutely but that is the beauty of my setup, you fit your own relay anywhere you wanted to, remember the relay allows you to switch any load from anywhere to anywhere, you can also fit dummy run wires, the options list is very very long.

regards

Dave
 

Dave 2000

Not all Land Rovers are useless!
 
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I don't know exactly the design decision fo differing wire sizes on either side of the connector, but I can make an educated guess. Resistivity is proportional to wire cross-sectional area (effectively gauge) and length. To keep overall resistance down, they likely sized the longer portion of the wiring larger, and they could still use smaller gauge wire in the shorter runs near the ignition switch, to make routing easier.
Spot on IMO, I run heavy cables from the solar panels to the power distribution board, and then use a lighter gauge around the controller and switch gear. One of my panels is wired to be able to roam, and the cable for this is way over gauged but I don't get the voltage drop.

regards

Dave
 

Dave 2000

Not all Land Rovers are useless!
 
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Here's an idea... If you're hell bent on some weirdo mod to your rig, why not read the EWD and some basic books on electrical circuits? You know, rather than just showing up with a rats nest of wires and asking for someone to spoon feed you the solution.

Just a thought

Ignore him, he is winding you up, it is clear he has never purchased anything from IKEA. :D

regards

Dave
 

Dave 2000

Not all Land Rovers are useless!
 
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PNWFJ80

You can just pull the fuel injection relay out of the fuse box under the hood each time you park, without that relay your truck isn't going anywhere. Plus the likelihood of a thief having one of those relays in his pocket is slim to none!
Years back we used to take out the rotor arm from the distributor, some with the rarer and more expensive cars had quick release steering wheels, always a good pub talk topic. Whilst pulling the injection relay is a good and pretty much fool proof way to disable your car there is going to be a couple of issues. The first is constant removing and reinstalling the relay will not do the socket connectors a lot of good, eventually they weaken and lose their tension on the relay connectors, and as they are not simple 4 way connectors, some with as many as 8 if you get an issue with loose connectors it can be difficult to track down, and second is the lazyitis effect. It is pissing down with rain and you are popping into the café to meet a mate and have a coffee now, are you going to get out of the car with your coat on, pull the hood release, open the fuse box and pull the relay, and repeat when you return? Even if the fuse box is inside you have to grope around under the dashboard often standing outside with the door open, it is not conducive to keeping up with your antitheft campaign, the system I propose means you switch off the ignition and run into the café. You have just disabled whatever systems you wanted to, you may have chosen a multiple contact relay? The very act of turning off the ignition will have disabled the starter, the ignition and the fuel pump. You CANNOT forget to enable your antitheft device. Consider this, you switched off and left the car but forgot to take the keys, the car is still secure, the thief can grope around for a hidden switch, he will not find it because it is not there, in fact by all means fit a dummy switch. In 1977 the only way to start my car was by squeezing the sun visor until you got a line of four red lights on the dashboard, there was only four options as I built it using an old 8 track module, yes I really was that sad back then but, living in the East End of London stolen cars was a continual thing and the thieves knew their way around cars. These days I am often asked to move the OBD socket and put a dummy version in it's place, you have to think outside of the box if you want to keep a valuable car.

At the end of the day if someone wants your car they will get it........period.

regards

Dave
 
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One other thought I'd volunteer here. I was a valet way back in the day and in my entire time parking various fancy stuff, I came upon exactly ONE car whose kill switch I couldn't defeat in 15 seconds -- simply because almost all were wired the same way, to the left turn signal, by lazy installers.

That one, though... I still remember it because all the other valets came running when they heard all the honking. It was wired so that if 12 volts did NOT go to the starter relay, it went to the horn. And the switch was something goofy like one of the power window switches. Was on a Thunderbird belonging to the owner of a car audio and alarm install shop -- so he made his guys do the job right!
 

jaymar

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One other thought I'd volunteer here. I was a valet way back in the day and in my entire time parking various fancy stuff, I came upon exactly ONE car whose kill switch I couldn't defeat in 15 seconds -- simply because almost all were wired the same way, to the left turn signal, by lazy installers.

That one, though... I still remember it because all the other valets came running when they heard all the honking. It was wired so that if 12 volts did NOT go to the starter relay, it went to the horn. And the switch was something goofy like one of the power window switches. Was on a Thunderbird belonging to the owner of a car audio and alarm install shop -- so he made his guys do the job right!
A tad more explanation for a non-electronics guy?
 
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Found what I was looking for after tracing the wires from the ignition...the cutoff relay from the factory alarm! Or whatever it is, anyhow it was hidden in plain sight. So I took apart the connector to test my switch madness(gently pry the yellow plug out of the back w/ a pocket screwdriver, then use a pick to press down the half moon black plastic tab in the valley of the spade connector, then the connector should press out of the back), and as of now I’m the golden god of 1995-1997 80 Series(w/ factory alarm) kill switch wiring. So my ideas worked, the factory alarm still does it’s thing, but I need to change the gauge of my wire, otherwise it’s ready to wire up and test it out for a few weeks.
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Just my suggestion for simplicity, have you tried a relay bypass kit? It's basically a relay with a switch...
I don’t do a ton of electrical work, but just added one of these to my amazon cart, looks handy, appreciate the suggestion!
 
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A tad more explanation for a non-electronics guy?
Sure, I'll give it a try. I don't have a lot of formal training with this so I'll do my best to describe how it works.

So basically, most of us think of relays as switching from OFF to ON when you apply power to the appropriate lead of the little miniature electromagnetic gizmo inside them that does the actual work of switching. And a lot of relays work that way. But some switch from ON to ON, they're just switching which lead is getting +12v. You can use that kind of relay as OFF/ON by not connecting (and insulating, please!) one of the ON leads, if that makes any sense. But you can also connect something (like a starter relay) to one of the ON leads, the one that is selected if you apply +12v to the control circuitry, and something else (like a horn relay) to the other ON lead, the one that is selected if you don't apply +12v.

What makes this tricky is that if you stop there, the horn would just honk endlessly while the truck is parked. There are a few ways out of that situation, one of them being to make the horn relay ignition hot (only gets +12v when ignition is on) instead of always hot. This does mean you won't be able to honk if the truck is turned off, but probably you weren't planning to do that anyway. It also means the factory alarm won't be able to honk if the truck is turned off, though.

So when the truck is at rest, nothing happening, the horn circuit is connected but is not being energized because there is no +12v to the horn relay.
When someone tries to start the truck without hitting the kill switch, the horn circuit is energized. Meep meep!
When someone tries to start the truck and hits the kill switch, the relay switches power to the starter relay, and starts the truck.

To say the obvious, kill switches do add unnecessary circuitry that can fail and strand you. If you install one, make sure you understand how to undo it if the relay fails far from home.
 

jaymar

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Sure, I'll give it a try. I don't have a lot of formal training with this so I'll do my best to describe how it works.

So basically, most of us think of relays as switching from OFF to ON when you apply power to the appropriate lead of the little miniature electromagnetic gizmo inside them that does the actual work of switching. And a lot of relays work that way. But some switch from ON to ON, they're just switching which lead is getting +12v. You can use that kind of relay as OFF/ON by not connecting (and insulating, please!) one of the ON leads, if that makes any sense. But you can also connect something (like a starter relay) to one of the ON leads, the one that is selected if you apply +12v to the control circuitry, and something else (like a horn relay) to the other ON lead, the one that is selected if you don't apply +12v.

What makes this tricky is that if you stop there, the horn would just honk endlessly while the truck is parked. There are a few ways out of that situation, one of them being to make the horn relay ignition hot (only gets +12v when ignition is on) instead of always hot. This does mean you won't be able to honk if the truck is turned off, but probably you weren't planning to do that anyway. It also means the factory alarm won't be able to honk if the truck is turned off, though.

So when the truck is at rest, nothing happening, the horn circuit is connected but is not being energized because there is no +12v to the horn relay.
When someone tries to start the truck without hitting the kill switch, the horn circuit is energized. Meep meep!
When someone tries to start the truck and hits the kill switch, the relay switches power to the starter relay, and starts the truck.

To say the obvious, kill switches do add unnecessary circuitry that can fail and strand you. If you install one, make sure you understand how to undo it if the relay fails far from home.
Thanks!
 

Rivman1243

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Why not wire it up like the late 80's Toyota pickups and 4runners with the clutch cancel switch (minus the actual clutch switch) ? I think it uses a latching relay
 

LandCruiserPhil

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Kill switch is good if you remember and use it.
I wired a system that auto resets every time you shut the ignition off. To start the ignition needs to be in the on position and you press a momentary secret button to complete the EFI circuit and then it will start. If you do not complete the sequence all it does is crank. Once you shut the engine off its start over. It is so seamless many watch knowing and never see the secret.

FWIW - Smart thieves now days tow you rig and dont care about your alarm or kill switch.
 

Dave 2000

Not all Land Rovers are useless!
 
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Sure, I'll give it a try. I don't have a lot of formal training with this so I'll do my best to describe how it works.

So basically, most of us think of relays as switching from OFF to ON when you apply power to the appropriate lead of the little miniature electromagnetic gizmo inside them that does the actual work of switching. And a lot of relays work that way. But some switch from ON to ON, they're just switching which lead is getting +12v. You can use that kind of relay as OFF/ON by not connecting (and insulating, please!) one of the ON leads, if that makes any sense. But you can also connect something (like a starter relay) to one of the ON leads, the one that is selected if you apply +12v to the control circuitry, and something else (like a horn relay) to the other ON lead, the one that is selected if you don't apply +12v.

What makes this tricky is that if you stop there, the horn would just honk endlessly while the truck is parked. There are a few ways out of that situation, one of them being to make the horn relay ignition hot (only gets +12v when ignition is on) instead of always hot. This does mean you won't be able to honk if the truck is turned off, but probably you weren't planning to do that anyway. It also means the factory alarm won't be able to honk if the truck is turned off, though.

So when the truck is at rest, nothing happening, the horn circuit is connected but is not being energized because there is no +12v to the horn relay.
When someone tries to start the truck without hitting the kill switch, the horn circuit is energized. Meep meep!
When someone tries to start the truck and hits the kill switch, the relay switches power to the starter relay, and starts the truck.

To say the obvious, kill switches do add unnecessary circuitry that can fail and strand you. If you install one, make sure you understand how to undo it if the relay fails far from home.

Just the quickest of notes, if using a typical cheap relay it is unlikely to have a spike suppression diode between the coil contacts, make sure the relay you buy has one or fit one when wiring the relay, something simple to forget, in either case your coil positive should go to number 86 on the relay and the earth to 85, that way if a diode is present it will not blow the moment you put the connections the wrong way around.

If you are not sure grab a simple diode which costs a few cents, IN4001 would be an easy one to find.

No spike suppression is a no no on cars with electronics involved, the 80 may be old but they do have some sensitive components in the ignition system, add in radios etc.

regards

Dave
 

alia176

 
 
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Just another thought for us to mull over and that is the DIY relay circuit that few of us have installed to get around the dreaded "starter click click no start" issue.

We could use a factory (maintained) switch that fits in one the blank spots to allow power going to this aux starting circuit. In another words, it's not a self resetting like what Phil mentions above but if you don't press this switch, you'll get no start. Of course, you'll have to fall into the habit of pressing this switch (to arm your kill circuit) before you walk away from your vehicle. On the other hand, you can press the switch, start your engine, then press it again (armed for next starting cycle). It's not like you're going to be starting your engine while you're driving but at least it's ready to go for the time you turn off and just walk away.

Currently this DIY aux circuit is triggered by the starter "start" wire from the ignition. We can easily add a maintained switch into this circuit so that it has to be closed in order for the start trigger to work correctly.

It is one more step to deal with but if you're worried about your leaving your ride in sketchy hoods, this could be an option.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.....
 
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jaymar

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Kill switch is good if you remember and use it.
I wired a system that auto resets every time you shut the ignition off. To start the ignition needs to be in the on position and you press a momentary secret button to complete the EFI circuit and then it will start. If you do not complete the sequence all it does is crank. Once you shut the engine off its start over. It is so seamless many watch knowing and never see the secret.

FWIW - Smart thieves now days tow you rig and dont care about your alarm or kill switch.
Oh you could screw that too with some kinda axle lock, but PITA for short-term stops. Slide bed still works tho.
 

jaymar

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Just another thought for us to mull over and that is the DIY relay circuit that few of us have installed to get around the dreaded "starter click click no start" issue.

We could use a factory (maintained) switch that fits in one the blank spots to allow power going to this aux starting circuit. In another words, it's not a self resetting like what Phil mentions above but if you don't push this switch, you'll get no starting. Of course, you'll have to fall into the habit of pressing this switch (to arm your kill circuit) before you walk away from your vehicle. On the other hand, you can press the switch, start your engine, then press it again (armed for next starting cycle). It's not like you're going to be starting your engine while you're driving but at least it's ready to go for the time you turn off and just walk away.

Currently this DIY aux circuit is triggered by the starter "start" wire from the ignition. We can easily add a maintained switch into this circuit so that it has to be closed in order for the start trigger to work correctly.

It is one more step to deal with but if you're worried about your leaving your ride in sketchy hoods, this could be an option.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.....
What DIY relay circuit?
 
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And I ended up taking everyone’s advice and went the relay route, this is how I ended up wiring the relay(the antenna motor was my tester)
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