Builds 1988 BJ74 “Number 1” (1 Viewer)

[FJBen]

That's the part number in my notes. I don't know if it's MLS. Beno probably does.

Thanks!

Looks like it is. I found this interesting note:

Note 1: 3B and 13BT engines did not originally come with MLS gaskets.


Note 2: Cylinder head and block surfaces need to be perfectly flat as per the service specifications in the Factory Service Manual. ** MLS Head Gaskets are only capable of sealing imperfections of up to about 0.002" across all 4 cylinders **

From this page:

MLS Head Gasket 3B & 13BT 11115-58110 OEM

Cylinder Head Gasket - Toyota 3B, 13B, 13BT Multi-Layer Steel type (MLS) Liner / Sleeved Engines only<br /> Toyota pn:<br /> 11115-58110<br /> Toyota - Japan

www.shopraddcruisers.ca

I know the machine shop guy was very specific on how the smoothness and level was has to be on MLS headgasket.

He said he would show me how to clean the block to make sure I don’t Nick anything to keep the surface like it was when we shaved it

He’s going to check the head as well when I bring it in.

Pretty surprised honestly this happened, I drive my junk like an old dude

She was running great and I’ve averaged 22mpg all summer.

 

[OGBeno]

Looks like it is. I found this interesting note:

Note 1: 3B and 13BT engines did not originally come with MLS gaskets.


Note 2: Cylinder head and block surfaces need to be perfectly flat as per the service specifications in the Factory Service Manual. ** MLS Head Gaskets are only capable of sealing imperfections of up to about 0.002" across all 4 cylinders **

From this page:

MLS Head Gasket 3B & 13BT 11115-58110 OEM

Cylinder Head Gasket - Toyota 3B, 13B, 13BT Multi-Layer Steel type (MLS) Liner / Sleeved Engines only<br /> Toyota pn:<br /> 11115-58110<br /> Toyota - Japan

www.shopraddcruisers.ca

This is correct.

3B/13B-T and later B iteration engines all went to MLS HG.

@FJBen That is the correct part number and the one you want.

 

[FJBen]

This is correct.

3B/13B-T and later B iteration engines all went to MLS HG.

@FJBen That is the correct part number and the one you want.

Thanks sir! I think that’s the number I used when I first did it.

 

[OGBeno]

Thanks sir! I think that’s the number I used when I first did it.

Oh yeah….. please correct me: this is an engine you rebuilt?

 

[FJBen]

Oh yeah….. please correct me: this is an engine you rebuilt?

Correct, i had an awesome machine shop do that work, but I assembled it all. Beginning of the thread has all the good rebuild info.

40,000 miles and 5 years since rebuild and it runs amazing…just not sure why the headgasket let go externally.

 

[OGBeno]

Correct, i had an awesome machine shop do that work, but I assembled it all. Beginning of the thread has all the good rebuild info.

40,000 miles and 5 years since rebuild and it runs amazing…just not sure why the headgasket let go externally.

Human-machine interaction has always had a tenuous interaction. There is no way that the service world can even come close to the factory specifications to build an engine.

Ever. I’ve seen the entire truck being built before. It’s impossible.

Generally speaking, humans have about 75-80% of the ability of machines to replicate technologies that are now 100 yrs old. These are ancient power train technologies, especially associated with Toyota Land Cruiser.

 

[FJBen]

Needed some time away from vehicle repair, so we went to wildwood music in Louisville CO. Unbelievable selection of guitars and super nice people.

My son playing a nice Suhr for any guitar heads…. @CruiserTrash

View attachment 3753736



On the plus side, since everything else was fresh on this engine, I don’t think I’ll need to mess with much else.

 

[FJBen]

Human-machine interaction has always had a tenuous interaction. There is no way that the service world can even come close to the factory specifications to build an engine.

Ever. I’ve seen the entire truck being built before. It’s impossible.

Generally speaking, humans have about 75-80% of the ability of machines to replicate technologies that are now 100 yrs old. These are ancient power train technologies, especially associated with Toyota Land Cruiser.

I fully believe that. I was hoping it would last a lot longer, but we are talking novice enthusiast (me) in a garage with basic tools vs….Toyota.
The original gasket lasted 480,000kms. Highly possible I didn’t do something right.


Overall I’ve had very minimal issues l, a few tiny leaks an a bad gasket but really it’s been great.

 

[OGBeno]

This is slam bam thank you ma’am.

Gaskets, seals and away you go.

This is not full overhauling situation.

 

[cruiserdan]

This is slam bam thank you ma’am.

Gaskets, seals and away you go.

This is not full overhauling situation.

As long as the cylinder head and engine block surfaces are perfectly flat, with the correct surface finish for the MLS head gasket.
That's the wild card.

 

[FJBen]

As long as the cylinder head and engine block surfaces are perfectly flat, with the correct surface finish for the MLS head gasket.
That's the wild card.

I know it was the correct surface finish on both when I first did the rebuild. Will find out what he says about the head when I bring it in.

 

[cruiserdan]

Don't forget to check the block deck.

 

[FJBen]

Don't forget to check the block deck.

Yep he’s showing me how to clean it and make sure there it’s all good.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Needed some time away from vehicle repair, so we went to wildwood music in Louisville CO. Unbelievable selection of guitars and super nice people.

My son playing a nice Suhr for any guitar heads…. @CruiserTrash

View attachment 3753736



On the plus side, since everything else was fresh on this engine, I don’t think I’ll need to mess with much else.

Should have gotten in touch so I could give you the prototype high beam indicator module! Next time…

Anyway, the photo isn’t loading but Wildwood has some top shelf stuff. The only Rickenbacker dealer in Colorado too … and I like my Rics.

*Only the black Ric 360 is mine, but I do have access to playing/borrowing the others whenever I want.

 

[FJBen]

Is the only block drain that terrible bolt above the starter? What a mess that is going to make.

I pulled radiator so i can fix that timing cover leak with a new gasket. I’m probably going to reseal the oil cooler as well although I think that’s more of a sealer on bolt issue.
And might as well redo the side cover while I’m at it…..


Yesterday I pulled and tried to retorque the headgasket. A few of the bolts on the back by the exhaust were “loose” compared to the others. Probably didn’t help anything.

 

[FJBen]

Got the head off.

I cant see any blowouts or anything amiss. I’m bringing it all to the machine shop and see what he says next week.



Cylinders an all look great. Liners look good, all ridges look good.

The only think I can think of is that the head bolts on the exhaust side and one on the back were not up to the same torque as the others.
Why it just started leaking I’m not sure…

 

[FJBen]

I had a question about MLS vs composite headgasket and if there was any torque updates needed. From what I found a lot of places online stated no need for a different torque value when you switch to an MLS gasket.
However @Eurasiaoverland brought up some great points about what Toyota did. In the manual for 3Bii, 14b,15b then are using torque to yield and MLS gaskets. That torque figure is 39ft lbs, plus 90 degree turn, plus another 90 degree turn. That would end up much higher than the 87ft lbs the 13b states. Eurasiaoverland confirmed they are on there really hard.

My questions, is there a TTY bolt for the 13b available?
Is the bolt for the 3Bii/14b/15b same? Same
Thickness/thread/length?
Slightly overtorque the standard bolts to like 92-97 lbs?
Just slap the known head bolts in at 87, retorque after a few heat cycles and forget it?


I’m not sure it was lifting because of any overboost issues at all, it also didn’t blow so maybe I’m overthinking it.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

The 3Bii/14B/15B bolts are M12x1.25 and 123 mm long, with 12 point heads. If that is the same as the old 3B/13B bolts, I don't see any reason not to use the new type of bolts.

I know a guy running high boost on a 14B-T who runs 3VZ ARP head bolts, but I think this is overkill if your boost is at near stock levels.

If there are no cracks in, or warping of the head or block and the gasket looks fine, then I think the bolt torque is a good candidate for the cause of the leak. Putting everything back together the same as last time is not likely to fix the problem. I'm no expert, but I don't think MLS head gasket 'blow' like bitumen/fibre gaskets.

 

[FJBen]

The 3Bii/14B/15B bolts are M12x1.25 and 123 mm long, with 12 point heads. If that is the same as the old 3B/13B bolts, I don't see any reason not to use the new type of bolts.

I know a guy running high boost on a 14B-T who runs 3VZ ARP head bolts, but I think this is overkill if your boost is at near stock levels.

If there are no cracks in, or warping of the head or block and the gasket looks fine, then I think the bolt torque is a good candidate for the cause of the leak. Putting everything back together the same as last time is not likely to fix the problem. I'm no expert, but I don't think MLS head gasket 'blow' like bitumen/fibre gaskets.

It appears the 13bt head bolts at m12x1.25 x 119mm so doesn’t look like the new TTY ones will work.

I haven’t heard of the 13bt messing up head gaskets even under big boost so I’m wondering if it’s just not enough torque on those bolts?

The ARP head studs are interesting, but Probabaly overkill for sure.

 

[FJBen]

Got off the phone with the machine shop. Going to bring the head Monday. Just talking a little bit and got some info.

#1 don’t overtorque bolts. Risk stripping thread or pulling out of block. Might not happen…but might.

# 2 don’t use random headstuds that fit, have to make sure application is close or overkill in strength. Said he likes arp studs for sure, but you have to have the right application/specs.

#3 he bought a machine to calibrate and check surface finish and said all of his came out better than required for smoothness for an MLS gasket so should be zero issues at all.