13BT into a FJ60

[Stickboy]

Fixed that darn filler pipe for good tonight. Took it off and got the dremel tool with a cutting wheel on it. Cut the flapper right out. It's wide open now and looks good.

Also built a temporary exhaust from the 74 and 60 exhausts. Drops mostly straight down and stops sloping back a little between the leaf springs and the front driveline. Should work ok for the 4 mile trip to the exhaust shop.

So the pressures on now. I'm going to Seattle on June 11 in the cruiser for a family get together. It has to be reliable by that point since I'll be travelling with my wife and 2 boys (2-1/2 and 6 mos).

Does anyone know the oil quantity of the 13bt engine with a filter change. I went off the Aus book of LCs and it said 10.9 US quarts. Boy that was wrong. I was surprised but after owning a 7.3 liter power stroke I believe any quantity is possible. I'm guessing closer to 6 quarts? At 7+ quarts I had about 1/4" above the Full on the dipstick.

Oh... here's a picture from below of the exhaust:
-mike

 

[72cruiser]

lookin nice man

 

[smcruisin]

the B series factory manual (dated march 1986) states (page 4 in the lubrication section):

Oil Capacity:
Drain and refill
without Oil filter change
5.8 liters (6.1 US qts, 5.1 Imp. qts)
with Oil filter change
6.7 liters (7.1 US qts, 5.9 Imp. qts)
Dry fill
7.3 liters (7.7 US qts, 6.4 Imp. qts)

There is no mention of any oil capacity differences between any of the B engines (B, 3B, 11B, 13B, 13B-T). I know these numbers work with my 3B.

Cheers,
Steve


btw, I think I speak for everyone when I say we are proud to see you striding through a very involved project, and doing so with such quality and attention to detail. Nice work!!!

 

[Stickboy]

So she fired up tonight. Several problems to address, one at a time.
No 4wd shift (should have swapped the manual t-case like Wayne said, vac shift - what a PITA); Power steering might be working now, Tachometer not working, fuel not getting to the filters.

To start off my fuel system is sort of complex, maybe too much so. Since I'm going to be running 100% biodiesel (bd) I have a system like this. Tank to small metal NAPA filter to catch gunk in tank that bd releases then to a heated 2 micron RACOR filter then to the fuel pump then to a NAPA 3393 fuel filter (it's just there so I didn't have to chop and fabricate all the banjo fittings off the stock setup. So I primed the whole unit and it fired right up. After a while (5 minutes of idling) she slowed down and died. Still fuel in the bowl of the racor. Opened the line at the small disposable filter and no fuel present. I'm guessing the pump isn't drawing fuel from the tank. So i then look at the fuel pump/sender unit in the tank but don't want to drop the tank so I don't.

I'm wondering if in my 24/12 v issues I disconnected the feed to the tank pump and if that would cause my lack of fuel issue.

Will the fuel pump draw fuel from the tank through the pump and all my filters? Any ideas of how to check the circuit for the fuel pump in the tank (where to look for a harness/connectors). All the wiring diagrams don't include it, only the fuel level sender. The picture diagram of the tank shows the pump but all the books just refer to it as fuel level sender. I'm confused. It's the 86 FJ60 stock fuel setup which looks remarkably similar to the Bj60's.

I'm guessing this is why the rig died. boy oh boy was it sweet to here her run. not nearly as loud as I thought it'd be.

-mike

 

[cruiser_guy]

I'm with you on the fuel issue. I think you've got too much filtration on the suction side of the fuel pump. There is NO fuel pump in the tank on the BJ60, I don't think the FJ60 has one either, and only the water separator comes before the fuel pump on the engine.
On the '55 3B conversion I've installed a Racor filter/water separator, sans filter element due to concerns of insufficient pump suction head, prior to the pump and using just the stock fuel filter.
No plans for bio-diesel either though.
With all the filtration you've installed prior to your engine mounted pump you need a tank pump to get the fuel moving.

The tachometer on the BJ60 uses a proximity sensor thing on the bellhousing since there is no coil signal to derive an RPM signal from. Did you swap in the BJ74 tach and senders? Did the BJ74 tach work prior to dismantling? The senders often get trashed during clutch/tranny work.

 

[Stickboy]

cruiser_guy,
thanks for the input. i'm going to try bypassing all my filters other than the stock today to see if that solves it. Do you have any idea of what aftermarket pump one can get that'll go inline and create enough suction to draw diesel from the tank? 12v or 24v is fine with me.

the tach sensors are good still and the bj74 unit worked fine. the problem is that it doesn't fit in the 60 cluster. they are totally different. i'm thinking i need the bj60 tach. i have the lead run from the hall effect sensors sitting under the dash waiting to be hooked up.
no huge deal right now, my dodge and vw don't have tachs. nice but not absolutely necessary yet.
-mike

 

[Stickboy]

So the excess of filters was definately the problem. I bypassed and went to the orignal setup and it fired right up after some bleeding of the lines. Did a little shuffle in the shop and out she went for a spin around the driveway. Here are some of the pics....

 

[72cruiser]

wow man,

awesome. i'm pumped for ya



malphrus

 

[Stickboy]

The shop from which she was born...

 

[cruiser_guy]

I like the tach in the 'Cruiser. I keep the revs under 3000 but it will readily hit the high 3000's if you let it, which in my opinion is too high. You can hear it get up there though so a tach isn't strictly necessary but when the wife or kids drive it and are not as conciencious as I might be at least I can tell them 3000 or less.

I've got the guts of a BJ60 tach but no way to mount it in the '55 dash and have a decent looking finished product.

What does the BJ74 tach look like? Maybe a trade is in order!

 

[Stickboy]

So here are the problems I still have left to address. If you have any ideas I'd love to here them:

1) Power steering - vibration in the wheel and not smooth steering. i'm guessing it's in need of more bleeding. some foam in the fluid.

2) charge light stays on. my wiring there is pretty interesting since there isn't a good wiring diagram for a 74 w/o IC regulator.

3) 4wd doesn't shift. I'm guessing just a voltage to the switch issue. no biggie I hope.

4) Pump to pull diesel from tank and push it through the heated RACOR filter. Any ideas of a source for one?

5) A/C. Hmmmm.... I have a 60 with a 74 compressor in it. I need to some how tell it to turn on/off with a 60 amplifier. Do I make a tone generator to tell the 60 amplifier the engine is running or do I try and put the 74 amplifier in and deal with the 24v issues and the little button on the dash? Any other ideas?

6) Button up all the wires under the dash.
7) replace the windshield
8) finish L rear corner and paint.
9) tint rear windows
10) 3 pt belts in rear
11) new stereo
12) fast idle cable hookup to gas pedal
13) swap tires with those on 74

I think that's it.....
-mike

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Very cool I haven't back back to this thread in a little while... RE the 74 compressor, give it 12 volts and see if the magnet sticks, there are no electronics to damage. If it does, then use the stock 60 series wiring and leave all of the AC components in tact with wiring and all. I put 60 series wiring into a 24V HJ60 and it was a bitch. We had to order a BJ60 12V amplifier, if possible don't mess with it at all and leave as is (IMO).

Otherwise sweet. If you want to sell your Racor filter I have the smallest one that is sweet but I almost want something bigger... Looks absolutely great!

Andre

 

[Stickboy]

Here's the latest....

Went today to get the exhaust. $219 later I had a brand new 2.5" aluminized exhaust. Probably not the fanciest thing but the bends look good and the routing is nice and tight. Thanks to Tom Gilchrist for his input on designing the exhaust and recommendations. I decided to go away from the stock bj60 routing and modify it some after talking with the exhaust guy. The routing goes like this:

1) Down from the manifold (2" down put an EGT probe)
2) Turn 90 to rear of vehicle
3) Turn 90 to left just in front of tranny crossmember and cross under the front driveshaft. As the pipe goes across the crossmember we squished it slightly to lower it's profile. It hangs about 1/2" below the crossmember and is flush with the top so as to not interfere with the front driveline if the front axle is lifted
4) turn to rear of vehicle and travel to muffler in front of rear axle
5) up and over the axle and out the stock spot.

Put the underplating back on and affixed the new used mudflaps. Finished up the worlds crappiest body work on the rear left corner. I'd say it's reminiscent of those pinch pot ash trays you made in third grade. Considering the starting point it's ok until I can afford to replace the whole corner. It's not rusting now, not crushed, and is the same color as the rest of the car.

Here's a pic of the start and I'll post a pic of the finished product tomorrow.... (I have birds that live in my shop - note the calling card )

 

[Stickboy]

Oh forgot, driving it today was a pleasant surprise. I'm sorry to say but the folks who told me that I wouldn't be happy with the power and needed the 12HT (albeit a mighty nice drive) were wrong. Honestly I can't tell much difference from driving the BJ74 over this thing. Not to surprising since the weights are fairly close (400 lbs?) It seems to have almost as much pickup as a my 03 VW Jetta TDI and gobs more than my 86 TD Jetta. Nice surprise.

Oh, the clutch seems to work fine with a BJ74 slave and a FJ60 Master. I opted to not swap over the 74 vac assist clutch until I tested it out and it really doesn't feel any different than any clutch I've ever had. Is there any concern over throwing the clutch too far or not far enough. It doesn't seem to be slipping at all and shifts great.

Also, I used some Vac/Fuel line for the brake booster line. well that was dumb, it sucked flat after a few seconds of running. Swapped that out with some Power Steering line.

I'm still having some issues with the power steering, there is resistance in the wheel when turning hard, you can tell the pump is working though, a low moaning sound can be heard (not any squealing) and you can feel a small vibration in the steering wheel. I'm guessing it needs more bleeding. The book doesn't say anything about bleeding with the front on blocks. That's how I've bleed PS systems in the past; Is that the recommended way for a cruiser?

Andre: If I do give the compressor 12v to throw the clutch by what method do i send that 12v. Typically the amplifier sends the signal but mine won't without a signal from the coil saying the motor is running at the designated rpm. Should I build a tone generator to mimmick the coil signal? If so, anyone have any idea what the signal is (pulse rate, duration, voltage).

thanks again,
mike

 

[JohnnyZ]

Try mounting the power steering resevoir higher than the pump.Pumps are gravity feed and may be cavitating ....Nice install ....

 

[Stickboy]

Ah Ha!

Fixed the Power steering issue. there must have been a bubble(s) somewhere in the line for I put the front end on blocks and turned the wheel about 25 times in each direction and the sounds/resistance went away. Works great now.

4WD: Started diagnosing thinking I was going to need some vacuum gauge/pump unit. Working my way backwards from the connector at the solenoid I wasn't getting any good readings. Finally got to the switch and low and behold you need to hook up the +24v line to the #2 terminal. It was hanging in the air with a nice label on it. Hooked it up and it worked mostly. Had to switch the vac lines around so the 4wd engaged when you pushed the button versus disengaging. Must have crossed my hoses somewhere.

Hooked up the EGT. It's an Alcor airplane EGT with a fancy probe. Picked the whole unit up off ebay in pieces for $70. I need to calibrate it so the * is at 1200 degrees. That'll give me 800-1400 for a range. Not a complete range but if the needle moves in there I can idle till it drops.

Took it out for a spin and I think I need to check the speedo. I'll be driving 25 and it feels like 35-40 mph. Odd....

-mike

 

[Stickboy]

So I figured out the charge light issue. It was working as it was supposed to. I didn't have the "F" lead hooked up to +24v. It was tucked under some other wires and disconnected all together. Fixed the problem and the funny readings on my ammeter were fixed right away.

Take her for another test drive tomorrow and see how the elec system works now.

I ordered a knuckle kit, tie rod kit, and OME steering stabilizer. Start working on the suspension now.

I think an OME spring setup is due as well.

-mike

 

[Stickboy]

Here's the latest:
Installed the tach last night thanks to a parts swap from cruiser_guy. Thought the install would be more difficult but really the tachs have 1 lead (red) that takes the signal from either the ignitor or flywheel sensors depending on your fuel type. Ran the lead from the flywheel sensors into the dash and spliced it into the harness, plugged her in and away we went. I had to swap the housings since the diesel one was busted up a little.

Received the Walbro 24v lift pump yesterday as well. It's going to mount somewhere near the fuel tank and push diesel/biodiesel through the Racor 645 heated fuel filter then into the mechanical pump and through the stock filter. It's specs are 24vdc, 10psi, 45 gph. It has both a magnetic filter and 420 micron screen in it for gross filtration. Evidently these pumps are used extensively in Oz with excellent (20+ years lifespan) results. At $85 including s/h it's pretty good deal. They come in many voltage/flow variations.

I have a small leak in the rear of the t-case. It looks to be the o-ring on the rear idler shaft. Talking with Wayne it sounds like I can pull the locking tab off and pull the shaft out enough to expose the o-ring, swap it and put her back in. Hopefully that'll go smooth. The OEM o-ring will be here tomorrow along with the rear 3-pt seat belt conversion. I don't have the nut on the backside of the C-post so that'll be fun installing the nut. On slowspeed.com there is a pretty elaborate method for getting the nut back there. I'm going to fastenal tomorrow to get a grade 8 metric nut tomorrow.

till then,
mike

 

[The Dude]

Question about your Walbro filter. Where did you get it from? Are you going to run a "bypass" to control the pressure to the mechanical lift pump? hhmm, is it a lift pump or was there a fuel pump on the 74? Is side loading the lift pump with 10 psi a concern? Is there a fuel return to the tank? (I am assuming there is) 430microns....that'll stop the leaves!! What micron filter do you have for the Racor? Wouldn't it be better to remove the factory filter and run dual Racors????

Actually, does anybody know what the factory filter is rated at? I can't imagine that they are very good at cleaning fuel as I don't think the one in my cruiser was ever changed and it had 60000km on it....My 2micron CAT filter goes about 15-20 KM before it needs changing.

Sorry for all the questions, just curious!!

I am totally intrigued with this swap 8)

 

[Stickboy]

BT,
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/
I wondered the same questions myself. After talking with a guy who has this same pump (12vdc though) on a 12ht I was reassured it's ok. Many folks in Oz run this setup I guess. The response seemed to be that the mechanical pump would like it. As for a bypass the Walbro is internally bypassed at 10psi, so the mech pump should never see anything more than that and I'm guessing my 2 micron racor will take care of some of the pressure as well. I'm also going to have one of those disposable NAPA filters before the Racor until I get all the gunk out of the tank once I start running biodiesel. Pretty elaborate setup of filters but it's what'll work best I think.

Yes there is a fuel return to the tank and evidently the 13bt returns gobs of fuel as well.

I thought about bypassing the stock filter but fabricating/modifying the stock fuel lines with the 4 metric banjo fittings would cost way more than putting a stock filter on it. My first inclination was to just stick with the Racor until I started thinking about the PITA it'd be to deal with the lines.

hope that helps somewhat....

If you have any ideas about this pressure relief/pressure to the intake of the mech fuel pump I'd love to hear them.

-mike