JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
- Thread starter
- #61
It is. Cost me $300 to build, which includes the TT mounts and FR fairing as well.
100s are tough, but elk hurt
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JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
- Thread starter
- #63
Based on the body height of the average elk, I do think that an ARB Deluxe or Ironman bumper that has hoops would have mitigated the severity of body damage. I say this because my stock bumper reinforcement is completely undamaged - not even a single bend. Thus, the body of the elk was almost entirely above the frame rails on impact and directly inline with the grill, headlight, and fender. The hoops of an ARB or Ironman bumper probably would’ve bent on impact with the elk’s body, but damage to the body of the Cruiser would’ve been much less (or perhaps even negligible). So one likely would have to replace the $1300 bumper after such a collision, but that’s much better than $6k to replace most of the front end of the Cruiser.Hi, glad you and you're family are Ok. Sorry about the vehicle. Do you think if you had an ARB bumper like this it would have prevented damage or just added something else to repair? I live in Colorado so elk are a worry for me as well.
However, I’m not a mechanical engineer so my above opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. Folks like @Somebodyelse5 and others who actually are engineers would be better able to answer your question from a structural perspective. Nevertheless, my expertise is in wildlife and I can confidently say that I’d rather hit a deer or elk than a bear or moose, the latter two of which would cause absolute destruction of a Cruiser.
Hi, glad you and you're family are Ok. Sorry about the vehicle. Do you think if you had an ARB bumper like this it would have prevented damage or just added something else to repair? I live in Colorado so elk are a worry for me as well.
Bull bars absolutely minimize damage to the radiator support area. They're well proven to reduce the risk of vehicle-killing damage (radiator damage, most commonly) and are/were designed to stop kangaroo's/cattle/wildlife from stranding people driving across vast expanses of land where a breakdown might mean somebody dies.
Recent deaths prompts warning outback travel dangers could rise
In the wake of six recent outback deaths, a thermal physiologist warns warns temperatures are climbing and "these tragedies should prompt us to consider whether we are doing things appropriately".
www.abc.net.au
Any piece of typical armor you can put in front of the radiator support will help. Additionally, most/all bumpers on the market tie the two front points of the frame horn together with a piece of steel at least as strong as the frame itself. This strengthens the front end and can work to deflect some energy that would have gone entirely to one end into the other as well. Whether it saves money is a bit more situational dependent as a little damage can cost a lot to fix and the bull bar might mean a hit to the corner also dents your hood/headlights/grill, etc.., but from a mechanics perspective the bull bars are a huge win when it comes to animal strikes.
Safety overall, on the other hand, is definitely debatable. I think it's a benefit, but I can understand the arguments that removing/altering any part of the factory airbag sensors and crush zones is a bad idea. I think reinforcing the central area and tying the sides into the center is beneficial, but others disagree.
Somebodyelse5
16124-75030
Bull bars absolutely minimize damage to the radiator support area. They're well proven to reduce the risk of vehicle-killing damage (radiator damage, most commonly) and are/were designed to stop kangaroo's/cattle/wildlife from stranding people driving across vast expanses of land where a breakdown might mean somebody dies.
Recent deaths prompts warning outback travel dangers could rise
In the wake of six recent outback deaths, a thermal physiologist warns warns temperatures are climbing and "these tragedies should prompt us to consider whether we are doing things appropriately".
Any piece of typical armor you can put in front of the radiator support will help. Additionally, most/all bumpers on the market tie the two front points of the frame horn together with a piece of steel at least as strong as the frame itself. This strengthens the front end and can work to deflect some energy that would have gone entirely to one end into the other as well. Whether it saves money is a bit more situational dependent as a little damage can cost a lot to fix and the bull bar might mean a hit to the corner also dents your hood/headlights/grill, etc.., but from a mechanics perspective the bull bars are a huge win when it comes to animal strikes.
Safety overall, on the other hand, is definitely debatable. I think it's a benefit, but I can understand the arguments that removing/altering any part of the factory airbag sensors and crush zones is a bad idea. I think reinforcing the central area and tying the sides into the center is beneficial, but others disagree.
I think from a graceful degradation standpoint, you are spot on. When getting out is a life or death scenario, a bent frame is much preferred over a destroyed cooling system.
@JunkCrzr89 do you have any pictures of our community slee bluberry? I'll see what I can dig up. I think seeing some pictures of what an oblique impact to arguably the most stout bumper available for the 100, and what the mounting structure looks like, will give us an idea as to what the frame horns looked like after the impact. Do we know if that same impact, with a factory bumper, would have caused less frame damage? I have no idea. But I think it's safe to say more energy was directed through the bumper to the frame (especially since the bluberry is so beefy), rather than to all the other bits. This at least shows what end of the spectrum looks like. ARB also has their accordions to help absorb energy, you may be only hitting small game, you might be in wartorn territory and getting home is all that matters, or you may only be bumping into pylons in parking lots. idk. there is a lot to consider. Let's have a zoom call this weekend over that case of beer I owe @JunkCrzr89
That said, I am not arguing that folks shouldn't run front bumpers. I run the iron man on the 100 and I am feverishly searching Clist for a used *anything* for my 80... I am just saying, a beefy front bumper isn't always going to provide the most protection during high speed impact, especially against insurance adjusters totalling your rig
Side note, my *nice* ex used to be one of those adjusters and if frame damage was involved, it was almost always a total. Maybe that was just that provider? Idk. Personally, I think it's cool seeing cars crab down the freeway.
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JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
- Thread starter
- #66
Somebodyelse5
16124-75030
hey it’s @CruiseLanderAZ feet!
I think I have a picture that shows the mounting bits a bit better, i remember them being fairly out...but i’ve hit my head since then (@JunkCrzr89 we need to mtb soon)
JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
- Thread starter
- #68
We were on the last leg of our nearly 6,000-mile roadtrip, just 95 miles from home, at 1:30AM, just below the Mogollon Rim. Having driven this highway dozens of times in all types of conditions, from afternoon monsoon rains to heavy snowstorms at night, I knew that elk were everywhere at all times. However, despite my corresponding cautious driving changes to attempt to prevent a collision with one of these monstrous ungulates (driving 10 miles below the speed limit, my wife and I both visually scanning the road and shoulders for elk, etc.), the evil stars aligned in a dark, hard turn of the highway nestled in a swag...A cow elk galloped out in front of us. I slammed the brakes, but not soon enough or hard enough to avoid disaster. The elk is dead, my 100 is mangled
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On the bright side, my wife who is 7-months pregnant, our 3 year-old daughter, and our two dogs were all just fine. I also didn’t try to swerve to miss the elk, but instead hammered down in the brakes, so avoided a rollover in the curve. The Cruiser still runs great! Radiator not busted, engine still running like a top, etc. The airbags did *not* deploy, so the brakes did their job in slowing us down. Fortunately, I have AAA Gold Plus, which will tow you anywhere within a 100 mile radius for no charge; thus, we rode in the cruiser all the way home on the back of a tow truck.
View attachment 2391308
On the downside, it was dark and I haven’t assessed the damage extensively yet. The hood, fender, grill, bumper cover, etc. are toast obviously. Unclear what, if any, of the critical body supports are damaged, but I suspect at least the radiator support is jacked. Mechanical damage seemed to be limited.
The cruiser is currently sitting in my driveway. I’ll have to muster up the strength to go check it out in the daylight. Any suggestions for working with insurance (Liberty Mutual)? Certainly, my primary concern is that the damage will be too costly to fix and insurance will consequently total it out. My 3-year old is already bummed that the cruiser she helped me work on is “hurt”, but she’ll be crushed if it’s a goner!
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Sad day and the follow-up will be tough – but by far the main thing is that all occupants survived unscathed -- best wishes to all the @JunkCrzr89 family.
Hope the repair goes well.
It does remind me why I attached an ARB Deluxe bar at the front complete with upper hoops plus ARB Intensity lights. Just looking at the repair estimate by @Njck22 at post #45, and given I have hit a few large ~60kg (~132 pounds) kangaroos, luckily with only paint damage to the bar, I can say that the investment in front protection and lights have given me a great rate of return. There are no elks in this part of the world but plenty of wildlife – kangaroos, emus, wombats, wild pigs, feral camels -- all equally erratic, and which also love the nightlife particularly dawn and dusk when the sun is low and driver vision is challenged. Unfenced outback roads can involve a chance encounter with livestock individually weighing up to half a tonne. Hitting some of these big animals at speed definitely will be a showstopper – however the idea is for the occupants to survive and for the vehicle still to be drivable even if it is limping and fatally wounded with a twisted frame – no fun to be stuck with an undriveable vehicle hundreds of kilometres (or miles) from anywhere with family on board, let alone if there are injuries to persons. We all know that is best not to drive at night in high risk areas but sometimes it has to happen. So vehicles on these kind of travels in Australia tend to wear good driving lights and front bars with at least complete upper hoops across the front and sometimes sidebars leading to sliders, usually steel (many consider aluminium a bit soft), preferably one of the brands which are engineered to allow airbags to work properly if necessary.
There is rising interest in parts of Australia in lightweight ‘Smartbars’ – 32kilograms (70 pounds) without winch but sadly not available for older models like LC100 because of insufficient demand – maybe US folks could create some demand! These are made of high strength UV stabilised polymer -- see SmartBar Bull Bars - Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series (10/15+), have an appearance only a mother could love but are very effective at energy absorption -- recently taken over by ARB. Comes in Henry Ford colours – “any colour you like so long as it black!”
This short video shows a collision with a ‘Smartbar’ and a young steer – happily all survive including the steer and the vehicle damage is minimal:
There are some short clips about crash testing amongst all the advertorial in this link:
Advertorial by TJM testing animal strike capabilities on their bars:
Kangaroo vs TJM Bull Bar
Plenty of ARB info and videos out there.
@IndroCruise vehicle:
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JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
- Thread starter
- #70
Thanks for chiming in with great info @IndroCruise Those smartbars are intriguing. I wonder how they fare against rocks, trees, etc? Seems like they’re designed primarily for animal strikes. Also, I’m surprised at just how little damage your ARB sustained after a couple of animal strikes. Definitely a testament to their effectiveness and design.
The bumper has been passed on to me. I am almost done with the rebuild. I will post a picture of it tonite when I get home.
Somebodyelse5
16124-75030
Excited to see how you went about it. I looked at that thing for far too long before I decided I didn't want to dive into it and @JunkCrzr89 took it out of my backyard
The full rebuild of the bumper will be posted in my LX build thread when I am done.
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Thanks all. We just had about 15 minutes of hail about halfway between golfball and baseball size. I have dents, they're not terrible and my vehicle being white is a plus. I'm thinking the insurance will pay for an ARB front bumper and maybe most of a rear with tire carrier as well. Besides the dents are aerodynamic right? It's still hailing but I'll add a pic.
We have three 100 series, one with an ARB, and two with the factory "tupperware". While I prefer the lower profile Dissent, Slee Blueberry, or TJM T17, I have a hard time ignoring the "protection" that the ARB offers from being "totaled" from an errant deer/elk, or S10 pickup, after my son's "incident".
forum.ih8mud.com
I think I preferred the ARB on my 80 series without the "crush" area in the mount to the frame, but the 100 series ARB still seems pretty sturdy from our experience.
What have you done to your 100 Series this week?
forum.ih8mud.com
I think I preferred the ARB on my 80 series without the "crush" area in the mount to the frame, but the 100 series ARB still seems pretty sturdy from our experience.
JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
- Thread starter
- #78
You worked some magic on that thing. Many of us stared at it for hours trying to figure out how to straighten it...Here's my progress so far on the Blueberry bumper rebuild. Thanks to all that passed on it and gave me the opportunity to fix it.
View attachment 2394760
Glad to hear you were safe and insurance is working to get you fixed up. One thing though...see if you can get some $ for diminished value cause if you ever sell it, you’ll be on the lower end of price range due to accident. Even if u don’t sell it, more money in your pocket.
JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
- Thread starter
- #80
I was notified this morning that the Insurance company has officially decided to NOT total the jalopy
No idea what payout will be to fix it yet, but they did value the truck as being worth $9k
No idea what payout will be to fix it yet, but they did value the truck as being worth $9k
