ARCHIVE 100 Series Coil Over Conversion Kit (1 Viewer)

[duggy]

Although I agree with you and that is what I want, I could see their conundrum. If they go out even a couple inches then the interference with the fender is eminent, or you are limited to a smaller tire size that few of us want to run. If you make it 2” wider, longer travel (which is really what we want), and we want to keep running the tall 34ish inch tires (seems most popular) then someone will have to cut into their fenders and figure out everything that goes along with that. It seems that few people here would be willing to do that.

The other option is to get McNeil or someone else to create a modest fiberglass fender for our rig. Nothing too crazy, just give us an option to bolt on and paint a clean & higher clearance solution with consideration for the inner fender.

Now, what I would like to know is if @KOR metal FAB looked into moving the wheel 1” or so further forward to minimize interference with the firewall! Like Big Mike’s Tacoma Marlin Crawler build.

Clearly, they can fab by the looks of the jig and welds and other projects, but making sure there was a market for this and then marketing it thoroughly seemed to be a bit of a flop. No content since last Aug isn’t a good way to continue to build enthusiasm for the new most expensive front suspension upgrade available.

Where is the rig that this first one was to be installed on? Aren’t there pics of it installed? Comments on it being tested? Keep us enticed, we do want to support out of the box thinking.

Rant complete

With the stock 100 series wheel offset being so high, and the WMS so low, there is definitely room in the 100 series for the wheel to move outboard for the benefit of more travel. Of course there is a limit, but folks that run 1.25" spacers have no issues on the trails, and that can actually be pushed out another 3/4" without any issues.

The 100 series does not have typical issues with interference on the body mount like the 120 series platform does. You can always push the wheel forward with more caster and adjustable upper arms anyways, which this kit includes.

I commend them for thinking outside the box and offering something different to the market. The price is high, and I'm not entirely sure if they'll ever sell a kit here, but it's cool to see people innovating and bringing products to the market.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I'd just like to see it in action in a video. Without that, there's zero chance I'll consider spending this much cash.

 

[SALTY METHODS]

What about extending the stock A-arms like these guys did. See Dezertrangers.com forum post:

Budget Long Travel

Then get some aftermarket axles:

Longfield Toyota Inner Axle Shafts

 

[Somebodyelse5]

I commend them for thinking outside the box and offering something different to the market. The price is high, and I'm not entirely sure if they'll ever sell a kit here, but it's cool to see people innovating and bringing products to the market.

I'm not really sure what is innovative about what these guys are doing... the rest of the offroad world gets this stuff, it's not new, it's just a very odd application since they didn't really change any of the kinematics of the suspension, but are charging more than similar kits for other vehicles that DO change the kinematics... it's just a boxed version of the factory LCA with beefed up mount for the coilover...if you have some odd desire to run coilovers, sure this kit would work, but at what benefit? Your cv's are still the limiting factor for the down travel.

This is inline of what I would like to see for the 100...
TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION - 1996-2004 Tacoma 6 Lug Prerunner & 4WD Long Travel Suspension Kit

At the end of the day, why wouldn't we just go the SAS route?

 

[DirtDawg]

At the end of the day, why wouldn't we just go the SAS route?

As @duggy has experienced, solid axles don’t mount well under our cruisers due to frame design and therefore it’s hard to keep your COG low. Hopefully he can chime in on the matter. They are really just two completely different beasts.

Personally to me long travel A-Arm suspension is more appealing to me because I’d rather run higher speeds on rough terrain as well as gain a little more travel for trail situations all while keeping COG low and making the rig more stable. Solid axles have fewer potential points of failure, but are not as capable. There’s a reason almost all modern cars have switched to independent suspension. And the fact that we are starting to see more long travel builds across platforms than SAS.

 

[MTKID]

With the stock 100 series wheel offset being so high, and the WMS so low, there is definitely room in the 100 series for the wheel to move outboard for the benefit of more travel. Of course there is a limit, but folks that run 1.25" spacers have no issues on the trails, and that can actually be pushed out another 3/4" without any issues.

The 100 series does not have typical issues with interference on the body mount like the 120 series platform does. You can always push the wheel forward with more caster and adjustable upper arms anyways, which this kit includes.

I commend them for thinking outside the box and offering something different to the market. The price is high, and I'm not entirely sure if they'll ever sell a kit here, but it's cool to see people innovating and bringing products to the market.

I agree completely that it is great to see them creating something new that hadn’t been done yet.

Maybe our disagreement on fender interference is based on tire size. The common 33” might work, although I don’t know how you could be certain though without trying it.

I don’t think the larger tires that some would like to run (do I dare say 35”?) would work a full 2” further out.

The interference that most people are already familiar with is behind the wheel well. It is technically the rocker panel at its lowest point but then a large tire next interferes with the firewall above that. The rocker panel is easy to cut and patch. The firewall/pinchseam above that not so much. Spacers that increase scrub steer make that interference worse but possibly putting the ball joint out there further might be ok. No, there is no interference with a body mount.

How far further forward do you think you can move the wheel with just the adjustable UCA before the caster is too far out of spec?

I appreciate the discussion and I hope it helps progress the 100 series whether through KOR or anyone else.

 

[DirtDawg]

I will just throw this out there. In a year or two I plan on making a fiberglass fender mold if no one has come out with a set of fenders by then. Probably something modest like stock stylings with a 2” rise and a 1” flare. Basically to open up the options for larger tires (35s on stock suspension) and for a front LT kit.

Currently started CAD design on the LT kit, but unsure if I want to keep the stock spindle and gusset it, or just fab up a new spindle. This will be a more long term project however.

 

[SALTY METHODS]

@DirtDawg YES! Please do.

 

[yotasavg]

I will just throw this out there. In a year or two I plan on making a fiberglass fender mold if no one has come out with a set of fenders by then. Probably something modest like stock stylings with a 2” rise and a 1” flare. Basically to open up the options for larger tires (35s on stock suspension) and for a front LT kit.

Currently started CAD design on the LT kit, but unsure if I want to keep the stock spindle and gusset it, or just fab up a new spindle. This will be a more long term project however.

Now we're talking, this is what the masses are waiting for. I'm still a massive proponent of the Blazeland kits for the old pickups/4runners. Yes it's super budget, but it's proven and works. I'd install and try out a solution like that on my DD 100 in a heartbeat.

 

[duggy]

I'm not really sure what is innovative about what these guys are doing... the rest of the offroad world gets this stuff, it's not new, it's just a very odd application since they didn't really change any of the kinematics of the suspension, but are charging more than similar kits for other vehicles that DO change the kinematics... it's just a boxed version of the factory LCA with beefed up mount for the coilover...if you have some odd desire to run coilovers, sure this kit would work, but at what benefit? Your cv's are still the limiting factor for the down travel.

This is inline of what I would like to see for the 100...
TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION - 1996-2004 Tacoma 6 Lug Prerunner & 4WD Long Travel Suspension Kit

At the end of the day, why wouldn't we just go the SAS route?

Long travel cannot be compared to a solid axle swap. They are 2 different animals accomplishing completely different goals. A solid axle (swapped) vehicle will never drive like it did previously on IFS. Ever. The main reason why I did my SAS on my 100 was because I was tired of wearing front end components, which high mileage 100 series love to do. They are finicky creatures. The second reason was to prove to myself that I could do it.

The main reason for wanting to go with a coilover setup is now you have a much wider variety of tuning available to you, depending on height and dampening needs. Riding in a coilover setup, there's just a more confident feel about how the vehicle rides on and off road, especially in a big beast like the 100 series. Torsion bars are an old and antiquated technology. There's a reason Toyota went back to coilovers in the 200 series, and all across the board on the 120/150/Tacoma/Tundra series also.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Long travel cannot be compared to a solid axle swap. They are 2 different animals accomplishing completely different goals. A solid axle (swapped) vehicle will never drive like it did previously on IFS. Ever. The main reason why I did my SAS on my 100 was because I was tired of wearing front end components, which high mileage 100 series love to do. They are finicky creatures. The second reason was to prove to myself that I could do it.

The main reason for wanting to go with a coilover setup is now you have a much wider variety of tuning available to you, depending on height and dampening needs. Riding in a coilover setup, there's just a more confident feel about how the vehicle rides on and off road, especially in a big beast like the 100 series. Torsion bars are an old and antiquated technology. There's a reason Toyota went back to coilovers in the 200 series, and all across the board on the 120/150/Tacoma/Tundra series also.

I'm not trying to compare the two, I'm just trying to say that for the cost of this coilover kit, you could do a solid axle swap and get the flex that most people are after with our rigs. The major limit for us, wheeling, is the front suspension...people want more down travel and you can't get that with factory kinematics...so to me, people are after the same thing

So, for a lot cheaper you could go get an OME kit and throw some fox or radflow resevoir shocks and spend some time with a tuner, you can get a pretty great ride...

I guess my point is, why would anyone spend this much on a coilover kit that will give you zero gains in travel and articulation...even if the ride is a little better?

 

[Trunk Monkey]

for 5k we could all just go do a solid axle swap and be done with it... do away with all this IFS nonsense.

If you can SAS a 100 for $5k you'll have a long list of people take you up on it. Try more like $10k plus for the couple that have been done.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

If you can SAS a 100 for $5k you'll have a long list of people take you up on it. Try more like $10k plus for the couple that have been done.

I stand corrected. I still don't think this kit is worthy of 5 grand though...

 

[yotasavg]

If you can SAS a 100 for $5k you'll have a long list of people take you up on it. Try more like $10k plus for the couple that have been done.

I've seen this said so many times, but it's feeling less valid these days. I think these trucks are at a price point where more people will be able to accomplish the SAS task for far less than the couple that paid big money for someone else to accomplish the task for them. 3 linking an 80 was crazy a bunch of years ago, right? But now it's getting done in low-ceiling home garages. I understand that parts are expensive even if you can do the labor, but there are cheap 100's out there that I think will make great rigs as people find them, and some may even have parts or axles left over from past projects. Maybe I'm nuts.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

If you do all the labor and fab yourself, of course it's going to be less. But, there's not a lot of self-done SAS trucks showing up here either.

 

[yotasavg]

If you do all the labor and fab yourself, of course it's going to be less. But, there's not a lot of self-done SAS trucks showing up here either.

Your last statement is clearly true. I guess my hopeful outlook is that I anticipate more creative solutions as we've seen in other Toyota platforms. Props to garage pioneers like @duggy.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

I will just throw this out there. In a year or two I plan on making a fiberglass fender mold if no one has come out with a set of fenders by then. Probably something modest like stock stylings with a 2” rise and a 1” flare. Basically to open up the options for larger tires (35s on stock suspension) and for a front LT kit.

Currently started CAD design on the LT kit, but unsure if I want to keep the stock spindle and gusset it, or just fab up a new spindle. This will be a more long term project however.

What CAD software are you using? Would love to see it/help if you need it.

 

[DirtDawg]

What CAD software are you using? Would love to see it/help if you need it.

Solidworks. But I’m about to lose my student license so I’m trying to figure out what program I am going to migrate over to.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Solidworks. But I’m about to lose my student license so I’m trying to figure out what program I am going to migrate over to.

I've been using Fusion360, you can get a free 3 year student license, works pretty well... Fusion 360 | Free Software for Students, Educators | Autodesk

Only major downfall is that you need an internet connection to use it since it's not native (cloud based). No lags, works pretty well. I still like solidworks better, but I think Fusion360 is a lot better than some of the other options (NX, Catia(at least V5)). I've been using it to fiddle with some cooler mount designs to slap on my rear bumper

 

[DirtDawg]

I've been using Fusion360, you can get a free 3 year student license, works pretty well... Fusion 360 | Free Software for Students, Educators | Autodesk

Only major downfall is that you need an internet connection to use it since it's not native (cloud based). No lags, works pretty well. I still like solidworks better, but I think Fusion360 is a lot better than some of the other options (NX, Catia(at least V5)). I've been using it to fiddle with some cooler mount designs to slap on my rear bumper

Been using Autodesk products for a few years now. We use Revit a lot for work. I wasn’t too impressed with Fusion 360 last time I checked it out, but will look at it again. Thanks

Let’s not turn this product thread into a product-development thread