80 series guy needs advice on 200 series vs. LX 570 (2 Viewers)

[silverhorse]

Guys I'm looking to get something newer. I know cosmetically the differences between the LC and LX but anything significant other than that?

my planned mods/goals are:

Have a dependable rig I can drive off-road cross country with my family( My 94' is now 23 years old)

Long arm suspension, 33" tires, winch bar, rear steel bumper, sliders and possible a RTT and or offroad trailer..

 

[DeckerT4R]

Suspension is the big difference between the two. The LX using the AHC hydraulic suspension and the LC using a traditional suspension. Either one can fit 33 or 34 inch tires without a lift, so depending how intense you're offloading will be, both are a reasonable option. Ive done some mild trails in my LX with no issue, it still has crawl control and all the other off-road tech offered these days. You can't go wrong either way.

 

[Markuson]

Guys I'm looking to get something newer. I know cosmetically the differences between the LC and LX but anything significant other than that?

my planned mods/goals are:

Have a dependable rig I can drive off-road cross country with my family( My 94' is now 23 years old)

Long arm suspension, 33" tires, winch bar, rear steel bumper, sliders and possible a RTT and or offroad trailer..

If you plan to upgrade the suspension, go with the LC due to Auto Height function on the LX preventing any swap-out that I'm aware of. If someone manages to pull it off...it will be a first here on mud--even among our vender gurus. But personally, it sounds like your mod list is begging for an LC.

 

[KLF]

Upper tailgate is powered on the LX.

3rd row seats are also powered on the LX, makes them much harder to remove (if that is your plan).

 

[Chocolate]

Actually, the 3rd row seats are easy to remove thankfully. One of the first things I did. Just 8 bolts and two connectors and they're out.

 

[Swampmonger]

The headrest screens are an option on a new LX and standard on an LC. I wish I didn't have them, but not so much that I'd choose an LX over my LC. Anyway, just an FYI...

 

[silverhorse]

Thanks a ton for the info guys, much appreciated!!!! LC it is! I'm a simple man no AHC works for me.....
Does the 3rd row have 3 headrests? As I need all the room , 7 of us..

 

[KLF]

Yes, the middle one is hiding under the zipper in the left seat.

@Chocolate thanks for the correction on the removal.

 

[TeCKis300]

Some more info:

LC will require you to change suspension for what you want to do. LX, you'll already have a great suspension capable of just about anything. Easy 10 minute AHC sensor lift. And you'll continue to have lift on demand for 3.5"+ of lift when you want it.

AHC is proven durable to 200k miles.

Any aftermarket suspension will have a max life of 100k, with many coilovers needing rebuilds 30-50k miles.

Checkout slee's rig if you need more proof of AHC capability.

 

[silverhorse]

Interesting points but let me ask you guys this as I'm not that familiar with IFS. I'm looking for long travel , not just "lift".. I want to keep my tires on the ground during articulation. I assume Long Arm is the best way to do this? I have read about what others have done with the Tundra parts..... Would this work well with the KDSS? also, how does the AHC system work?

 

[ikeb]

i thought slider options were still pretty limited/non-existent with the LX's... no?

 

[Markuson]

Interesting points but let me ask you guys this as I'm not that familiar with IFS. I'm looking for long travel , not just "lift".. I want to keep my tires on the ground during articulation. I assume Long Arm is the best way to do this? I have read about what others have done with the Tundra parts..... Would this work well with the KDSS? also, how does the AHC system work?

This is a great explanation of how KDSS works:

NOTE: The suspension you install will not change KDSS characteristics, and yes, you can install a Tundra front end. Talk to @Taco2Cruiser about articulation on the 200.

 

[mcgaskins]

I want to keep my tires on the ground during articulation. I assume Long Arm is the best way to do this?

Long arm suspension, 33" tires, winch bar, rear steel bumper, sliders and possible a RTT and or offroad trailer..

You keep mentioning "long arm suspension", but I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Long arms are generally related to solid front axle 4 link suspensions which obviously is not remotely close to IFS. Can you clarify what you're referring to?

 

[silverhorse]

How I understand it is Long arm= more wheel travel. Such as the Tundra conversion requires their lower control arm and axles(axles is longer) this adds approx. 1 3/4" track width each side. as seen here

Nitro Gear / Justdifferentials, Project 200 Series Land Cruiser

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

This is a great explanation of how KDSS works:

NOTE: The suspension you install will not change KDSS characteristics, and yes, you can install a Tundra front end. Talk to @Taco2Cruiser about articulation on the 200.

I might get some flack for this, and I haven't mentioned this because as most you know, I don't want to be the guy who is always talking things down, even though it seem to happen most of the time.

Long travel. My FJ had a true long traveled from end, 7" wider in the front, 13" of travel long travel.
My rear was my own concoction of cuting and welding to make 29" of rear end travel.
Not a sway bar to be found and damn could I fly over the desert.

Now hear is the kicker, a 200 series in completely stock form goes higher up an RTI ramp than my FJ. Wow right! I was blown away when I first sway it.

Now back to long travel, I know some of us have it, and yes it can be the right way to go for tire clearance reason. But some that I learned from not just having long travel, but running weeks on end in a cross country/overland type wheeling is that having your tire stick out past your body gets old, real damn quick. Also take into account that the wheel can't be still flush with the body, on the slightest turn, you will still through mud/clay all on the side of the truck.

Just imagine when you are living out in the trail for weeks, and having everything from the door handles to sliders and windows covered, or windows are down and you get hit with a big hunk of crap.

So I take the cost, the unnecessary mud Moab clay/east cost mud flinging, and look at the fact that a normal track width 200 already has a better articulation setup than a 15k suspension in a FJ/Tacoma/4Runner. And say why are people wasting their money?

I'm sorry, but having the front of a 200 the width of a tundra with a high quality shock isn't going to give any real differences over a stock track width with high quality shock 200. I can hit bumps off road just as fast as the tundra arm guy and stay just as smooth and controlled.

If you need to fit a bigger tire, okay, it's a better idea than wheel spacers.

But when did anyone look at a Tundra and say, "man their front end flexes so good."

Now if you want to remove KDSS (don't cause it's awesome) and put in a tundra 3" long travel, making a total of 9" wider front, and cutting the fenders to nothing to make it fit, then yea, now we are talking.

Sorry, old desert and rock buggy guy rant complete.

 

[TeCKis300]

If your goal is specifically long arm suspension, rather than a specific use case (jumping?), than the LC is what you want. No point getting an LX only to rip out what makes that platform unique. That's not to say that AHC couldn't be modified for use with tundra arms, just that no one has tried it yet.

33's are pretty mild for the 200-series. If you're aiming for more extreme tundra arms, you might as well shoot for 34-35s.

 

[TeCKis300]

Now hear is the kicker, a 200 series in completely stock form goes higher up an RTI ramp than my FJ. Wow right! I was blown away when I first sway it.

That's pretty eye opening. I wonder if this isn't because of the firmer suspension you had fitted due to lack of roll bars. RTI is as much a function of spring rates, as articulation limits.

Roll bars are pretty darn important for street use, especially rigs with a higher roll center. Lifting inherently reduced roll resistance as the designed in roll center geometry is off.

Part of suspension tuning that OEMs have to deal with is the balance of good handling characteristics yet allowing for good articulation off road. Many of these qualities are diametrically opposed. It's easy to have Jeep like capability off road, but hard to have that with great road manners too, which is why all of us here likely seek out the land cruisers.

Which is why you see things like KDSS and AHC. They are key technologies that allow for differing suspension behavior on-road vs. off. Modifications generally will tailor the suspension to perform in one area, while almost certainly at a detriment to another. But that's okay too as we modify these to suit the gamut of our personal likes, so it's nice to have options when modding.

 

[Mogwai]

Some more info:

LC will require you to change suspension for what you want to do. LX, you'll already have a great suspension capable of just about anything. Easy 10 minute AHC sensor lift. And you'll continue to have lift on demand for 3.5"+ of lift when you want it.

AHC is proven durable to 200k miles.

Any aftermarket suspension will have a max life of 100k, with many coilovers needing rebuilds 30-50k miles.

Checkout slee's rig if you need more proof of AHC capability.

LX stock suspension is only going to take you so far before you have to replace that too. And you may be able to "trick" your suspension to get another inch but that can't be good on the components. Plus, after 20mph the truck auto lowers? That would be bad news for a lot of people, 20mph is not fast.

 

[Tremek]

The simple question of "do I want to make any changes to the suspension?" swayed me to the LC. While the LX is nicer inside, being able to modify the LC trumped any of the other benefits of the LX for me.

Moreover it's not as if we're talking an 80s-era GM-quality interior in the LC - they're still built with subtle quality LCs have been known for for decades now, it just isn't flashy (which is precisely what some folks want!)

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

That's pretty eye opening. I wonder if this isn't because of the firmer suspension you had fitted due to lack of roll bars. RTI is as much a function of spring rates, as articulation limits.

Roll bars are pretty darn important for street use, especially rigs with a higher roll center. Lifting inherently reduced roll resistance as the designed in roll center geometry is off.

Part of suspension tuning that OEMs have to deal with is the balance of good handling characteristics yet allowing for good articulation off road. Many of these qualities are diametrically opposed. It's easy to have Jeep like capability off road, but hard to have that with great road manners too, which is why all of us here likely seek out the land cruisers.

Which is why you see things like KDSS and AHC. They are key technologies that allow for differing suspension behavior on-road vs. off. Modifications generally will tailor the suspension to perform in one area, while almost certainly at a detriment to another. But that's okay too as we modify these to suit the gamut of our personal likes, so it's nice to have options when modding.

I wouldn't say springs rates were the reason for my observation of my "not much OEM left" FJ vs stock 200.

My FJ was about the same overall weight as my 200, (not a typo) springs rates are about the same.

Sway bars, yes my FJ wasn't built for someone else to drive it in the road. It was stable for me, but I no one else want to drive it in the highway. But sway bars or not wasn't what I was really talking about, I mentioned to better illustrate that a true long traveled front and rear without sway bar vehicle couldn't articulate as good as a stock SUV.

KDSS, rear axle control arm configuration, wheelbase, track width from front to rear, everything goes into how a vehicle handles move over the terrain. And having extensive wheeled in really hard, technical terrain across a very wide variety of vehicles, in stock form, the 200 is my favorite.

Now to go back to tundra control arms. Oversees 70 Series land cruiser made the front track a coupe inches wider to fit the newer 4.5 diesel, but they didn't match the rear axle width to the front. And it is one of the biggest complaints of the new 70 series. When you have an overloaded truck, fighting though soft sand, having your track width different isn't a good thing.

Trophy trucks might have super long arms, but they keep their track widths very close to the same. Stock modiefied classes might have 7" wider front teck widths, but they switch out rear axle assemblies to match.

Widening the front rack is only half the job done.