80 series guy needs advice on 200 series vs. LX 570

[FinallyGotOne!]

Damn...another LC vs LX thread but executed so incredibly well! I have really enjoyed reading the knowledgeable responses, especially the recent ones added by @Tremek and @TeCKis300 .

So I'm going to throw in my two cents: "It's all about the requirements". The answer to which suspension system is better can't be answered without first addressing what the truck will be required to do, for how long, and at what cost. The obvious extreme is the racing example. The system must perform at high speeds in very challenging conditions only long enough to win, and cost is not a limiting factor.

In the passenger market, the design-to conditions are less challenging, the system has to last 25(?) years, and the cost has to be competetive. Toyota has assessed, at least for now, that the LC market requirements are best answered with KDSS and the LX market with the AHC.

If you back into it, I think you'll find that both systems are perfect for a certain set of requirements. For example, here is why the AHC has been perfect for me for the past 17 years:

-- We do five or six long trips a year. Comfort is important on the way to whatever we will be doing, whether it is visiting family for Christmas, or four-wheeling into Park County.
-- We tow a 6000 lb boat and a 3000 lb enclosed trailer. Self-leveling and variable damping is important.
-- We need to get to mountain biking and hiking trailheads, hunting spots, and medium-difficulty off-road trails and raising the truck often mitigates risk of damage.
-- We have older parents who appreciate ease of entry when the truck is down.
-- We carry cargo now and again and I appreciate a lower truck when I am lifting something heavy in or out.
-- Back to towing: I am spoiled in that I can save time cranking the trailers up and down to ball level by raising and lowering the truck instead.
-- We hate washboard...and AHC almost eliminates it!
-- I do my own preventive maintenance and don't mind flushing the AHC according to the Toyota schedule.
-- We don't drive high-speed offroad.
-- We don't purposefully leave the ground(!)
-- We don't rock crawl
-- I may get the itch once or twice a year, but I probably won't ever put sliders on my 570
-- *** The fact that I can't put Slee bumpers front and back and still maintain my stock cargo and towing capacity doesn't bother me a whole lot...just a little. Well, more than a little, but I've traded away that requirement and can live with it.
-- If it ever does fail, the chances are exceedingly low that I will be somewhere very far offroad.

Bottom Line: For my requirements, AHC is perfect and Toyota's execution has been perfectly reliable and effective on both my '00 LX 470 and '11 LX 570.

In closing: no kidding, three days ago I came up behind a guy in what seemed to be a slammed Mercedes SUV ML-something or other sitting way low on the suspension and jumping and bobbing with every bump in the road at 60 mph. My first thought was "Why the heck would someone slam THAT thing?" As I passed him I looked inside and saw his entire family bouncing around and hating it and realized the guy's active suspension had failed and the poor guy was stuck in "Low". They looked absolutely miserable and embarrassed...

 

[Fasternfaster]

Damn...another LC vs LX thread but executed so incredibly well! I have really enjoyed reading the knowledgeable responses, especially the recent ones added by @Tremek and @TeCKis300 .

So I'm going to throw in my two cents: "It's all about the requirements". The answer to which suspension system is better can't be answered without first addressing what the truck will be required to do, for how long, and at what cost. The obvious extreme is the racing example. The system must perform at high speeds in very challenging conditions only long enough to win, and cost is not a limiting factor.

In the passenger market, the design-to conditions are less challenging, the system has to last 25(?) years, and the cost has to be competetive. Toyota has assessed, at least for now, that the LC market requirements are best answered with KDSS and the LX market with the AHC.

If you back into it, I think you'll find that both systems are perfect for a certain set of requirements. For example, here is why the AHC has been perfect for me for the past 17 years:

-- We do five or six long trips a year. Comfort is important on the way to whatever we will be doing, whether it is visiting family for Christmas, or four-wheeling into Park County.
-- We tow a 6000 lb boat and a 3000 lb enclosed trailer. Self-leveling and variable damping is important.
-- We need to get to mountain biking and hiking trailheads, hunting spots, and medium-difficulty off-road trails and raising the truck often mitigates risk of damage.
-- We have older parents who appreciate ease of entry when the truck is down.
-- We carry cargo now and again and I appreciate a lower truck when I am lifting something heavy in or out.
-- Back to towing: I am spoiled in that I can save time cranking the trailers up and down to ball level by raising and lowering the truck instead.
-- We hate washboard...and AHC almost eliminates it!
-- I do my own preventive maintenance and don't mind flushing the AHC according to the Toyota schedule.
-- We don't drive high-speed offroad.
-- We don't purposefully leave the ground(!)
-- We don't rock crawl
-- I may get the itch once or twice a year, but I probably won't ever put sliders on my 570
-- *** The fact that I can't put Slee bumpers front and back and still maintain my stock cargo and towing capacity doesn't bother me a whole lot...just a little. Well, more than a little, but I've traded away that requirement and can live with it.
-- If it ever does fail, the chances are exceedingly low that I will be somewhere very far offroad.

Bottom Line: For my requirements, AHC is perfect and Toyota's execution has been perfectly reliable and effective on both my '00 LX 470 and '11 LX 570.

In closing: no kidding, three days ago I came up behind a guy in what seemed to be a slammed Mercedes SUV ML-something or other sitting way low on the suspension and jumping and bobbing with every bump in the road at 60 mph. My first thought was "Why the heck would someone slam THAT thing?" As I passed him I looked inside and saw his entire family bouncing around and hating it and realized the guy's active suspension had failed and the poor guy was stuck in "Low". They looked absolutely miserable and embarrassed...

I want to thank @Tremek and @TeCKis300 for their knowledgeable input. I agree with the above post as well!

When i was comparing used LC200s i noticed that the LX is in better supply and at a lower price point compared to the LC. I WANTED the LC, but since I can have an LX for less while also getting the benefits of extra standard options etc it was a no brainer. Also, having a built-in lift is awesome. I know that many of say that you want to be "low key", but driving a 3 ton lifted truck is not "low key". I can jack it up when i need and if more is needed, there is the 5th Super high mode that engages automatically if i am stuck. In the parking lot, i leave it slammed down, and people don't give it a second look

I also have a family and don't intend to go bombing around off road. I just want to get to the place i want to visit and not get stuck. Even if I have to take a difficult trail to get there.

As far as armor and weight is concerned.. Both can be solved with heavier springs. Remember that this platform is commonly used for making armored cars. Those weigh a lot more than what some bumpers abd winches. Just checked, 8,791 lbs! So switch the springs and keep all the benefits! That is my plan for the future, when I add some weight.

 

[Mogwai]

I want to thank @Tremek and @TeCKis300 for their knowledgeable input. I agree with the above post as well!

When i was comparing used LC200s i noticed that the LX is in better supply and at a lower price point compared to the LC. I WANTED the LC, but since I can have an LX for less while also getting the benefits of extra standard options etc it was a no brainer. Also, having a built-in lift is awesome. I know that many of say that you want to be "low key", but driving a 3 ton lifted truck is not "low key". I can jack it up when i need and if more is needed, there is the 5th Super high mode that engages automatically if i am stuck. In the parking lot, i leave it slammed down, and people don't give it a second look

I also have a family and don't intend to go bombing around off road. I just want to get to the place i want to visit and not get stuck. Even if I have to take a difficult trail to get there.

As far as armor and weight is concerned.. Both can be solved with heavier springs. Remember that this platform is commonly used for making armored cars. Those weigh a lot more than what some bumpers abd winches. Just checked, 8,791 lbs! So switch the springs and keep all the benefits! That is my plan for the future, when I add some weight.

I think lifting alone and adding tires you're still low key (at least around my parts). Start adding bumpers or a snorkel and you start to lose it. I was wheeling up in Sequoia NF this week alone w/ the family, nothing technical but the roads still had a lot of snow melt, and therefore a lot of mud. Had come up to a 30 or 40 yd mud patch, stopped for a minute to survey and a stock Jeep pulled up, full of dudes. Guy pulled up and asked if we were continuing and I said I was scoping it out first, had no winch, but ramps and strap if they wanted to go ahead I'd pull them out. Well they ALMOST got stuck, but made it through. So we went through and it was no sweat. But this was the easier of the two of the mud patches it turns out. So we parked and hiked at the end of the tail, about to head up two guys come hiking up... sure enough the Jeep got stuck another mile down the trail. Here we are 5 miles off the main road and haven't seen another person all day, and it's getting late. Lucky guys... we rescued them, they were happy, etc... MORAL OF THE STORY? As I'm pulling them out, one of them turns to my wife and says "man that truck is powerful, what kind of truck is that?!?!" And one of his friends chimes in... "I think it's a HIGHLANDER!" ROFL... love it. Some would have been offended. But anyway... THAT'S low key. Drive an $80k truck and not turn a head. Drive an LX and absolutely you, and everyone else who see's you knows you're driving a $90k truck. Plus... its just looks more bling

PS... for more flames... I'd put my "static" lifted truck up against a stock LX from a handling and road comfort perspective any day of the week! Both on, and off road, no chance the LX holds a flame!

IMHO Stock LX may be > stock LC. But modified LC is > stock LX.

 

[mark71]

This thread is a great example of why this forum rocks. Old discussion, but many new and good points. Thanx for the very good tech chat.

My question: several people have mentioned swapping out the springs for modified (i.e. heavy) LX applications. Does anyone have any further info on this?

If Slee eventually makes sliders, I think myself and a few others will add an LX to the garage. Having driven the Land Cruiser platform, I can never drive anything else and be happy. But sometimes I just need to kill hundreds of freeway miles in a short time and using my increasingly Expo'd-out LC is feeling less and less ideal. A lightly modified (sliders and tires) LX would be perfect.

 

[Markuson]

Gotta say--

I've learned a ton from this thread.

Thanks all.

Another random observation re: LC/LX designs...
What's clear to me is how dedicated Toyota is to this platform.
The best evidence of this (to me) is what they have NOT done:

-They could easily have simply sold the same basic model all over the world to save headaches.

But they don't. They endlessly tweak things, with a zillion different versions...and despite our limited choices here in the US, they are CLEARLY not lazy. If you could see a FULL list of all the versions they do in the many forms of the LC/LX, it becomes clear that they are anything but idle. Pretty impressive to me, and evidence of a company who is dedicated to their flagship 4-wheeler.

 

[DeckerT4R]

This thread is a great example of why this forum rocks. Old discussion, but many new and good points. Thanx for the very good tech chat.

My question: several people have mentioned swapping out the springs for modified (i.e. heavy) LX applications. Does anyone have any further info on this?

If Slee eventually makes sliders, I think myself and a few others will add an LX to the garage. Having driven the Land Cruiser platform, I can never drive anything else and be happy. But sometimes I just need to kill hundreds of freeway miles in a short time and using my increasingly Expo'd-out LC is feeling less and less ideal. A lightly modified (sliders and tires) LX would be perfect.

I talked to slee back in April and they said that they had finalized the design and they were going into production. No timeframe on availability however. Budbuilt is also currently looking into LX sliders. I think before the end of the year there will be sliders on the market for the LX.


I am also interested if anyone has info on where to find springs for an LX. I've heard a lot of general "Australia has them" comments but nothing beyond that

 

[DeckerT4R]

" PS... for more flames... I'd put my "static" lifted truck up against a stock LX from a handling and road comfort perspective any day of the week! Both on, and off road, no chance the LX holds a flame. "

Dem's is fighting words. lol
I really don't care about anyone's opinion, your opinion is yours and mine is mine, but I do have to ask....
have you ever driven an lx in these various situations you speak of?

You speak of the LX like it's doesn't share 95% of its components with your LC.

Can't we all just get along? We drive basically the same trucks!

 

[Tremek]

This conversation reminded me of a review Jonny Lieberman/Motor Trend did last year that included both the LX570 and the LC:

[youtube]

Lieberman really, really likes both trucks. Disclaimer, I met Jonny a few years ago at VCHC (my car ended up in the video!) but I also respect his car opinions; he alludes to the LX as being the "more capable" truck, but it's also coming from the factory with worse approach & departure angles than the LC (even with the suspension on high in the LX), and at the end of the video you can see how badly they chewed up both the running boards and the bumpers on the LX.

Back to the OP: @silverhorse, what kind of terrain do you see yourself encountering?

 

[sleeoffroad]

We actually have the sliders done. We are just doing hardware kits and have to finalize the pricing etc. They should be for sale mid to end June. I call them the Gucci sliders since they even have LED back lighting under the thread plates that also do pool lighting under the slider. Will take pic of that when I can. The LED lights can be wired to the existing lighting circuit on the LX570. These sliders should also fit the 200.

 

[Fasternfaster]

We actually have the sliders done. We are just doing hardware kits and have to finalize the pricing etc. They should be for sale mid to end June. I call them the Gucci sliders since they even have LED back lighting under the thread plates that also do pool lighting under the slider. Will take pic of that when I can. The LED lights can be wired to the existing lighting circuit on the LX570. These sliders should also fit the 200.

View attachment 1469720

Beautiful! I want!

 

[Swampmonger]

We actually have the sliders done. We are just doing hardware kits and have to finalize the pricing etc. They should be for sale mid to end June. I call them the Gucci sliders since they even have LED back lighting under the thread plates that also do pool lighting under the slider. Will take pic of that when I can. The LED lights can be wired to the existing lighting circuit on the LX570. These sliders should also fit the 200.

View attachment 1469720

Ohhhhh, I like those. Will they be available without LEDs, too?

 

[Chocolate]

Japenese Land Cruiser with AHC

 

[Chocolate]

" PS... for more flames... I'd put my "static" lifted truck up against a stock LX from a handling and road comfort perspective any day of the week! Both on, and off road, no chance the LX holds a flame. "

Dem's is fighting words. lol
I really don't care about anyone's opinion, your opinion is yours and mine is mine, but I do have to ask....
have you ever driven an lx in these various situations you speak of?

You speak of the LX like it's doesn't share 95% of its components with your LC.

Can't we all just get along? We drive basically the same trucks!

I literally had both set up in my Autotrader search and it came down to the right truck at the right price. I really like the styling of the silver 2013-2015 LC above, and would just as soon own a Land Cruiser as an LX.

Ideally I would have one of both...

 

[TonyP]

static vs dynamic. I like my suspension as I like my Ronco Electric Food Dehydrator. Set it and forget it. Minimal hassle and maintenance.

But much like cargo shorts, whatever tickles your pickle. Different strokes for different folks. Blah Blah.

 

[Mogwai]

" PS... for more flames... I'd put my "static" lifted truck up against a stock LX from a handling and road comfort perspective any day of the week! Both on, and off road, no chance the LX holds a flame. "

Dem's is fighting words. lol
I really don't care about anyone's opinion, your opinion is yours and mine is mine, but I do have to ask....
have you ever driven an lx in these various situations you speak of?

You speak of the LX like it's doesn't share 95% of its components with your LC.

Can't we all just get along? We drive basically the same trucks!

Haha what about this discussion is "not getting along?" I'd say we most certainly are. Of course they are the similar trucks but the discussion became specific to AHC and all the benefits. It then went to a stock vs stock suspension discussion. Not sure the LC has a fight in that battle. But modified? I just know how much better mine handles now vs stock. Like... Many times over better. If the LX stock is that much better than man I would be amazed. Hence the fact-less flame comment (which was a joke). I only got to drive the LX on a dealer test drive.

Anyway... Yes I was stoking the fire. But... For me personally my points still hold true, I wouldn't want a truck that auto lowers at 29mph (I wouldn't be able to test the LX as you suggest, in the same way I use my LC since desert and faster speeds are in play) or that was difficult to modify suspension. So if that's the 5% difference than yeah to the OPs original question, that's my input.

 

[silverhorse]

WHAT HAVE I DONE.................

 

[Mogwai]

......

 

[DeckerT4R]

Haha what about this discussion is "not getting along?" I'd say we most certainly are. Of course they are the similar trucks but the discussion became specific to AHC and all the benefits. It then went to a stock vs stock suspension discussion. Not sure the LC has a fight in that battle. But modified? I just know how much better mine handles now vs stock. Like... Many times over better. If the LX stock is that much better than man I would be amazed. Hence the fact-less flame comment (which was a joke). I only got to drive the LX on a dealer test drive.

Anyway... Yes I was stoking the fire. But... For me personally my points still hold true, I wouldn't want a truck that auto lowers at 29mph (I wouldn't be able to test the LX as you suggest, in the same way I use my LC since desert and faster speeds are in play) or that was difficult to modify suspension. So if that's the 5% difference than yeah to the OPs original question, that's my input.

That's what I was saying. You have your opinion and that's fine. I know what you're saying about your suspension, when I did my OME/Dakar on my Tacoma, it handled much better than stock in my opinion. That said it doesn't hold a candle to my LX.

Having the on the fly adjustability for varying road conditions really makes all the difference. On a rough road? throw it in comfort and it will eat massive bumps like it's nothing. Do you want to race up a curvy backroad? Throw it in sport and it'll handle like a much much lighter SUV.

Unless you're doing Baja type racing then honestly I don't see how that 2" of height matters, are you bottoming out your truck? You still have the suspension travel in normal height and if you're moving fast isn't that more important anyway? If you are doing Baja type racing than you're not going to have an off the shelf aftermarket suspension anyway.

Clearly there are limits to AHC as there are limits to your LC as far as bolt on components go. There is always an ideal suspension for any given task. General aftermarket suspensions are well rounded in doing a fair bit of different tasks. They have to be to have a market.

Look at high $$ aftermarket suspensions, what do they have? ADJUSTABILITY! We all think it's incredible we can dial in our ICON or whatever brand shocks. Clearly I am not saying this suspension is better than that, I'm simply stating I think everyone puts this AHC suspension and the lx down because they view it as the soccer mom version of their car, when in actuality it's far more complex than that.

I also think if AHC had aftermarket support like the LC, we'd all want AHC. WHAT IF we could raise and lower it 6" or more? What if there were aftermarket springs and shocks available for a lift? Obviously this gets away from the OP, but if we had more LX support I think we'd see a lot of people jump the fence to the LX.

Im always looking for more ways to modify the AHC. I feel like we have this incredible "option" that because we don't understand it, we want to throw it away. It's like when the LC went from a solid front to IFS and all the old school people complained. Now we all love it for the most part or at least appreciate the benefits of IFS and what it can do. What if AHC is the next wave? What!!! LOL.

Can we get back to stuff that actually teaches us something now?

 

[Mogwai]

Haha so many what ifs! But they don't exist, heck until yesterday sliders weren't even an option. OP led with desire for long arm suspension, and sliders... first responses were all about AHC and so forth, yet not what he's asking so I chimed in based on his use case, that AHC might not be best option for him, as it's not for me, and his desires setup is...wait for it... exactly like mine!!! Tundra arms, nominal lift, sliders...

And I hate to break it to you, but 30+ mph in the desert does not constitute high speed Baja driving. I would call that a leasurly cruise through the desert.

And hell yeah I bottomed the LC numerous times before I lifted (which btw 3.5" in front and 1.5" rear). From Pismo Beach dunes to Anza to Mammoth and Big Bear, fully loaded with family in tow, to empty with 3rd row seats removed, the stock LC got a years worth of trial before suspension swap.

And I think you're wrong about people buying race suspensions specifically because they are adjustable, adjustability is a nice to have for many, not the reason for buying. I looked into the race suspensions, but my plan was to set and forget, I was interested in them because of the remote resis, additional oil volume, and perceived ability as being "the best" to eat bumps and whoops at speed. Adjustability to me was a one time factor that I needed to choose right to get a balanced preload, compression, lift. But after that, they're just nice race shocks set to fit the vehicle, that need rebuilds every so often and for me the cost did not equate to the benefit. Adjustability was not a deciding factor.

Anyway...

 

[DeckerT4R]

So you got what you want and I got what I want....

The End.