IMO if you have more than a couple acres....skip the subcompact and go to a compact. I got a smoking deal on my compact - same price as a subcompact w/o a belly mower - as it had a manual transmission and had been sitting on the dealer lot for 2 years (apparently everyone wants a more luxurious hydrostatic transmission). I've put nearly 100 hours on it in the past year and if anything found it was a bit too small. But, there are many things it did that a subcompact would simply not be able to do....like setting 900#, 35-ft long house beam at 8 ft in the air.
Your Thoughts on the LC 250? (1 Viewer)
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One thing that may prove to be different from those brands compared to Tesla, Rivian, Ineos, etc is that none of them really offered anything new or different. They were all just cheaper (and lesser) offerings of their parent companies. Tesla got EV’s really going here in the states, Rivian followed that up with electric trucks and SUV’s for the “outdoorsy, adventurous lifestyle” crowd, and Ineos sorta leaned into the same except with a more traditional/retro approach using ICE and old Defender styling cues.
Rivian loses $30-40K per vehicle. Even startups have to turn a profit at some point. It seems likely they are waiting to get bought by a major manufacturer. I think their vehicles look great. I agree that Tesla is very much the exception, while some of that is probably due to the innate ability of the founder to generate investment capital and use his image to sell his products.
My college car was a Saturn. They were very different than GM's other offerings - they shared almost no parts and were made in a standalone plant. Honestly it was the most reliable and economical car I've ever owned - even more so than my GX - as the only thing that broke in the 5 years I had it was the water pump, a coolant temp sensor, and a shift linkage bushing. But, GM stopped caring about Saturn being "different", let it turn into another division, and then axed up upon going bankrupt.
I've only got 2 acres and no trees. So a compact just doesn't make sense for me.
Rivian is in deep, deep doodoo. They are losing a ton of money for each vehicle they ship and they don't have anything which is mainstream. With the economy slowing down, the only things they have on the market start at over $70k, and the popularity of electric vehicles is declining. The Rivian van starts at about $80k, so only very rich fleet buyers are interested. The lower-priced R2 won't be released until next year, provided Rivian doesn't go bankrupt in the meantime.
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Rivian has announced a major deal with VW, which will bring in needed cash. VW finally figured out that they can't program infotainment and electric vehicle control systems to save their life, so they are buying it from Rivian. The new Scout (what a terrible desecration of a great brand, but that is a rant for another thread...) will have Rivian's tech underneath it.
Personally, I've never cared for the Rivian "face". It think the front-end is ugly. And I want #$!!% knobs and switches for HVAC and other commonly used controls.
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I however wouldn't consider the Grenadier as a completely new entity. How they match things together may be new but the engine, for example, is commonly considered one of the best production engines of the day. Rumor has it that it was even to go into the new 250 before the eco terrorists got their way.
SanJuanJ
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Rivian posted record profit in Q4 2024 and will be doing "relatively) well in 2025. The boycott on Tesla is certainly a contributing factor.... and so is the split tail gate!
Losing only $744M in a quarter instead of $1.1B is certainly an improvement! I hadn't followed their stock closely as I'm not really "in" to EVs....but it's lost 91% of it's value in the past 5 years. Ouch. Startup life is brutal.
Yeah. Not so much if you actually look more closely at the numbers. They received over $260M in carbon credits. They still lose money on every vehicle that they sell.
Ah, Carbon Credits. Looks like my forest might be worth $62 a year in credits. All I need to do is find a buyer and sign some paper pledging to not cut down the trees that I had no prior intention of cutting down....
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Yup, he nailed it.
I will skip my carbon credit rant…
Yep, "FJ Cruiser Part 2" is the perfect description.
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Bla bla bla. Why is everyone still wrapped up in the fact “it’s not a real LandCruiser”? We all know it’s a Prado. It’s not priced like “a real LandCruiser” so why do you expect it to be one. The rest of his points are generally all opinion based. Some of his facts are not accurate when comparing to the 4Runner. Whatever. I’m not going to loose sleep personally over a badge.
Size verse a “real LandCruiser” well that’s really up to the owner’s needs. For me a little smaller is better. I’ve got one kid and I’ll be an empty nester long before this thing wears out.
Verse the 4R. I’ve sat in the 6th Gen, my LC-250 is more comfortable for me. Has more head room. Puts me in a better seated position. 3rd row, don’t care. Why I still have my 80’s third row seats in the garage I have no idea. Came out right away never to go back in. Styling, for me the LC looks 10x better. Equipt them the same and price is basically the same. Certainly not enough to make it part of the decision when spending that much. Drivetrain, same, well you can get the 4R without the hybrid.
Don’t like the drivetrain? This is the only real debate in my mind. Coming from my turbo’ed 80-series the 250 definitely offers more power. I’ve never driven a 200, just ridden in friends. I’d imagine the big V8 offers some advantages. If this is a deal breaker buy a Lexus 550/600/700 or Sequoia.
Is FJC part 2 a better name, maybe. Would that have effected my buying decision, no. I’d still be in the same truck. If Toyota would have called this a Prado in NA have we had any of these discussions? I’m guessing no.
Size verse a “real LandCruiser” well that’s really up to the owner’s needs. For me a little smaller is better. I’ve got one kid and I’ll be an empty nester long before this thing wears out.
Verse the 4R. I’ve sat in the 6th Gen, my LC-250 is more comfortable for me. Has more head room. Puts me in a better seated position. 3rd row, don’t care. Why I still have my 80’s third row seats in the garage I have no idea. Came out right away never to go back in. Styling, for me the LC looks 10x better. Equipt them the same and price is basically the same. Certainly not enough to make it part of the decision when spending that much. Drivetrain, same, well you can get the 4R without the hybrid.
Don’t like the drivetrain? This is the only real debate in my mind. Coming from my turbo’ed 80-series the 250 definitely offers more power. I’ve never driven a 200, just ridden in friends. I’d imagine the big V8 offers some advantages. If this is a deal breaker buy a Lexus 550/600/700 or Sequoia.
Is FJC part 2 a better name, maybe. Would that have effected my buying decision, no. I’d still be in the same truck. If Toyota would have called this a Prado in NA have we had any of these discussions? I’m guessing no.
I personally find the "it's not a real Land Cruiser" rants a bit hard to comprehend. Then again, I'm just the owner of a lowly re-badged Prado too. Maybe it's something I'm not capable of understanding unless I upgrade to a 200
.10000% correct IMO.
FWIW - at least according to Toyota's specs the LC250 isn't smaller than the new LC. At least not on the inside. The LC300 interior is smaller than the LC250 in almost all configurations if not all configurations. A non USA model LC300 has (2461L) 86cf of cargo volume. A LX is 71cf. The LC250 is 86. GX - which is the most of any of the LC models we have in the USA is 90.5. 4R has a bit more volume than the LC250 in non-hybrid forms, but they're all pretty close to the 90cf mark.
I don't think the size differentiation holds up to reality anymore. They're all midsize SUVs that are nearly identical in size.
I agree on styling. I like the LC better than the 4R. It's subjective, but I like the tall greenhouse. I tend to like the packages and option sets better on the 4Runner. Mixed bag. Wish they had the 4Runner range and options in the LC250 body.
The 200 is fine to drive, but it's not something you'd be amazed by. I've driven at least half a dozen 200's and 570s at various times over the years. It's like a tundra with heavier steering and a sluggish throttle response. They're fine. Nothing bad - but the driving experience is the opposite of light and sporty. They do have great outward visibility and forward visibility, solid build, fine powertrain. I haven't driven an LC250, so I can't really compare. But I'd bet a dollar the electric steering is much lighter feel.
I'm not sure what the future holds for tuning on the hybrid version. I imagine tuning will be a challenge with the hybrid system. But it appears that the non-hybrid powertrains are already pretty easy to tune for a decent power bump. Looks like +75hp is pretty easy with no mods and pump gas.
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