Would AHC delete de-value (how much) my LX570? (1 Viewer)

[Heckraiser]

Hi Folks,

After spending some time behind the wheel of some Land Cruiser 200's, I'm seriously thinking about switching to conventional spring/shocks in my LX570. I know this would probably lower the value of my LX. Not sure how much, or if it might not devalue the rig at all in the eyes of the right buyer. My LX has 160k, is not pristine and is probably worth about $26,000ish.

I would love to sell it and buy a Land Cruiser, but the LCs are significantly more expensive, really hard to find in the lower price ranges, and MUST be purchased locally (my wife has a hypersensitive respiratory system and must confirm she can comfortably breathe before purchase). I'm also not willing to spend much more than $5,000 over the value of my LX, which will really limit the LC options.

Which is what has me focusing on swapping out to a conventional suspension. It wouldn't solve *all* my issues with the LX, but definitely the biggest issue. I know I wouldn't get KDSS, and I'm OK with that. Between OEM and aftermarket sway bar options, I'm confident I can find a setup that will work for me.

So take a guess, how much of a hit do you think I'd take if I deleted my AHC and replaced with a middle-tier lift kit (i.e. not OME nitrochargers, not Kings)?

 

[grinchy]

Do you anticipate selling your Lx? If so most buyers would rule out the truck immediately. Including Carmax and possibly mainline dealers. So you may find another enthusiast or. It, but what if they want kings or total chaos because they’re an enthusiast.

If you don’t anticipate selling, then value is its utility to you, and if you want a spring based suspension then you should do it. Your truck your use case.

Main challenge is the front sway, and there is some compelling stuff going around that a front sway is not necessary or even desirable on an IFS.

 

[tbisaacs]

I agree with @grinchy on this one. If I were looking a high-end (albeit, depreciated) lexus and half of the suspension goodies didn't work it would be a hard pass for me.

Not going to talk you out of it— but curious what you are chasing with the delete. There are definitely usage scenarios where I don't like AHC, but IMO replacing it with anything other than high-end Dobinsons, Kings, or Fox would be a huge downgrade.

 

[Heckraiser]

Best way to describe it is "feeling connected to the road." All functions and modes of my AHC work fine. But when I drive the LC, it just feels like I can tell what's happening underneath me and it has a more "nimble/agile" handling character if such a thing can be said about such a behemoth. I would probably lean towards Dobinsons IMS or similar for a replacement. Not top of the line (because I don't really need/want adjustability), but not a basic twin-tube gas shock either.

While I don't have plans to sell the LX (unless a good deal on a LC comes along), I also wouldn't rule it out as I tend to cycle vehicles a lot. At 8 years, my 80 was the longest I've owned any vehicle.

 

[bloc]

Note that an AHC deleted LX will not drive like a Landcruiser. KDSS allows for disconnecting a huge sway bar that the LX doesn’t have.. so it won’t corner as flat or articulate quite as well.

Though having traditional bars does help a lot with fitting larger tires.

 

[TeCKis300]

Best way to describe it is "feeling connected to the road." All functions and modes of my AHC work fine. But when I drive the LC, it just feels like I can tell what's happening underneath me and it has a more "nimble/agile" handling character if such a thing can be said about such a behemoth. I would probably lean towards Dobinsons IMS or similar for a replacement. Not top of the line (because I don't really need/want adjustability), but not a basic twin-tube gas shock either.

While I don't have plans to sell the LX (unless a good deal on a LC comes along), I also wouldn't rule it out as I tend to cycle vehicles a lot. At 8 years, my 80 was the longest I've owned any vehicle.

Agree with others that the car is what it means to you. Don't worry about its equity after. And perhaps for the right enthusiast buyer later on, newbies coming into this often take the same line of thought that AHC is a liability.

I think it's worth revisiting what you're actually looking for though. The 200-series is not a "connected to the road" type car. It's best as a compliant beast. When I hear connected to the road - I imagine unnecessary NVH. The undesirable type. My LX has several "knobs" added where it can be a slinky Cadillac that's unperturbed by most anything. When I tighten it up to tow and haul 2200lbs payload with 45PSI tires, 18psi airbags, and AHC damper on sport, it then rides stiff like an HD truck unladen. That's how I imagine many LCs with heavy springs and 40+ psi LTs to feel.

I've mentioned this before, the LC may feel sportier because it's carrying 300-500lbs less weight stock. That won't happen by ripping out AHC. To @blocs point, AHC is KDSS on steroids, but by ripping it out, you'll neither have the benefit of KDSS like cross linking function for taught on-road handling and slinky off-road.

Putting all this out there in hopes that you'll really narrow down what you're looking for, rather than another giant compromise and not achieving your goals.

 

[smeagol]

Not to derail the thread, but I've been having some similar thoughts, and I can't figure if my AHC needs attention or I really crave a different suspension. Previous vehicles were 4th and 5th gen 4Runners, both with small lifts and budget level components (OME/Bilstein). The 5th gen had KDSS. Both felt more planted with less sway and body float. I've only driven one other 200 series and it was a similar experience, but it was an LC at stock ride height

I'm definitely due for an AHC flush, and was going to do that before making any rash decisions (suspension swap or moving to a different vehicle). Also wondering if there's an easy way to tell if the globes need replacement, given that my LX is almost 10 years old (2014 MY). Need to do some research on this topic, just been too distracted.

I wish I could go on some test rides with some of the modified LC's and LX's from this forum.

Regarding your main question: I believe it would lose some value overall; there are many who seek the LX models for the AHC suspension, if it is no longer present and functional on your vehicle, you've lost some potential buyers. With that said, I think if the vehicle was in well maintained and in good condition and the new suspension works well, you'd still have interested buyers.

 

[turbo8]

Delete it

 

[paulunm]

Globes, Globes, Globes. Made a tremendous difference in ride and handling for me.

I got my LX when it was less than 10 years old and I'm pretty sure the globes were toast then (8 years old maybe?). Ride had only gotten worse since then. I really hated the way it rode, now I LOVE it.

Worth a shot at ~$700 in parts/fluid IMO.

 

[NKP Garage]

Just do what makes you happy and how you plan to enjoy the truck. Will it devalue it? Yes, it will. But do what you want to make it yours. Personally, I love AHC.

 

[xeuxaz]

How do you know when globes need replacement? My dads 17 LX is squishy, but not in a bad way. It’s very obvious to me after switching directly out of my LC. I’m wondering if he should look at replacing them.

 

[TeCKis300]

How do you know when globes need replacement? My dads 17 LX is squishy, but not in a bad way. It’s very obvious to me after switching directly out of my LC. I’m wondering if he should look at replacing them.

I wouldn't presume the system is worn or needs anything other than normal flushes. Failure mode of the globes doesn't make for a squishy ride, rather it becomes harsh and uncontrolled as the globes bottom out and the ride becomes brittle and jarring. These systems have been know to easily go 150k to 250k+. LXs that are built and carry more weight can create an earlier need to replace the globes as it compresses the air bladder more greatly exacerbating lost volume from regular wear.

 

[TomEf]

Failure mode of the globes doesn't make for a squishy ride, rather it becomes harsh and uncontrolled as the globes bottom out and the ride becomes brittle and jarring.

Absolutely. Just changed my globes after 12 years and 160,000mi and it’s a much, much nicer drive. For me it was sort of a boiling frog situation where it was degrading slowly enough that I didn’t think much of it until it was BAD.

 

[Madtiger]

“The 200-series is not a "connected to the road" type car. It's best as a compliant beast.”

Not so long ago, @TeCKis300 said that LX has Porsche-like handling…like it’s on rails he would repeatedly type! Interesting what he says now. Reality struck him?

“AHC is KDSS on steroids”

No, it is not. And as can be seen in the new generation of Toyota/Lexus off-road capable vehicles, AHC is being phased out. It is more for on-road thing (which it is not good at) and to let children and grandma in/out. Aka an “American thing.” Not for off-road. KDSS is what everyone wants…and is truly best of both worlds. KDSS is the current and future for Toyota top SUVs.

“These systems have been know to easily go 150k to 250k+.”

Not true. Not based on most LX owners here whose system needs parts replacement every 100-150k. You will find some outliers here or there, but just search. Plenty of issues with AHC way before 150k miles. And AHC is a complex expensive mess when it comes to diagnosing issues.

 

[burtlively]

I was considering the same, but decided to refresh existing suspension. In order to replace the AHC with anything comparable would cost much more (Kings, etc). I replaced springs, struts, and globes (should’ve gone on and replaced everything while I was in there but didn’t). I also installed the Westcott kit. Much happier with the ride quality across the board.

 

[AZLX570]

I wouldn't presume the system is worn or needs anything other than normal flushes. Failure mode of the globes doesn't make for a squishy ride, rather it becomes harsh and uncontrolled as the globes bottom out and the ride becomes brittle and jarring. These systems have been know to easily go 150k to 250k+. LXs that are built and carry more weight can create an earlier need to replace the globes as it compresses the air bladder more greatly exacerbating lost volume from regular wear.

Would really like some more info on this/references if possible as I'm at ~170K, original system. However, it's always been dealer maintained/flushed on time, all stock rig.

It's almost like I need to ride in another LX to see for myself. In no way is my ride harsh/uncontrolled but am I missing out on some pillow soft ride? I think it rides really well as-is with noticeable differences between Sport/Comfort. Not sure...

 

[NKP Garage]

Would really like some more info on this/references if possible as I'm at ~170K, original system. However, it's always been dealer maintained/flushed on time, all stock rig.

It's almost like I need to ride in another LX to see for myself. In no way is my ride harsh/uncontrolled but am I missing out on some pillow soft ride? I think it rides really well as-is with noticeable differences between Sport/Comfort. Not sure...

I see you're in DFW, if you end up in the Round Rock area for some reason feel free to drop me a note and swing by to ride in mine for comparison.

 

[paulunm]

I realized something was quite wrong when I failed what I call the "washboard test."

Even in comfort mode, I couldn't exceed much more than 10-15 mph on a washboard surface. The damping couldn't keep up- is how I would describe it. Rear end struts seemed VERY stiff- jarring the whole vehicle.

I've always thought the damping wasn't quite even at all 4 corners, now post globe replacement it is very balanced/even.

None of my globes had ruptured, but I think they fail slowly. I have another car with an assisted clutch- which is assisted by an accumulator/globe. These go bad all the time, and slowly- before total failure. So my suspicion as a non expert is that the accumulator membrane breaks down over time. My concern here is once the membrane fails, you get a bunch of debris in the high pressure system- ala Mercedes ABC failure- which clogs up all kinds of stuff in the system. so better to replace proactively at 100k or 10 years.

My $0.02.

 

[TomEf]

Not so long ago, @TeCKis300 said that LX has Porsche-like handling…like it’s on rails he would repeatedly type! Interesting what he says now. Reality struck him?

“AHC is KDSS on steroids”

No, it is not. And as can be seen in the new generation of Toyota/Lexus off-road capable vehicles, AHC is being phased out. It is more for on-road thing (which it is not good at) and to let children and grandma in/out. Aka an “American thing.” Not for off-road. KDSS is what everyone wants…and is truly best of both worlds. KDSS is the current and future for Toyota top SUVs.

“These systems have been know to easily go 150k to 250k+.”

Not true. Not based on most LX owners here whose system needs parts replacement every 100-150k. You will find some outliers here or there, but just search. Plenty of issues with AHC way before 150k miles. And AHC is a complex expensive mess when it comes to diagnosing issues.

Calling it Porsche-like seems like a stretch to me, but it’s pretty damn good for an off-road capable body on frame SUV. Not sure what else in class compares, other than an LC200 which is kinda splitting hairs. AHC can do all of the side to side and front to back adjustments that KDSS can, but KDSS can’t give you a 2” lift off road while still dropping 1” at highway speed. I’ll be honest, it’s the best of both the lifted and lowered worlds. If changing the fluid every 80k-ish for $70 and changing the globes every 160k-ish for $600 is the cost, then I bet AHC is money ahead compared to buying either OEM or aftermarket medium/heavy load springs/shocks and/or airbags and rides better under pretty much every applicable situation to boot. It’s really not a complex or expensive system, much less a mess. There are plenty of DIY walkthroughs that break it down barney style how to maintain your AHC system.

Would really like some more info on this/references if possible as I'm at ~170K, original system. However, it's always been dealer maintained/flushed on time, all stock rig.

It's almost like I need to ride in another LX to see for myself. In no way is my ride harsh/uncontrolled but am I missing out on some pillow soft ride? I think it rides really well as-is with noticeable differences between Sport/Comfort. Not sure...

You’re probably not missing out on a “pillow soft ride,” but I’d bet some fresh globes would feel smoother over nasty manhole covers and be more composed over unusual highway transitions. I could definitely feel some issues at 150k but I also wheel the bajeezus out of my LX for what it is.

I realized something was quite wrong when I failed what I call the "washboard test."

Even in comfort mode, I couldn't exceed much more than 10-15 mph on a washboard surface. The damping couldn't keep up- is how I would describe it. Rear end struts seemed VERY stiff- jarring the whole vehicle.

I've always thought the damping wasn't quite even at all 4 corners, now post globe replacement it is very balanced/even.

None of my globes had ruptured, but I think they fail slowly. I have another car with an assisted clutch- which is assisted by an accumulator/globe. These go bad all the time, and slowly- before total failure. So my suspicion as a non expert is that the accumulator membrane breaks down over time. My concern here is once the membrane fails, you get a bunch of debris in the high pressure system- ala Mercedes ABC failure- which clogs up all kinds of stuff in the system. so better to replace proactively at 100k or 10 years.

My $0.02.

Agreed, I think they degrade slowly. I bet they eventually hit a point where they go from pretty weak to absolutely sucking, but dancing over washboard is a solid sign they’re due for replacement soon if you do any sort of wheeling or even fireroad driving. Better to do it soon than to be trying to flush out debris. Curious what uses an accumulator as a clutch assist - I know BMW clutch delay valves but haven’t heard of a hydraulic clutch assist.

 

[Madtiger]

Calling it Porsche-like seems like a stretch to me, but it’s pretty damn good for an off-road capable body on frame SUV. Not sure what else in class compares, other than an LC200 which is kinda splitting hairs. AHC can do all of the side to side and front to back adjustments that KDSS can, but KDSS can’t give you a 2” lift off road while still dropping 1” at highway speed. I’ll be honest, it’s the best of both the lifted and lowered worlds. If changing the fluid every 80k-ish for $70 and changing the globes every 160k-ish for $600 is the cost, then I bet AHC is money ahead compared to buying either OEM or aftermarket medium/heavy load springs/shocks and/or airbags and rides better under pretty much every applicable situation to boot. It’s really not a complex or expensive system, much less a mess. There are plenty of DIY walkthroughs that break it down barney style how to maintain your AHC system.

I will refer you to my old post #34:

New Shocks on 2013 LX?

Even tho it is hydraulic, doesn’t AHC need air to do its thing? Isn’t there a air filter somewhere in the system? I could swear that i read someone here that fluid can get contaminated over time due to dirt getting into the system? air is bad. there is a particulate filter at the fill...

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