What's in the 80 for Rubicon

[cruiserdan]

My point is; David, throw in that set of tie rod ends without guilt. (I’ve seen three 80s break them over my last five trips.) The extra five pounds won’t kill you and may save you three extra days of frustration trying to get your rig home.

I have been vindicated................

 

[ginericLC]

Look at who he's wheeling with though. He's wheeling with other 80s. There is no reason to go nuts packing everyone to the hilt in a group of like vehicles. Those couple extra hundred pounds distributed in the wrong place could make all the difference in the world on the success of running that trail. It could mean a flop. The difference between the Rubicon and having parts availability by getting out and being in Central or South America by yourself is definitely different. I'll give you that the Rubicon is a hard trail and it is long. But it is not remote. For me the remoteness of an area is what requires extra packing of supplies and tools and especially if you are alone.

And I never said not to pack parts. My objection was to packing tools that aren't necessary for your rig. Why carry a 15mm and 18mm if you don't have any of them on your rig.

You guys crack me up with all of this talk about keeping an 80 series wagon light on the Rubicon trail.

With a few exceptions I think David has packed appropriately for the ‘Con. This may be overkill for those of you who wheel back East on trails that have a base camp or are within easy reach of a town that may carry spare parts. But not overkill for the Rubicon.

The Rubicon is a different trail and requires a different set of rules.

The Rubicon is remote and relentless. Nearly everyone breaks something. It may be cosmetic or it may be major, but I’ve rarely made it through clean. Maintenance has little to do with it. The trail will bring out any weak link in your set up. You have to be prepared. There is no cell phone service. The nearest town with auto parts from the Loon Lake entrance is Placerville which is an hour and a half drive. Chances of finding 80 specific parts there are slim and most likely a trip to Sacramento would be required. That is 2 ½ hours away.
Same story on the Tahoe exit of the trail. The nearest parts house is a small Napa in Tahoe City which rarely keeps any 80 specific parts. A 60 mile trip to Reno would be required for anything other than generic supplies. These times and distances are after you make it off the trail. Depending on where you break down, getting off the trail could take a few hours to half a day as long as your rescue vehicle doesn’t become disabled too.
Most breakdowns that require a parts run usually means spending at least an extra day on the trail and requires some poor soul to cut his trip short to go drive 150+ miles to help search for your spares. If you need something such as an axleshaft or custom driveshaft, you are out of luck. You would need to order them or find someone local who could rescue you. In David’s case where he is coming from out of state, these are not viable options.
The consequences of not being prepared are significant enough to warrant adding an extra hundred pounds of parts or tools. On an 80 series especially it won’t make much difference. When a trail-ready 80 is already approaching 7000 lbs it doesn’t make a significant difference whether you are at 6800 lbs or an even 7000. That extra hundred pounds or two will not determine whether you break down or not. The relentless nature of the trail will.
My point is; David, throw in that set of tie rod ends without guilt. (I’ve seen three 80s break them over my last five trips.) The extra five pounds won’t kill you and may save you three extra days of frustration trying to get your rig home.

 

[Shipwreck]

Look at who he's wheeling with though. He's wheeling with other 80s. There is no reason to go nuts packing everyone to the hilt in a group of like vehicles. Those couple extra hundred pounds distributed in the wrong place could make all the difference in the world on the success of running that trail. It could mean a flop. The difference between the Rubicon and having parts availability by getting out and being in Central or South America by yourself is definitely different. I'll give you that the Rubicon is a hard trail and it is long. But it is not remote. For me the remoteness of an area is what requires extra packing of supplies and tools and especially if you are alone.

And I never said not to pack parts. My objection was to packing tools that aren't necessary for your rig. Why carry a 15mm and 18mm if you don't have any of them on your rig.

David is not wheeling with any other 80s. He is attending the Marlin Roundup this weekend and is the only 80 registered.

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32954.0

I agree that if you are attending a club run with like vehicles you should spread the spares around. But this is not the case. The mini truck and Tacoma crowd may have some parts that cross over to David's needs, but I wouldn't count on it. I also believe that you should bring your own set of tools that are appropriate for your rig. If David has modifications that require non standard tools then he should bring them. He knows better than any of us what he needs to make an anticipated repair.
The general trend of responses in this thread indicated that carrying extra spare parts and tools will increase your likelyhood of breaking and that increase in risk outweighs the potential risk of not having said spares. For lightweight rigs on local trails that may be the case but in a 6 - 7000 lb cruiser wagon traversing the Rubicon I don't think that holds water. You will not significantly reduce the weight of an 80 by leaving a few desired tools or spares at home.
With a few exceptions, I still think David has packed appropriately for his trip.

 

[96r50]

With a few exceptions, I still think David has packed appropriately for his trip.

Not antagonizing, just curious: What would you add/delete from the list? This thread is turning into a great resource (at least for me) of what to pack and what to leave at home.

 

[ginericLC]

David is not wheeling with any other 80s. He is attending the Marlin Roundup this weekend and is the only 80 registered.

I thought he was going with the Nor Cal guys. So that is my mistake.

I still think that he's overkill in the tool department. And why two manuals, etc... If you have the FSM that is good enough in my opinion.

The thing I noticed about my rig when I went to Rubithon this past June is my weight was not evenly distributed and that had a huge effect on handling compared to what I was accustom to. Weight plays a huge role in breakage and even more so carrying it correctly is even more important. I can't for sure say when you've reached the breakage threshold for weight on an 80. I've never broke anything that could be attributed to carrying too much weight. I did see some rigs suffer more so than me and sustain a lot of body damage due to excessive weight causing stability problems.

All of my stuff has been like bent driveshafts, or a broke sway bar mount, I've never had what I would consider a weight related break. Things like broken sector shafts and axle shafts are breaks that I think relate directly to how much weight is on the rig.

 

[FirstToy]

Things like broken sector shafts and axle shafts are breaks that I think relate directly to how much weight is on the rig.

Dood, there has only been 1 broken sector shaft in Norcal and that's Alvaro. He travels w/ a lot of stuff but he's been thru the Rubicon in his 80 like 10 times and Dusy 2x... and Moab... and... and... and...
I seriously doubt weight had anything to do with it. It's more like a well used and enjoyed 80. Stuff is gonna break when you do it a dozen times.

Alvaro is one squared away and prepared wheeler- all his equipment has saved him much more than hurt, I'm sure of that. and that's why I think David's list is a good one for Rubicon.

I want to build up my kit to be as fully covered. I am in the "light" catagory w/ a couple tool boxes but for Rubicon, Dusy... I would bring all that stuff David has or make sure my friends had my back for the stuff I am missing.

You have to go prepared. You can't rely on others all the time unless you plan ahead and spread the spares out among trucks. An extra book or few wrenches isn't going to kill him. JMHO

 

[tominator]

SoCal.. Thats soo cool, but how about my wife, 4 kids and the dog I could never hang. I bow down.

 

[ginericLC]

Dood, there has only been 1 broken sector shaft in Norcal and that's Alvaro. He travels w/ a lot of stuff but he's been thru the Rubicon in his 80 like 10 times and Dusy 2x... and Moab... and... and... and...
I seriously doubt weight had anything to do with it. It's more like a well used and enjoyed 80. Stuff is gonna break when you do it a dozen times.

I know of 3 broken sector shafts. I know of a lot more that have been twisted. Just in rural Idaho I can think of at least 3 that have been twisted hard enough that folks replaced them. I do believe weight plays a role in it. Alvaro does wheel hard but he also carries a lot of weight too. He's also built moderately by today's standards. He definitely isn't at an extreme. That is why I suggest weight plays a role. I don't think you can ever be 100% on a cause of break because there are too many variables. Which straw broke the camels back? Christo broke a sector shaft and he even said that he wasn't sure what caused it because the truck had previously been in an accident. I like his analysis of his situation. He isn't causing widespread panic over something that is still very unusual.

David can carry whatever he wants. He's a big boy. I personally think he is carrying too much and some of the wrong stuff. For example, in his bolt box I see a lot of SAE bolts. I'm not sure what the purpose of those is, maybe he has a genuine need for them for some aftermarket item. I'm more selective about what I bring. Just because I don't carry everything he does not mean I'm going in unprepared. We've obviously analyzed the risks differently. I think that too much weight can be a big thing on the trail and potentially cause more damage. That is my opinion. It is obvious that some folks think I'm wrong. That is OK, analyze your risks and make your own decisions and then live with the consequences.

I certainly wouldn't be upset with someone I was traveling with if they broke something and neither of us had the part and it caused us delay. I wouldn't be upset if they broke something and needed to borrow a part either. I would be upset with myself if I broke something and didn't have the part and it was something I should have known about.

Some things like not carrying water are just insane. Not having an extra fuel pump along is forgivable given the cost and potential for need.

Another thing is look at the risks. Are you going to cause delays or inconveniences or are you going to die? Obviously someone on a solo expedition into the most rural parts of the world should be more prepared than someone heading down a 14 mile rock crawling trail. At least that is my opinion.

 

[TiredIronGRB]

Wheel smart, know your rigs limits, use your winch and you shouldn't need to take all that crap. I wheel every week and hit some pretty rough stuff and I've yet to break a thing. I witness breakage almost every trip and it's usually because of driver error. I wheel with a guy that carries enough spares to completely rebuild most of the drivetrain, he breaks everytime we hit the train and I truely believe it's because of all the weight he carries.

 

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Back from the Con!

Got out from the Con last night and am in Marin County now. WHAT A TRIP! Photos will be posted soon after I sort through the 700 I took.

Great to see how this thread has gone. A lot of good input. Now that I'm back, I'll give a quick rundown just FWIW.

Real quickly, as pointed out earlier I did load up pretty good and I wouldn't load that way for local trips in WA to Elba, Retiter or Evans Creek. Naches, probably, but I'd leave some at the base camp. As pointed out here, I was the only registered 80 (although Miklos was there as it turns out in his ultra-stickered 80) so I knew I had so carry items that all the 4Runner and mini pickup guys wouldn't have.

Remoteness as also was mentioned was part of that. Remember when Alvaro did that great thread about breaking his steering box and how he had to send all the way out to Sacramento to get one? That's the kind of thing that makes the Rubicon worthy of the extra weight in tools and parts.

Let me just say (with a HUGE grin on my face) how amazing the truck perfromed. I did every section except Little Sluice, took no bypasses except at Soup Bowl, and the truck just crawled up everything! In some ways (just some mind you) the weight was helpful to put traction on the rock. You know those series of steep slopes right after Buck Island? The average mini trucks were sliding all over the rock as they went up. The 80? Went right up; even that third ascent with those two gnarly double ledges at the left-most side. Jason from Locktup told me later when I started that side that he was shaking his head saying no way, then yelling when we summitted.

Big Sluice turned out to be the "hardest", meaning it took a really deft touch to get through all those drop/turns unscathed. It was here we took our first small scrape, not even a big one. Gotta put out props to Jason's cousin for the great spotting and saving us more damage!

I am still grining from ear to ear at how awesome the 80 performed! It crawled up and over everything I put in front of it, and down some too! Oh yeah, you know on Cadillac when the hill climb starts in earnest at that right turn followed by the two huge offset boulders (the fallen tree root ball is on the right). How cool was it to put the passenger tire up on that first boulder and the just flex massively and crawl up it all! Loved it!

I will post some photos later tonight in a differet thread so this thread and "what I packed" them isn't hijacked further. Cheers all!

Dave

PS Everyone on the trail was loving that there was an 80 doing it surrounded by all the mini trucks. Got lots of positive comments.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Cool Dave! Glad it went well and you didn't need any of your parts.

 

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Thanks Alvin and Shipwreck, and all!

Gineric, the only SAE bolts are the leftovers from when I had the Warn winch out and replaced the mount bolts with higher grade items. All my sockets and wrenches are metric and literally 99.999% of the spare nuts and bolts. By the way a 16mm fits the Warn mount bolts.

One thing I forgot to mention was, I did remove the front and rear anti-sway bars. (When removing the front 14mm axle mounts don't forget to retrieve the bushing sleeves.) They would have been crushed if I'd kept them on. Freeway, it was a little sketchy but not horrible--but once back to the Placerville KOA back they went on ASAP. On trail, the truck leaned as expected--kinda hairy sometimes. Closest to roll we got was the section before the Soupbowl, I was on the CB, lost focus (CB the cell phone of the offroad world!) and went high right and WHOOOAAA nelly almost put her over! Had to gas and turn into the roll fast and got out of it. Luckily no rocks in front of me right there.

Working on photos!

 

[concretejungle]

....... Had to gas and turn into the roll fast and got out of it. Luckily no rocks in front of me right there.

Working on photos!

glad you had a great trip and didn't need the parts; also look forward to seeing the pictures.

Above statement is key!! A lot of folks would have frozen up and over they go. Good to see you keep your head and gas out of it.

 

[landtank]

congrats on a great trip.

 

[pismojim]

Dave, great summary of the trip. Wheeling the Rubicon in a heavy wagon is the best! You are right about the extra traction with the heavy wagon. Those little rigs, minis and 40s, like to watch the heavy beast on the trail but if you get stuck and need a strap or tow out they'll run for the hills. At that point, another wagon will be your friend.

So tell us which tools and spares got used or loaned?

What did you wish you had?

I always take a ton of stuff even though I try to pack light. Some items not mentioned include:

Splitting Maul (sledge hammer) - great for going caveman on whatever needs a beating. It gets used every trip.

Jack Stand (or two) - Very popular for added safety during axle work. Again It gets used every trip.

The other, which I think was mentioned, is electrical test and repair goodies. Multi-meter, wire, connectors, fuses, bulbs, tape and automotive relays (very popular). At least this stuff is light and compact.

Finally, this might be more of a mod than a spare or tool but I really like having "Speedbleeders." Makes one man brake bleeding easy. Oh yeah, the spare brake fluid and a piece of clear tubing for the bleeder are always popular too.

 

[cardinal33]

Miklos K also registered and attended the roundup. There were two 80 series at the roundup. Still a low turnout for a great event by the 80s crowd considering how many I counted on the Rubithon run. We had a spare birfield, hoses, cap and rotor, a spill kit, basic front end tools and some extra gear lube, a big hammer and lots of patience. Our 80 did not have a slider so at the Springs we had to peel 3 out of 4 doors open with a 5 pound mallet and a giant flathead screwdriver. Our 80 was equipped with 33 inch tiers and an OME lift. No lockers. Had to take a few lines more than once but never took a tug, rather we pulled a few blown buggies. Cheers. As far as what is a good idea to take, there is only one limit which is cargo room.

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32954.0

here is the shutterfly for our photos.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0AYsWbRu1ZtmL2o

 

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Great to have you there Miklos--your truck, loved it! Took some hits for sure!

 

[Hanna Quality]

Dave, great summary of the trip. Wheeling the Rubicon in a heavy wagon is the best! You are right about the extra traction with the heavy wagon. Those little rigs, minis and 40s, like to watch the heavy beast on the trail but if you get stuck and need a strap or tow out they'll run for the hills. At that point, another wagon will be your friend.

So tell us which tools and spares got used or loaned?

What did you wish you had?

I always take a ton of stuff even though I try to pack light. Some items not mentioned include:

Splitting Maul (sledge hammer) - great for going caveman on whatever needs a beating. It gets used every trip.

Jack Stand (or two) - Very popular for added safety during axle work. Again It gets used every trip.

The other, which I think was mentioned, is electrical test and repair goodies. Multi-meter, wire, connectors, fuses, bulbs, tape and automotive relays (very popular). At least this stuff is light and compact.

Finally, this might be more of a mod than a spare or tool but I really like having "Speedbleeders." Makes one man brake bleeding easy. Oh yeah, the spare brake fluid and a piece of clear tubing for the bleeder are always popular too.

I dont worry about tools, just go with Jim...