Personally I don’t like the idea of 0W 20 oil I think it’s a fuel mileage thing but who am I to argue with the Toyota engineers as an old guy I want 5W 30 or 5W 40 or 0W 40 and if you listen to the Internet guys on Bobistheoilguy.com they don’t seem to like 0W 20. What I’m trying to say is I agree with your instincts but I don’t know if you want to take that risk with that expensive a vehicle
What motor oil type and weight do you use? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ConcreteCruiser
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Word. Just ordered yesterday too, 3rd oil change using that eBay method.
Was finally time for an oil change at my dealer. Regular 5w20 there were using used to be $120cad (inc a wash and detail) and I got them to put in 0w20 synthetic this time and it was $150cad (inc wash and detail). Thoughts?
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
I'm going to bring this thread back up because... I like making people question their choices in life. No not really, honestly I write a lot of things. Then re read them and delete them, because I get tired of saying the same things over and over. But I tried to write this one as not a what you should do, but what i'm doing.
If you look in the Toyota Owners manual under oil requirements it says (at least in a 2011):
"The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."
High speeds, as in ground speed, doesn't mean anything to the engine, it's high RPMs. And extreme load means, high engine load.
So I have a 200 with a lift, heavy/high drag off road tires, a high clearance front bumper to let a ton of aerodynamic drag happen, then 4.88 gears, so I wanted to start thinking about this.
Then I looked at how I used me 200. For me personally, it is not a daily, cold starts are limited, it tackles highway speeds with heavy load, and low speed off roading. Then it lives in the south, with limited winter driving.
I have opened this motor up twice now, and I recently opened up my brothers 2017 Tacoma with 50k miles on it, that also uses Toyota 0w-20. Both are clean, very clean. TGMO 0w-20 is a very good oil, and the very high moly it has over it's Mobil 1 counterpart, in my opinion, very nice for a timing chain. But... I'm not really impressed with the wear I see on the cams. Compare that to my Toyota 4.0L that ran 0w-30 for 150k and is still going strong, I'm questioning 20 weight for heavily modified, heavy stressed motors. But again, in a normal use, stock 200, I'd rock TGMO for 500,000k miles.
For a normal 200, even on with a small lift and some all terrains... 0w-20. For someone that daily drives, so cold starts are the real wear factor... 0w-20. For this situation I'm in, combined with Toyota even saying that basically 20 weight is best for most, but not all users, I'm exploring alternatives.
Amsoil SS 0w-30 is in the motor right now with 1,500 miles on it, comparing Amsoil SS 0w-20 with only 3,000 miles, oil pressure: same, temperature: same (remember our 5.7 has a oil cooler). Cam tick is much quieter, and that's the only thing I have detected that's different for now. Give me another 100k of miles, and we will see.
To bring back that other countries without CAFE are recommending 30 weight oils, with some Lexus engine that @bjowett mentioned that has the same clearances as our engine that uses 30 weight. I'm starting to really think about this.
But again, cold starts are where the real wear occurs for normal users. Also, the "0" in 0w-20, 0w-30, and 0w-40 are absolutely not even close to the same Kinematic viscosity at @40c (i.e. how to flows when cold starting). Even more fun of an example, Amsoil SS 0w-30 is thicker at 40c than Pennzoil Platinum HM 5w-30.
So don't just look at the label and think you can compare it to anything. TGMO 0w-20, solid option, will never deny it. But if there's one thing I know about oil, there is no "best oil."
If you look in the Toyota Owners manual under oil requirements it says (at least in a 2011):
"The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."
High speeds, as in ground speed, doesn't mean anything to the engine, it's high RPMs. And extreme load means, high engine load.
So I have a 200 with a lift, heavy/high drag off road tires, a high clearance front bumper to let a ton of aerodynamic drag happen, then 4.88 gears, so I wanted to start thinking about this.
Then I looked at how I used me 200. For me personally, it is not a daily, cold starts are limited, it tackles highway speeds with heavy load, and low speed off roading. Then it lives in the south, with limited winter driving.
I have opened this motor up twice now, and I recently opened up my brothers 2017 Tacoma with 50k miles on it, that also uses Toyota 0w-20. Both are clean, very clean. TGMO 0w-20 is a very good oil, and the very high moly it has over it's Mobil 1 counterpart, in my opinion, very nice for a timing chain. But... I'm not really impressed with the wear I see on the cams. Compare that to my Toyota 4.0L that ran 0w-30 for 150k and is still going strong, I'm questioning 20 weight for heavily modified, heavy stressed motors. But again, in a normal use, stock 200, I'd rock TGMO for 500,000k miles.
For a normal 200, even on with a small lift and some all terrains... 0w-20. For someone that daily drives, so cold starts are the real wear factor... 0w-20. For this situation I'm in, combined with Toyota even saying that basically 20 weight is best for most, but not all users, I'm exploring alternatives.
Amsoil SS 0w-30 is in the motor right now with 1,500 miles on it, comparing Amsoil SS 0w-20 with only 3,000 miles, oil pressure: same, temperature: same (remember our 5.7 has a oil cooler). Cam tick is much quieter, and that's the only thing I have detected that's different for now. Give me another 100k of miles, and we will see.
To bring back that other countries without CAFE are recommending 30 weight oils, with some Lexus engine that @bjowett mentioned that has the same clearances as our engine that uses 30 weight. I'm starting to really think about this.
But again, cold starts are where the real wear occurs for normal users. Also, the "0" in 0w-20, 0w-30, and 0w-40 are absolutely not even close to the same Kinematic viscosity at @40c (i.e. how to flows when cold starting). Even more fun of an example, Amsoil SS 0w-30 is thicker at 40c than Pennzoil Platinum HM 5w-30.
So don't just look at the label and think you can compare it to anything. TGMO 0w-20, solid option, will never deny it. But if there's one thing I know about oil, there is no "best oil."
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gaijin
GOLD Star
Good topic - deserves some serious thought.
Here is what I found back in 2013 for what Toyota was recommending for ROW (Rest Of World) Series 200 Land Cruisers with the 3URFE 5.7 litre gasoline engine:
0W-20 is still recommended, and the caveats: "An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions" and for use at extremely low temperatures "...SAE 5W-30 or lower viscosity is recommended" are included as you stated.
If anyone in ROW has a more recent oil recommendation chart, maybe they could post it up.
HTH
I've been re-thinking about this too. About 20K of the 25K miles on my truck are towing something, so the 5.7L is doing extra laps most of the time. Up to now, it's seen only TGMO, but not sure about the viscosity. Since the oil changes to this point have been "free" at the dealer, they use whatever they want. The first time I asked, the service writer said: "It's just whatever is in the big tank out back." Not real confidence-inspiring. Now that the changes are on my dime, I will probably decide to go with M1 0W-30. The info in the '17 owner's manual is a simplified version of what's posted above, but has the same language about a higher viscosity being better suited for extreme load conditions.
The Blackstone analysis I had done on my last oil change indicated I could go 9k miles on oil changes and showed no abnormal wear metals, etc. It had 7500miles on it with zero make up oil. Rig is a 2008 with 70k miles on it. This change included a road trip to Moab and some rock crawling activity while there, along with towing a light utility trailer (1000lbs or so) a few hundred miles and a lot of trips around town and to work. The oil used was Toyota 0W-20 and a toyota oil filter.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
Goes with my “no oil is best” line. You’re seeing good results, great. One thing I'm still curious about is TGMO 0w-20 is a easter, which I think helps a bit with seal swelling. Which is why I'm going to play with that oil again this winter.
For what its worth, Blackstone told me that everything good also. But, the cams and cylinders tell me otherwise. Have you disassembled your motor? I’m not trying to be smart ass. Far from it, just seeing how far we are going with our own opinions.
Also, do you have an aftermarket front bumper and/or lower diff gears?
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Bottom line is you can’t go wrong in America. As a mechanical engineer I’ve thought about the same thing. Then I google all these high mileage 5.7 Tundras that are used under far more strenuous circumstances than our 200. Many of them have over 250k and still get great Blackstone results using 0-20W TGMO with no differences to vehicles using 30w oils.
The scientific data of oil analysis and complete lack of issues in high mileage Tundras prove that 0-20w oil is completely fine in the 5.7.
The scientific data of oil analysis and complete lack of issues in high mileage Tundras prove that 0-20w oil is completely fine in the 5.7.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
Well said, I couldn't agree more. Which is why 0w-16 is finally here in the states (been in Japan for 20 years) and Toyota is already working for some time on 0w-8. Fascinating times in the life of chemical engineers.
I do like to go deeper though, I think it's fun. But hell, my wife's college car was a 200 camry that was very, very abused and lasted to 280k. The motor never failed, it leaked like crazy, but never failed. In the end, the ECU fried. So 250K is the new 100k. But i'm thinking of half million.
Or maybe I just want to be different... I wonder what they use for the gas engine in Australia?
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Trust me, I like going deeper as well. It's my technical background and longing for more white paper documentation from Toyota on the engineering that goes into these things....which unfortunately they will never share.
0W-20 used to keep me up at night, I read and re-read this thread, did some more research, and kept reading UOA's that encouraged longer OCI's, not shorter.
The 200 is my wife's car and sees almost 275 miles a week of mostly city driving. Sometimes 5-8 starts in a single day (multiple shorter trips). I'm glad I have the cold start protection in Alaska for those conditions and use.
Haven't disassembled the engine and have no intention of doing so unless something breaks. I have no aftermarket bumper nor lower diff gears. Am running a small lift with sliders. My experience presented as a data point for the thread.
If one wanted a better comparison of wear vs motor oil type, then two identical rigs, driven identically, each with a different oil would be closer to reality, but still not statistically significant. For that a fleet of vehicles, driven the same way with two different oils, etc would be needed.
Is there anything wrong with using the Toyota filter .. Toyota 04152-YZZA4
And the Mobil-1 0w-20 Oil that has the Toyota rating?
If this was a desert race or chase truck I would be using the TRD filter, but it's not. From my past experience from working at a liquid packaging company I would be really surprised if the mobile-1 is not the same oil in the Toyota bottles. It was amazing how many different companies used that same train car of oil.
And the Mobil-1 0w-20 Oil that has the Toyota rating?
If this was a desert race or chase truck I would be using the TRD filter, but it's not. From my past experience from working at a liquid packaging company I would be really surprised if the mobile-1 is not the same oil in the Toyota bottles. It was amazing how many different companies used that same train car of oil.
Which Oil Filter Would You Rather Use?(TRD/OEM)
Here are the two oil filters I have used to date in my 2013 LC200: The one on the left is the Toyota OEM filter and the one on the right is the Toyota TRD Performance oil filter. Both come with fresh O-Rings for the drain plug and the filter housing, but they appear to be made of different...
forum.ih8mud.com
gaijin
GOLD Star
Prices have gone up since I started that thread in 2013, but the TRD filter is still available for about US$13. Check these sources:
LC200 TRD Oil Filter Sources
Well worth it, IMHO.
HTH
Edit to add:
I buy mine here: TRDParts4U
Toyota engineer spec 0W 20 synthetic oil so for vehicle engine dependability that’s what I use. Go to www.bobistheoilguy.com to learn more about oil and other lubrication for your vehicle
