Welding on Pig body's (1 Viewer)

[Megadoomer]

I think in the second video he shows the lap weld back where the joint is facing upward ( or downward?)so water would be hard to get to? I might be wrong about this as I was my third beer.

oh ok, I didnt watch the second one. He was really dry and I was falling asleep.

 

[J Mack]

Questions about doing this.

• would you use a cavity wax or fluid film method on an ABCD pillar?
• 100% yes, I’ve mentioned this several times in several places but I will share my thoughts again here. A pig is known to condensate and rust from the inside out, if we assume this moisture is collected up at the roof and migrates down then the edge of the inner roof skin and all the pillars would see moisture and would be a great place to apply a protective coating. The nice thing about the cavity way is its ability to wick (capillary action) into areas paint cannot and stay semi flexible indefinitely. "inside doors and tailgate is also a great place to apply some extra coating" the area were the door skin folds over the door structure is prone to rusting and the wax will wick into that area.
• 
  
• Would you want some sort of paint on the inside of a pillar first?
• Paint is a plus and adding another layer of protection is a great idea if the right product is used and applied correctly. Unfortunately that’s easier said than done and too much of the wrong paint would bridge over gaps and prevent the cavity wax form getting in and crack out later letting water in. Painting blind in a cavity is easier watching on YouTube than doing it on your pig so If I were going to paint first I would go sparingly with the paint and heavy with the wax, as I said above dripping out the bottom wouldn’t hurt my feelings.

2.A What is the method for doing that if so?

I have the guns I showed above but you could use a cavity wax gun/ pressurized undercoating gun with the flexible tube extension from Amazon/China and fill it with your favorite paint and coat the insides with paint first, as cheap as those guns and tubes are I wouldn’t even bother cleaning them between coats.



Hypothetically, if you cut the roof off of a vehicle below the drip rail and then had access to the pillars from the top. What would you do to prep them before putting a roof back on?

Same as above but I believe you could get in all the cavities better, the pillars are several pieces welded together and have several cavities that might be very difficult to get to from just the access points. Remember the pig also has large access holes below every pillar and you would want to snake the tube up from there as well as down from above.

 

[J Mack]

I think in the second video he shows the lap weld back where the joint is facing upward ( or downward?)so water would be hard to get to? I might be wrong about this as I was my third beer.

Yeah he talks about this in the second video.
I was originally taught to lap weld and lead the seam on the outside and undercoat the inside, that quickly changed to body filler "Bondo" on the outside and I feel like that's what I did forever.
I started watching the "HERO" guys that 100% metal finish the panels butt weld and started doing that more but for all the reasons the guy in the video mentioned I'm starting to lean back to lap welding.

That old Mac Tools flange tool also pokes holes and it was quick to do a patch with just spot welds and I don't remember seeing the little paint blisters everyone is getting in their patched panels now

 

[Ol Yeller]

This is my go-to guy. His cut n butt method is faster than the way the guy above explains.

That is the guy my dad watches, seems to have good results, dad has done a lot of major rust repair to his 74 2002.

 

[J Mack]

So MIG welding..
What size wire and what are you settings for Pig Steel?

 

[RUSH55]

So MIG welding..
What size wire and what are you settings for Pig Steel?

I’ve gotten my best results using .023”/.025” wire on a lower amp setting (80?) and a medium-slow wire speed.
Used to use a cheap hardware store brand called Forney, but later switched to Lincoln wire which can be picked up at Home Depot (no welding supplier in my town).
The sheetmetal duty welder is a 160AMP POS that was given to me long ago. It’s burned through countless spools of wire throughout the Fly By Night saga. Took awhile to work out its issues (or maybe my issues), but does what I need it to do.
The settings in the pic are what I ran with on the latest Pig body jobs.

 

[J Mack]

I’ve gotten my best results using .023”/.025” wire on a lower amp setting (80?) and a medium-slow wire speed.

Would you be willing to do some random testing with me?
I've been welding with .035" wire for the last 25 years and only just recently bought some .030" rollers and wire for one of my feeders.
.023" and .025" is not something any of my feeders will do and I have questions.
I'll send you material if needed so we can compare notes.

 

[bobm]

So MIG welding..
What size wire and what are you settings for Pig Steel?

None! .030 and make your adjustments the way you weld or **** around and buy a load of wire and experiment with speed and wire thickness! It's metal you are smarter make your adjustments with Heat and your Speed! Don't over complicate it

 

[J Mack]

you are smarter

Don't assume....


Yes Bob we can dial in our machines but... I believe you and I have ran a few more # of wire than some of our IH8MUD friends and if we can do something together that benefits that one guy that's still paying attention then we win.

We already talked about the run wire for a 6 count measure in inches and add a zero to get your IPM so we are on the road to pulling this all together.

 

[bobm]

Understood! I just try to simplify and not get too detailed if not necessary. You need to feel what you are doing ( I know a lot of us do with all the talent here.) But to simplify without getting over complicated or confused with all the info, details and finite adjustments should be considered after initial learning of the process . Understandably why my teacher from years ago stressed learning TIG, was more important than the other processes of welding because who knew it was the process of the future . Thanks Mr. Gasparello. Never forget him or Mr. Lampros. Great teachers.

 

[RUSH55]

Would you be willing to do some random testing with me?

Of course!

 

[bobm]

Gotta drill holes in me frame dis week for hard fuel line!! Should I have an Automotive engineer, a Mechanical engineer, a Structural engineer and a few more Peeps with degree's be4 I drill HO's or just go fo it cause it all based on theory anyways my

 

[J Mack]

Gotta drill holes in me frame dis week

What page are you on in the "BOOK"?
I believe that's covered somewhere around page 200, 45 years ago BoB..

 

[J Mack]

So let’s get this out of the way first, as it turns out I’m no good at internet talking and there are rules I’m not aware of so if my questions have offended you I’m sorry that was never my intent. I’m a guy that only ever worked with guys and none of us could spell or type so chatting on the internet wasn’t something any of us ever considered, we would share information by asking one another “why the heck do you do it that way” then the conversations would start and you would share your ideas on the subject. Usually one or both of you would learn something and continue talking about it with others over a cold beer. So keep in mind if you ask me a question I will do my best to tell you what I believe and point you to any facts if I have them, if you have facts to the contrary of what I believe I would love to learn something new so please share them.



I’ve seen a trend of “butt” welding body panels for the last 30 or so years and I feel like we all have seen rust bubbles in the paint coming back through a repair area and it’s usually at a weld seam. I believe if you weld “cold” the lack of penetration creates the void on the back side that allows the rust to quickly penetrate that area. I don’t believe MIG welding a butt weld with the spot, spot, spot technique is the best option but we all do it and that’s what I would like to focus on (is there a right way to do it wrong).

I’ve done most of my body repair with .035 wire running 120+/- IPM 16/17 volts and I would use 14 gauge steel and try to focus the heat to the thicker part when I would see it start to burn through. I recently bought some .030 rollers for my machine and I’ve been using that for the last year or so on the thin sheet steel and run that around 140+/- IPM 16/17 volts and haven’t really noticed a difference but I’ve never taken the time to back to back test them either. My machine settings are a little hot for 20 gauge and a little cold for 14 gauge and I’ve always just assumed I’m getting decent penetration (I haven’t seen a bunch of long or short term failures) but I don’t know if it could be better.

Of course!

If a few of you are willing we should agree on a standard, do some testing and share our results.

I’ve read some of you prefer 20 gauge so we can make that the standard then add variables to that at a later date. Coupons here if you want to join and need material.

Carbon Steel Flat Coupons - https://weldmetalsonline.com/collections/flat-metal-coupons/products/carbon-steel-flat-coupons



I know a lot of machines have letters, numbers or percentage for volts and speeds but it would be good if we can at least agree on wire speed in IPM (run your wire for a count to 6 then measure and add a zero to that number) and that should be close enough for anyone to follow along. If you don’t already know get your wire in the ballpark and adjust your volts to get your weld to your liking when you are going in blind and usually you can be up and running on a new machine pretty quickly.

If you’re willing then let’s talk about it and work on this as time permits and learn together if we can do better, what is better or is it good enough already…

 

[bobm]

Are we evaluating the coupons (cutting in half) or sending to metallurgist

 

[J Mack]

Are we evaluating the coupons (cutting in half) or sending to metallurgist

I think we can flip them over and look at the back side and post a few pictures too.
We should be able to see good penetration unless you have a better idea like cut and acid etch ..

 

[bobm]

Thing about Mig is starts cold and finishes Hot no matter the method. I think true evaluation without getting crazy, would be to cut in da middle to get a reasonable look at penetration on the coupon. Are we also doing Butt and welds? Or coupons with offsets at 90° or 45°?? Or should we do all for best results and more knowledge

 

[J Mack]

Thing about Mig

I'm up for anything, lets talk about what we would like to see and do it..
We have some really talented guys down here and I believe we can add some facts to rule of thumb and help others so yeah count me in for whatever..