Awesome work!
Builds Welcome home Matilda - faded like your favorite pair of jeans (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter CruiserTrash
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great work and thread, funny I have been following you on IG since before I owned my 60, and now I've stumbled over your thread! Took a second to connect the dots. Love it!
- Thread starter
- #183
Thanks! Please don’t do what I do though, I have zero idea what I’m doing haha.
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I am very interested in trying the HZJ75 springs on something.
Long-spline input gear shouldn't make noise at all. My opinion the 3:1 gears don't really make noise either.
One thing I will say is if you are considering H55f in the future, hands down the cheapest H55f is a new one.
Long-spline input gear shouldn't make noise at all. My opinion the 3:1 gears don't really make noise either.
One thing I will say is if you are considering H55f in the future, hands down the cheapest H55f is a new one.
- Thread starter
- #185
Do it
Spoke with close to 10 people who had 3:1 and 4:1 gears before I decided to stay stock and it was a common comment among 100% of them that they whine. Never driven them myself, so who knows. I imagine it’s a break-in/bedding thing.
The cheapest way to do an H55 is not in a 1982 FJ60. Not that it can’t be done, but it’s an uphill battle with the crossmember, driveshafts, etc. I’d love an H41 for the first gear, and I’d live with 1:1 plus rubber overdrive on the highway.
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You just need driveshafts and transfer linkage. My comment wasn’t about those, it was about buying a used/broken H55f and rebuilding/fixing to save money vs a new one. That is almost never worth it at all, even DIY.
The 4:1 gears are pretty noisy, the 3:1 gears are quiet in my experience. I’ve only installed about 10 sets myself so what do I know though.
The 4:1 gears are pretty noisy, the 3:1 gears are quiet in my experience. I’ve only installed about 10 sets myself so what do I know though.
- Thread starter
- #187
Heard that. Transmission work is expensive and difficult. I’ve heard one of the bearings on H41/42/55s it’s an absolute bear to remove for starters. At the end of the day though I’ve gotten lucky before, but I’ve never gotten rich. We’ll see what happens down the road but an H42 is plenty good by me.
Great. 2 of the 7-8 people I talked to were considered putting the stock gears back in because their 3:1 sets constantly whine. Maybe y’all bought gears from different sources. I know there’s Terrain Tamer and Sumo on the market, so there’s two options (unless there’s some brand engineering going on). Either way I just stuffed 2.3:1’s back in a transfer case I don’t intend to open up for a long time. The truck does everything I ask of it for my uses with those.
You’re a smart dude Matt, but you could stand to lose a bit of the attitude.
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Maybe I should have have been more direct. I read this ^ and am thinking that you might have a problem? For however many of the low gears I’ve done I’ve installed probably 4-5x the amount of long-spline ones. Again, shouldn’t be any audible noise from my experience. I don’t really care about being right, I care about you having a expensive issue later
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- Thread starter
- #189
It truly sounds like what I would expect from gear whine from a brand new gear spinning a 150k mile gear, and since I’ve gotten the project done the noise has gradually gotten quieter. It’s not an alarming sound. It’s not as loud as an old throwout bearing whining. All the thrust clearances and bearing preload were good - got plenty of brand new shims leftover after ordering a bunch from Toyota, too. There’s not much else that can go wrong inside the case. Maybe the idler shaft or output shaft bearings make a different noise since they’re new? It could be a lot of things, but I don’t think anything is necessarily wrong.
I mean, all of that aside, I mentioned 3:1 gears on a future pie-in-the-sky dream list. It’s kind of irrelevant at this point since I got done rebuilding a transfer case like three weeks ago and will hopefully get 5-10 years out of it. Is there a reason you really want to drill down on that one thing so much?
I mean, all of that aside, I mentioned 3:1 gears on a future pie-in-the-sky dream list. It’s kind of irrelevant at this point since I got done rebuilding a transfer case like three weeks ago and will hopefully get 5-10 years out of it. Is there a reason you really want to drill down on that one thing so much?
batthewmrown
SILVER Star
Feels dirty to be mentioned in the same breath as @orangefj45 and @CenTXFJ60 but yeah, okay, whatever you say.
Rockymtnreaper
Colorado.Cruiser
Listen man... I'm just here for more photos!
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- #192
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- #193
Argentine Pass action shot. Post-stripes, pre-PIAAs. A lot steeper than it looked coming out of the creek. A 70 Series fire truck had to be winched outta there.
- Thread starter
- #194
Alright, let’s start cataloging some more detailed stuff…
Last fall my transfer case started making a grinding noise in 4hi and 4low. Pinion nuts weren’t loose even though the rear output seal was leaking, and after some testing (remove front DS, hubs locked/unlocked, different speeds, straight and turning, etc) I decided it was time for a rebuild. The internal seal was leaking anyway, so the transmission would get overfilled and the transfer case low. I probably just let it get too low honestly and it damaged a bearing or something. I had already acquired an extra H42 that had supposedly been rebuilt, ran for 1000 miles, and pulled for an H55. I had also gotten a spare transfer case.
I started tearing down both my spares last fall and work was slow - I was busy with lots of other stuff. Inspected the transmission and specs were on point then finally got the transfer case rebuild underway in January and had it done towards the end of February. Then it was a swap job. Aside from the rebuild kit I got every new part available from Toyota - nuts and bolts, all the rubber and plastic bits for the shifter linkages, new detent springs, hex drain & fill plugs, new speedo driven gear and o-ring, etc. I used the Permatex stuff referenced by Georg and Jimmy for the gaskets. New shims from Toyota to set the rear output preload. Enough yapping … here’s some photos.
On the ground where I did the final assembly. Crappy homemade jig. Transfer case and all it’s parts got wire wheeled to hell and back with a cordless drill. Transmission got rattle canned.
Shiny new flanges
I found it a lot easier to get the assembly in and out with the tunnel cover off. I could see on the hole of the cover where somebody else had bent the edge of it doing this before and trying to leave the cover in place. It took 25 minutes to strip the interior down this far and it was worth it.
Even the bellhousing got removed, cleaned, and painted.
70 Series transfer case breather has a barb fitting on it. Yeah, you can run a line high up for water crossing, but also my old breather was gunked up and some people say that makes a pressure differential in the case that causes the internal seal to fail. Maybe that’s true, maybe not. It’s an easy press fit deal.
Early 60 bellhousings have an opening for the clurch fork on both sides. Rubber boots for both sides are still available. Here’s what you stick in the non-fork side so it’s not a gaping hole:
Ran into an issue with the Cruiser Outfitter’s aftermarket transmission mount where the curved metal part contact the front driveshaft bolt heads as the driveshaft rotated. It was fairly easy to get in there and bend it away. I talked to the CO people and they’re making sure no more like this go out the door.
Cut this tab off the shift lever brace so now I have 2Low. Like a twin stick, but with one stick! Now if my 4WD or front end gives me trouble on the trail and I need low gearing to get back out to pavement I got a good safety option.
Last fall my transfer case started making a grinding noise in 4hi and 4low. Pinion nuts weren’t loose even though the rear output seal was leaking, and after some testing (remove front DS, hubs locked/unlocked, different speeds, straight and turning, etc) I decided it was time for a rebuild. The internal seal was leaking anyway, so the transmission would get overfilled and the transfer case low. I probably just let it get too low honestly and it damaged a bearing or something. I had already acquired an extra H42 that had supposedly been rebuilt, ran for 1000 miles, and pulled for an H55. I had also gotten a spare transfer case.
I started tearing down both my spares last fall and work was slow - I was busy with lots of other stuff. Inspected the transmission and specs were on point then finally got the transfer case rebuild underway in January and had it done towards the end of February. Then it was a swap job. Aside from the rebuild kit I got every new part available from Toyota - nuts and bolts, all the rubber and plastic bits for the shifter linkages, new detent springs, hex drain & fill plugs, new speedo driven gear and o-ring, etc. I used the Permatex stuff referenced by Georg and Jimmy for the gaskets. New shims from Toyota to set the rear output preload. Enough yapping … here’s some photos.
On the ground where I did the final assembly. Crappy homemade jig. Transfer case and all it’s parts got wire wheeled to hell and back with a cordless drill. Transmission got rattle canned.
Shiny new flanges
I found it a lot easier to get the assembly in and out with the tunnel cover off. I could see on the hole of the cover where somebody else had bent the edge of it doing this before and trying to leave the cover in place. It took 25 minutes to strip the interior down this far and it was worth it.
Even the bellhousing got removed, cleaned, and painted.
70 Series transfer case breather has a barb fitting on it. Yeah, you can run a line high up for water crossing, but also my old breather was gunked up and some people say that makes a pressure differential in the case that causes the internal seal to fail. Maybe that’s true, maybe not. It’s an easy press fit deal.
Early 60 bellhousings have an opening for the clurch fork on both sides. Rubber boots for both sides are still available. Here’s what you stick in the non-fork side so it’s not a gaping hole:
Ran into an issue with the Cruiser Outfitter’s aftermarket transmission mount where the curved metal part contact the front driveshaft bolt heads as the driveshaft rotated. It was fairly easy to get in there and bend it away. I talked to the CO people and they’re making sure no more like this go out the door.
Cut this tab off the shift lever brace so now I have 2Low. Like a twin stick, but with one stick! Now if my 4WD or front end gives me trouble on the trail and I need low gearing to get back out to pavement I got a good safety option.
- Thread starter
- #195
I also took my oil pan off to make the rear main seal easier to do while I was in there. And I wanted to get a look at some of the bearing since the motor has always made a non-rhythmic noise from the lower end.
Figured I’d go ahead and get a new oil pan too. Grab one in case they get discontinued. A note about that…. At least versus an original early 60 pan, the middle baffle of the new pans are slightly moved towards the rear.
This interferes with the oil pump slightly and makes the pan get to within about a 1/4” of seating on the block, and then stop. There’s already a notch in the baffle for the part of the pump that runs down to the pickup screen, and cutting that deeper solved the problem. Don’t forget to clean up all your metal shavings REALLY well kids. (This is before filing the edges smooth and cleaning up).
Beautiful new Overland Metric oil pan bolts. Fresh hardware makes every job go quicker and smoother.
To test the baffle theory, I smeared dirty oil on the pickup tube then did a test fit. Once the pan met resistance I wiggled it around a few times. The existing notch in the baffle hit the pickup tube where the red circle is - it rubbed some of the dirty oil off to show silver. The new pans are listed as universal for 2F & 3FE motors in the 60 Series, hence there might be some issues to sort out on certain years of motors.
Ok, so the bearings… pretty darn worn. I only took off the rod cap and looked at those, and the #4 main bearing to make the rear main seal easy to get in. All of the rod cap bearings looked like this:
#6 rod cap bearing was pretty loose in the cap and when I took it out…
You’re look at the back of the bearing (left) and the inside of the #6 rod cap on the right. Those strange marks match when you put them together. I have never been this deep in a motor or analyzed bearings so I’m in uncharted waters. I was told that it looks like the bearing was starting to move or spin.
I cleaned the cap bolt threads and the nut threads with brake cleaner so they were dry. Cleaned the back of the bearings where they mate to the caps, then oiled the bearing surface and put everything back together to FSM spec. It’s been running fine with no change in the weird noise that comes and goes. More on what the future holds in another post, but I’d love to hear some thoughts.
Here’s the finished work.
The old assembly will eventually get autopsied, but I have other stuff to do until at least next winter. Karen was a huge help in helping me pull this out.
Oh, and the pilot bearing … neither bread nor grease worked. Huge 1970s Snap On slide hammer with a filed down hook on the end did it in one go. It literally took 3 seconds once I had the proper tool in my hand.
Figured I’d go ahead and get a new oil pan too. Grab one in case they get discontinued. A note about that…. At least versus an original early 60 pan, the middle baffle of the new pans are slightly moved towards the rear.
This interferes with the oil pump slightly and makes the pan get to within about a 1/4” of seating on the block, and then stop. There’s already a notch in the baffle for the part of the pump that runs down to the pickup screen, and cutting that deeper solved the problem. Don’t forget to clean up all your metal shavings REALLY well kids. (This is before filing the edges smooth and cleaning up).
Beautiful new Overland Metric oil pan bolts. Fresh hardware makes every job go quicker and smoother.
To test the baffle theory, I smeared dirty oil on the pickup tube then did a test fit. Once the pan met resistance I wiggled it around a few times. The existing notch in the baffle hit the pickup tube where the red circle is - it rubbed some of the dirty oil off to show silver. The new pans are listed as universal for 2F & 3FE motors in the 60 Series, hence there might be some issues to sort out on certain years of motors.
Ok, so the bearings… pretty darn worn. I only took off the rod cap and looked at those, and the #4 main bearing to make the rear main seal easy to get in. All of the rod cap bearings looked like this:
#6 rod cap bearing was pretty loose in the cap and when I took it out…
You’re look at the back of the bearing (left) and the inside of the #6 rod cap on the right. Those strange marks match when you put them together. I have never been this deep in a motor or analyzed bearings so I’m in uncharted waters. I was told that it looks like the bearing was starting to move or spin.
I cleaned the cap bolt threads and the nut threads with brake cleaner so they were dry. Cleaned the back of the bearings where they mate to the caps, then oiled the bearing surface and put everything back together to FSM spec. It’s been running fine with no change in the weird noise that comes and goes. More on what the future holds in another post, but I’d love to hear some thoughts.
Here’s the finished work.
The old assembly will eventually get autopsied, but I have other stuff to do until at least next winter. Karen was a huge help in helping me pull this out.
Oh, and the pilot bearing … neither bread nor grease worked. Huge 1970s Snap On slide hammer with a filed down hook on the end did it in one go. It literally took 3 seconds once I had the proper tool in my hand.
- Thread starter
- #196
I’ll get back to old work later. I mentioned the future in the last post…
So the bearings didn’t thrill me. It’s a 2F though, they seem to want to keep running despite all odds against them. But I also recently did a compression test. Top dry, bottom wet.
Again, I have no doubt a 2F will run like this, but I’m way past the range spec between cylinders. The rings on 1-5 are not great. Somehow #6 with the bad bearing is doing it’s thing though.
I’ve also borescoped from the spark plug holes and the manifold side and the head and valves are full of gross carbon. The cylinder walls have tiny pits here and there along with lots of carbon or something at the top. The valve stem seals are giving me the classic puff of smoke after idling in place for a minute.
My goal with this truck is reliability. Whether that’s taking the kids to school on time in the morning or way, way out in the desert. This ain’t gonna cut it.
Cue my spare 2F:
This got dropped off at the machine shop this week. We’re gonna do the deal on a rebuilt 2F. I’ll be doing assembly, which I’ve never done. Not even close. Hope I don’t mess it up.
I already had a head rebuilt by this shop a few years ago and never installed it, so that’s ready to go.
Machine shop said the crank looked fine but the cam had too much pitting and corrosion on the lobes to save. Sent my lifters and instructions to Delta Camshaft Friday so they can grind me a good cam out of a core and surface the lifters. We’re underway.
I feel like I did with the Tomato 60 a few years ago. A little lost in a new venture, and a bit crazy. I probably don’t really need to be rebuilding a motor. Certainly in lots of other countries they’d toss new bearings in and send it for another couple years. But I feel like I need to. The truck deserves it. And I want to know it’ll get me home from anywhere for the next 10-20 years. And so lots of work ahead of me right now…
So the bearings didn’t thrill me. It’s a 2F though, they seem to want to keep running despite all odds against them. But I also recently did a compression test. Top dry, bottom wet.
Again, I have no doubt a 2F will run like this, but I’m way past the range spec between cylinders. The rings on 1-5 are not great. Somehow #6 with the bad bearing is doing it’s thing though.
I’ve also borescoped from the spark plug holes and the manifold side and the head and valves are full of gross carbon. The cylinder walls have tiny pits here and there along with lots of carbon or something at the top. The valve stem seals are giving me the classic puff of smoke after idling in place for a minute.
My goal with this truck is reliability. Whether that’s taking the kids to school on time in the morning or way, way out in the desert. This ain’t gonna cut it.
Cue my spare 2F:
This got dropped off at the machine shop this week. We’re gonna do the deal on a rebuilt 2F. I’ll be doing assembly, which I’ve never done. Not even close. Hope I don’t mess it up.
I already had a head rebuilt by this shop a few years ago and never installed it, so that’s ready to go.
Machine shop said the crank looked fine but the cam had too much pitting and corrosion on the lobes to save. Sent my lifters and instructions to Delta Camshaft Friday so they can grind me a good cam out of a core and surface the lifters. We’re underway.
I feel like I did with the Tomato 60 a few years ago. A little lost in a new venture, and a bit crazy. I probably don’t really need to be rebuilding a motor. Certainly in lots of other countries they’d toss new bearings in and send it for another couple years. But I feel like I need to. The truck deserves it. And I want to know it’ll get me home from anywhere for the next 10-20 years. And so lots of work ahead of me right now…
Dekeman
SILVER Star
Great documentation. Watching.
I'm curious if you found anything obvious with the T-case when you disassembled it? I am experiencing a similar noise, which we talked about last fall when I picked up the spare tire, thanks again for that. I did buy a rebuild kit but have been too busy to do anything with it and am hoping that takes care of the problem.
- Thread starter
- #199
Hey man! I remember talking about that when you stopped over at my place - it was kind of a hot topic for me right then because I had just hit a trail with @overhanger and the noise was fresh in my mind. I have not opened up the transfer case I took out yet - probably sometime over the next year I will. My guess is that I got lazy about monitoring fluid levels and it toasted a bearing, causing something to get loose and rattle around. If the internal oil seal between the transfer case and transmission is leaking you pretty much have to monitor the situation weekly, and that’s a pain. If yours is leaking I’d get one of those hoses that shares the fluid and start planning some time for the rebuild. Happy to help with that or give pointers.
