water pump pulley help?

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I'm trying to replace a water pump and metal fan on a 03 or 04/77 2F that was transplanted into an FJ55. The first photo shows the old pump and pulley. The distance from the block to the pulley mounting flange is 4 13/16". I ordered the pump and fan shown in the second photo. The vendor told me it was also 4 13/16". Wrong, it's 6 3/16" ! This is the exact h*ll I was trying to avoid.

I'm faced with trying to return and source another pump. The second photo shows a mockup that indicates I have plenty of room between fan and rad. Can anyone tell me definitively which pulley I would need to look for? As nearly as I can measure, the first pulley sheeve center would need to be back 1.375" from the rear of the pulley mounting face. Anyone know which pulley will align the belts here? Thank you.
 
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77mustard40

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Question, does your fan have a fan clutch or is it direct drive? Reason I asked is I’m 9/77 and just replaced my water pump and have a fan clutch and oil cooler. All the vendors spec a water pump for my truck that is either no oil cooler with fan clutch or with oil cooler but no fan clutch. I ended up plugging in an 85 FJ60 into my dealers website to get a pump with oil cooler and fan clutch. Worked perfect.

E31DB2F2-EA23-4A33-864B-C7F297593FD5.jpeg
 

Steamer

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I really think it would be easier to get the correct water pump than it would be to find a pulley to correct for the wrong pump.
OEM is NLA for your 72. I think Japanese is best aftermarket. GMB brand comes to mind.
Several vendors here on Mud can get you the correct pump.
 

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View attachment 3048246View attachment 3048247

I'm trying to replace a water pump and metal fan on a 03 or 04/77 2F that was transplanted into an FJ55. The first photo shows the old pump and pulley. The distance from the block to the pulley mounting flange is 4 13/16". I ordered the pump and fan shown in the second photo. The vendor told me it was also 4 13/16". Wrong, it's 6 3/16" ! This is the exact h*ll I was trying to avoid.

I'm faced with trying to return and source another pump. The second photo shows a mockup that indicates I have plenty of room between fan and rad. Can anyone tell me definitively which pulley I would need to look for? As nearly as I can measure, the first pulley sheeve center would need to be back 1.375" from the rear of the pulley mounting face. Anyone know which pulley will align the belts here? Thank you.


this is EAZY PEEZY .......

you simply need a :


- OEM Direct Drive FJ55 Double Groove Abraham Lincoln TOP HAT Pulley ....


see below link tech example "





1656847912618.png


1656847972343.png


1656847962027.png



 

flx

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View attachment 3048246View attachment 3048247

I'm trying to replace a water pump and metal fan on a 03 or 04/77 2F that was transplanted into an FJ55. The first photo shows the old pump and pulley. The distance from the block to the pulley mounting flange is 4 13/16". I ordered the pump and fan shown in the second photo. The vendor told me it was also 4 13/16". Wrong, it's 6 3/16" ! This is the exact h*ll I was trying to avoid.

I'm faced with trying to return and source another pump. The second photo shows a mockup that indicates I have plenty of room between fan and rad. Can anyone tell me definitively which pulley I would need to look for? As nearly as I can measure, the first pulley sheeve center would need to be back 1.375" from the rear of the pulley mounting face. Anyone know which pulley will align the belts here? Thank you.
Your original WP looks like a model with a fan clutch between the pulley and the fan.
Fan clutch takes a lot of space so the WP made for fan clutch are sorter, the longer WP you received is probably for direct drive fan.

Things is, even with a shorter WP, the fan clutch setup is longer than the direct drive one. On FJ40 they moved the radiator forward and changed the shroud to fit the fan clutch.
From my understanding there were no space for this in the FJ55 and they kept a direct drive fan (except in Europe but it's another story) almost to the end.

So you may have received the wrong WP but in the end it may be the right one for your new setup...
 
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77mustard40-Your pump is what I think I was trying to order. I think my pulley would line right up.
Steamer-I wasn't necessarily trying o go 72. Just wanted to eliminate metal flex fan.

By the way, oil cooler, no clutch. What hacks me is a very well respected vendor pulled the part and told me in writing the pump is 4 3/16 from block to hub face. The 6" one arrived!

flx- Yeah, it's whichever is easier to get-identifying the right pulley or have someone come up with the right pump. Return postage and restocking fees are getting old. If I could source the pulley, I would keep what I've got. It mocks up.

ToyotaMatt- I'll study what you sent.

Thanks to all.
 
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ToyotaMatt

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77mustard40-Your pump is what I think I was trying to order. I think my pulley would line right up.
Steamer-I wasn't necessarily trying o go 72. Just wanted to eliminate metal flex fan.

By the way, oil cooler, no clutch. What hacks me is a very well espected vendor pulled the part and told me in writing the pump is 4 4 3/16 from block to hub face. The 6" one arrived!

flx- Yeah, it's whichever is easier to get-identifying the right pulley or have someone come up with the right pump. Return postage and restocking fees are getting old. If I could source the pulley, I would keep what I've got. It mocks up.

ToyotaMatt- I'll study what you sent.

Thanks to all.


FJ55 NEVER came with a fan clutch option , this is a fact i know well ........


hence , your now current longer direct drive NO FAN CLUTCH OPTION is correct for all FJ55 ........


i have a 1/79 FJ55LG-KA and it has a OIL Cooler Option YES

NO , fan clutch option NO ,


oil cooler FJ55 generally started in the 1/75 2F introduction on all California smog destination market units then spread later FJ55 all around


much much different topic on the 40's


CLUTCH option and shorter pump speaking .............only .....fyi


is it confusing ?

heck yes it is 🤔
 

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ToyotaMatt

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forgot to mention :

- it's simply ultra rare but it indeed did occur some 1/75- approx. mid 1976 FJ40 Did have a Direct drive water pump , but Only a single groove top hat pully ........

- most FJ55 had oem Power Steering from 1/75- 2F and later , hence the double groove top hat pulleys


- again some
ultra rare FJ55 2F did have manual steering , but only a hand full , maybe CANADA MARKET units i suspect ?


- lastly , a FJ55 is a WAGON a FJ40 is a MPV oil coolers are primary a Emissions SMOG option in a fundamental sense ,

- a fan clutch is a MAJOR smog related option part fundamentally

- wagons and MPV had very very different smog requirements





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flx

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FJ55 NEVER came with a fan clutch option , this is a fact i know well ........
They did in Europe (as for 74-76 FJ40) for noise reduction regulation but it's a completely different setup with a non-thermal clutch and it's impossible to find nowadays.
 

flx

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flx- Yeah, it's whichever is easier to get-identifying the right pulley or have someone come up with the right pump. Return postage and restocking fees are getting old. If I could source the pulley, I would keep what I've got. It mocks up.

Identifying the right pulley isn't difficult and I think they are not too hard to find in the US. If you need 2 grooves it's not free but they exist as ToyotaMatt showed you.

Now if you already have the clutch and the right pulley you would very well prefer the fan clutch setup and the correct WP is available new easily (either from Toyota with oil cooler or from Aisin w/o the oil cooler). But I would check the spacing before, if you still have the old WP-pulley-clutch-fan I would mockup on your new engine bay to check how close to the radiator you end up.
 
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ToyotaMatt

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They did in Europe (as for 74-76 FJ40) for noise reduction regulation but it's a completely different setup with a non-thermal clutch and it's impossible to find nowadays.


i was speaking from a North American destination markets point of view , 🤣
 

77mustard40

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77mustard40-Your pump is what I think I was trying to order. I think my pulley would line right up.
Steamer-I wasn't necessarily trying o go 72. Just wanted to eliminate metal flex fan.

All the later 2F’s came with oil cooler line and a fan clutch, does your existing fan have a clutch? I can’t tell from the angle of the photo in your original post, but the old pump looks like a fan clutch was fitted.
 
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"Identifying the right pulley isn't difficult and I think they are not too hard to find in the US. If you need 2 grooves it's not free but they exist as ToyotaMatt showed you."

Well, based on the above conversation, I would say identifying it and finding it ARE difficult.

There was no fan clutch and I'm not trying to put one in. Simply trying to replace water pump and metal fan. As viewed in the photo, the original pump was "short" and the pulley had "no offset" or "setback". My preference is to keep what I've got as it mocks up and the fan shroud clears. But now with longer pump, I have to find correct pulley (2 groove) that bolts up and aligns with crank and other accesories.

Never wanted to be stuck choosing between vendors supplying wrong information then wrong pump vs. identifying and sourcing some unicorn pulley. The other wild card is the bolt pattern on the pulley is different among them. Unless someone can provide explicit dimensions as to pulley "setback" and flange bolt pattern, I'm not going to chase expensive pulleys and HOPE they fit. This doesn't seem that hard-appearances are not what they seem.



Thanks.
 
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ToyotaMatt

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"Identifying the right pulley isn't difficult and I think they are not too hard to find in the US. If you need 2 grooves it's not free but they exist as ToyotaMatt showed you."

Well, based on the above conversation, I would say identifying it and finding it ARE difficult.

There was no fan clutch and I'm not trying to put one in. Simply trying to replace water pump and metal fan. As viewed in the photo, the original pump was "short" and the pulley had "no offset" or "setback". My preference is to keep what I've got as it mocks up and the fan shroud clears. But now with longer pump, I have to find correct pulley (2 groove) that bolts up and aligns with crank and other accesories.

Never wanted to be stuck choosing between vendors supplying wrong information then wrong pump vs. identifying and sourcing some unicorn pulley. The other wild card is the bolt pattern on the pulley is different among them. Unless someone can provide explicit dimensions as to pulley "setback" and flange bolt pattern, I'm not going to chase expensive pulleys and HOPE they fit. This doesn't seem that hard-appearances are not what they seem.



Thanks.


im 100% confident in my TECH. above , so much so because i have added OEM P/S to a 1/75 - 7/78 USA spec FJ40 2F many times in my past

- u have to also drill , tap threads and add three 12mm x 1.25 pitch holes to the cylinder head drivers side and one 10mm x 1.5 pitch hole the the water pump area block face area to use a 8/78-9/87 2F owm power steering pump mounting cast iron bracket



YES , drilling just shy of your #1 cylinder coolant passages is a real addieren RUSH for sure 100% SOLID ! :D


- one fact i forgot to mention , because there are so many here is NO usa spec. FJ40 ever came with the 2F double groove top hat pully ......


- why ?





because , by the time the fan clutch option became standard equipment the FJ40 2F Board , the OEM P/S set up first introduced in 8/78 was not even invented yet

globally




- ONLY a top HAT single groove pulley was ever on a FJ40 using a direct drive water pump set up 1/75- 7/78


- lastly , below is the FJ55 Double Groove Pulley 16371-60080 / 60090 is the pulley you need ........




- note : ignore the CANADA spec. star it does not apply here .........fyi






1656862074716.png
 
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ToyotaMatt

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16100-61041 direct drive FJ55 oil cooler option NOS OEM Pump w/ your needed 16371-60080 / 60090 FJ55 only pulley



- the Aluminum 16371-60080 / 60090 pulley is my prototype final of my production run soon to begin of reproductions , finding a real oem steel ones any more to restore is a lost cause pretty much ........

and

NO longer is simply not practical , they are simply not out there anymore :confused:



- with the introduction of my BILLIT reproduction version , this will be a game changer oem pipe dream of mine a long time coming i hope :):beer:



i guess my billet Pandora is out of my TEq box ….😅




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ToyotaMatt

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.



 
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flx

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Unless someone can provide explicit dimensions as to pulley "setback" and flange bolt pattern,
I don't have the exact dimensions of the flange bolt pattern but I believe they are different to avoid mounting a pulley made for a clutch system on a WP made for direct drive.

I think the direct drive pattern is smaller.
IMAG0534.jpg


See also the difference in height you measured:
IMAG0535.jpg


One thing very clear is:
- Short WP = setup with fan clutch
- Long WP = setup without fan clutch

So either you buy a short WP, re-use your current pulley, source a fan clutch and appropriate fan (and hope it fits between your engine and radiator, probably very tight)
or you keep your long WP and current and source the correct pulley.

Pulleys from direct drive and clutch are easy to differentiate, the clutch one are like a disk while the direct drive ones are like a top hat.
(the belt are in the same place so from longer WP you need to get down more)

Direct drive "top hat" pulley:
20190402_221733-jpg.1943465


Fan clutch "disk" pulley:
1656866770115.png



If there is a risk of wrong pulley it's only between a 2F direct drive pulley and a F direct drive pulley because both are "top hat" shape but the F one is shorter.
If you search the classifieds you will fin multiple people that have sold "2F double grooves direct drive pulley", if you have time you can wait for a used one for sell for cheap.

Some extra images to see the differences:
000_2594-jpg.449123

000_2593-jpg.449122
 

ToyotaMatt

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this can be easy ? :D


Tall pump = Tall Pulley


Short pump = Short Pulley
 
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A light when off reading your last helpful post. At least I understand how I got here. This is a new-to-me vehicle so all work is that of a PO. What I know is the engine is a 03 or 04/77 block in a 1972 pig. Now I further realize, I removed a pump and pulley intended for a clutch and matching fan. Instead of a Toyota clutch and fan, the metal fan was used. The hub on the old metal fan had four radiating mounting holes to compensate.

You are correct. From where I am now, here's how I finally understand my choice. Return pump and fan, keep pulley, then source clutch-type pump, clutch, and fan. Or keep what was sent to me, and source pulley. It boils down to sourcing a unicorn pulley vs. buying more parts to add a clutch.
 
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