violent shaking of cruiser--why? (1 Viewer)

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May 14, 2015
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Location
Oceanside, CA, USA
Hi mudders,
Little background first. I bought this HJ47 emergency service vehicle (outback paramedic truck) and imported it from Australia. I drove it some before I left the country for close to a year. It drove fine but would shake a lot (I'm not talking about baby steering wheel shake; this is big bad daddy shake where you wonder if the thing is going to hold together) at highway speed (read: 60 mph/90kmh) if the highway surface was cement type in sections. The separation of the sections would start the shake. if I slowed down to around 50mph/70kmh, it would settle down and later I'd speed up again. Other than that, no shaking. When I returned from my closet-to-year long absence and started driving it again, it started this violent shaking of the entire cab around 40mph/60kmh. It starts it when it hits uneven road surfaces. Sometimes it settles down when I slow down or speed up a little, but a lot of times it gets worse until I hit speeds of 50+mph/80-85 kmh. So it's doing it several times during a drive of maybe 5-7 miles. Never does it below 60kmh/40mph. I have a hard time believing it's wheel balance. It's got to be something bigger than that (and in fact, the only shaking the steering wheel does is the same movement as the whole cab. Never by itself).

I don't know if the fact that the cargo box behind the cab is physically separate has anything to do with it (only attached to the frame but not the cab--but maybe same thing for a ute tray; never seen one up close), but I get the impression the two (cargo box and cab aren't in synch and that might be part of the problem--but maybe not).

The two rear tires have the same tread and the two front the same tread; virtually identical tread all four (but two manufacturers). Tomorrow, just for the heck of it to eliminate the balance possibility, I'll take it in to check wheel balance. the cargo box is all aluminum; it has heavy duty springs in the rear (9 leafs) and 8 in front. New Old Man Emu shocks in the rear and probably originals in the front. Has 90,000 kms/60,000 miles total (definitely original; thing's in great shape for its age--except the shake :).

Any ideas would sure be appreciated. I've included pics so you can see the rig. Thanks.

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Have you checked if the driveshaft is in-phase and the condition of your u-joints? Someone much more experienced than me might elaborate further, but if you search for "driveshaft out of phase" you'll find a wealth of info. It can cause vibrations at varying speeds.
 
Have you checked if the driveshaft is in-phase and the condition of your u-joints? Someone much more experienced than me might elaborate further, but if you search for "driveshaft out of phase" you'll find a wealth of info. It can cause vibrations at varying speeds.
will look. thanks.
 
I used to get this on my 75 series ute and it was absoloutly terrifying!
I got the wobbles so hard one day on the freeway that the car twisted so hard the fan hit the shroud and blew up. It used to feel like the car was going to tear itself apart. I'd have to slow down gently to about 50kmph before they would stop.

I never got to the bottom of it, I sold it but I know a lot more now than I did then. These are the things I would have done now.

Wheel balance and wheel alignment.
Do you have extended shackles?? They throw the geometry out a bit and wreck your tailshaft angles.
How are the spring bushes?? I'd replace all of them.
I put a new steering damper in and it definately helped. It reduced the amount of times I'd get the death wobbles.
I'd replace all steering ends.
Like the other poster said, check your tailshaft is in phase and check the uni joints, replace them if you are even 1% suspect.
Are your shocks old/clapped out?? Now would be as good a time as ever to replace em.

To replace all that stuff really wont cost that much and I'd be surprised if it was still doing it. You want zero play in all suspension and steering components.

Looking back I rekon mine were caused by the extended shackles and there was a lot play in the spring bushes. My springs really needed some castor correction plates as my tailshaft angles were horrid. My springs were so heavy duty and I had stuff all weight in the car, my shackle angles were putrid. I was young and broke back then so I sort of half assed everything. I learnt a lot of lessons!

Good luck! Let me know how you go. I remember those death wobbles like it was yesterday and it was a nightmare. I used to get scared whenever I went over 60kmph and the road surface changed.
 
Steering ends get my vote, if they have a little play the wobble can be really bad.
 
You should search this forum for "death wobble". You'll find it can be one thing or it might be multiple things combined that creates the issue. As mentioned before, check the condition of the spring bushing and replace if required and check if the shackles are torqued properly, make sure U bolts are tight, check tierod condition, and caster angle. A steering dampener can help, but really only masks the issue. Check tire pressures, wheel balance, frt end alignment. Anything or everything can contribute to the issue.
 
In my unfortunate experience with death wobble, tires can be a major contributing factor. For example, I had a set of worn out and re-grooved 38.5" TSL SX that caused horrible wobble at speeds ~45mph. When I installed 37" Irocks the wobble went away completely.

Usually takes a few factors working together to make it as bad as you are experiencing. Since your tires are smaller I would also be suspecting wheel bearings, knuckle bearings, tie rod ends. If tires are bias ply they would go up on the contributing factor list.
 
simple to check for wheel bearing play - jack up each wheel and try to wiggle tires side to side and top to bottom (like you're tying to force tire out of perpendicular plane from axle)

just fixed similar wobble on fj60 - play was obvious and one front outer hub bearing was toast.
 
Do bad engine mounts have a role in this? The comment above about the fan hitting the shroud brings the engine mounts Into play, and they readily age deteriorate and are often neglected.

But that is a cool rig. Looks like a 45LPB derivative, year? Could see that being useful for a rural fire/EMT department to get gear into hills and backcountry before life flight/rescue or aerial retardant drops show up. Any info on who did the specialty build? Can’t tell if it’s LHD or RHD.
 
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First, thanks everyone for your help and ideas. I'll continue to investigate some that I haven't been able to yet (tire balance, alignment, bearings, and a few others). So far, everything I've looked at seems tight by visual inspection and checking bolts and movement of things by hand (shackles, four shocks, steering, drive shafts) and it's never had any lift so I assume the angles are fine since nothing has ever changed with those. I did find a lot of wobble in the front end damper shock (tried to attach the video but it wouldn't recognize the video, just pictures). On both ends of the damper shock, there is about 1/2" to 3/4"/1.25-2cms of play by trying to turn it with my hand. Could that be the cause or would it just be at best a contributing cause?
 
The dampener helps a little or helps hide the symptoms. The root cause is probably deeper in to the suspension and steering components. Likely bushings, tre"s, wheel bearings, knuckle trunion bearings, loose U bolts, etc. I see you have drive flanges. When has the frt end been serviced? If it has a stk suspension then the bushings are 38 years old. All this stuff will contribute to your issue.
 
I had this problem on HJ47 when the U-Bolts were loose. I'd recommend checking them for the proper torque
 
The dampener helps a little or helps hide the symptoms. The root cause is probably deeper in to the suspension and steering components. Likely bushings, tre"s, wheel bearings, knuckle trunion bearings, loose U bolts, etc. I see you have drive flanges. When has the frt end been serviced? If it has a stk suspension then the bushings are 38 years old. All this stuff will contribute to your issue.
so if visually, the bushings look fine, is that good enough or is there some test you can do for people that don't have a lot of mechanic's tools or equipment and not very experienced :). Not sure what knuckle trunion bearings are but I can see if the wheel bearings are warn. U bolts seem tight but maybe there's some test for that too. I have no idea when the vehicle was last serviced. The Aussie government sold it to a private party who had it for a couple years and drove it minimally. I then imported it and although it sat for almost a year in storage while I was out of the country, it's only been driven about 500 miles since I bought it. I'm taking it into a mechanic tomorrow but it's not someone who is familiar with 40 series vehicles. I'm sure he's familiar with death wobble, though (I didn't even know that was a term until this problem arose!)
 
Do bad engine mounts have a role in this? The comment above about the fan hitting the shroud brings the engine mounts Into play, and they readily age deteriorate and are often neglected.

But that is a cool rig. Looks like a 45LPB derivative, year? Could see that being useful for a rural fire/EMT department to get gear into hills and backcountry before life flight/rescue or aerial retardant drops show up. Any info on who did the specialty build? Can’t tell if it’s LHD or RHD.
It's in such good shape. The Aussie government definitely took care of its vehicles and took all kinds of pain to put rust preventative paints and like-coverings underneath to protect it. I've never seen something this nice this old in its original condition. It's a 1981. I'm actually in the process of selling it (I have a troopie version and wife won't let me keep both). It's ideal for a camper conversion for 1-2 people or utility truck. It's RHD, like all Aussie vehicles. Cargo box area was built by Giblins Motor Bodies.
 
So here's what I've done so far:
1. visually and manually (using hand to see if there's movement in anything or bolts holding things on) checked u joints, bushings, damper, steering linkage, leaf springs. Nothing except the tie rod link was loose to the touch and none of these has been worked with since I've owned it. The tie rod link (that's what I'm calling the link between the steering arm and the tie rod; see pic below) was very loose. It rotated maybe 1/2+ of a inch. I haven't tried tightening the castle bolt to see if it actually cinches down. I have my doubts but I'll check.
2. checked for wheel bearings being bad. It was just the wiggle test. The wheels had no vertical movement and only a small horizontal (3 and 9 o'oclock). The whole inner hub tended to move with the wheel but as I say, it was only a very small amount (maybe 1/8+ of an inch).

Have yet to check on:
1. tire balance
2. wheel alignment
3. exact angles of drive shafts but rig hasn't had a lift or transmission switch so not sure why that would matter.

Tomorrow, I'll take it to my mechanic who isn't familiar with these rigs, but I'll share with him what you guys have told me. I'm including various pics of the steering links and such below, so if anyone sees something I haven't because I'm a uneducated observer (some of the terms you guys use are like a foreign language to me :), please hollar. Thanks to all.

This first picture is of the steering link that has a lot of play (the 1/2+ inch)


This is the other end of that link toward the front of the rig

same thing but different angle of the first photo

close up

obviously a warn boot/bushing (which term is correct?)
 
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