UT Expedition Interest

[Cruiserdrew]

Dumb question would a stock Sequoia be able to do this stuff? I don't know a lot about either Sequoia's off-road ability or the trails at all.

It seems like the wrong vehicle in many ways for this trail. But if you try it, take lots of spare parts and pictures. This trail is not impossible but if your frame of reference is east coast woods and daisy covered meadows, there will be a steep learning curve. Don't arrive unprepared. And a stock sequoia would count as "unprepared". Good luck, not a trail to take casually.

 

[Crusha]

I am down to book flights anytime.

@fireball @Pacer

 

[Crusha]

Here's what I found for a four passenger round trip flight from PHL, Leaving 3/16 and returning 3/25.

Unfortunately, outgoing is not a non-stop flight , just a short layover in Dallas.

 

[Pacer]

Little on the early side, but I'm down.

 

[fireball]

I have been checking pretty consistently and nonstop round-trip flights seem to be staying right around 4 to 450.

I figured we could wait a few more weeks see if they come down at all before booking.

 

[fireball]

Gary if you want to drive a stock Sequoia on the trail you can tow my 74 out there with the wife's Sequoia! It's an '06 with 265/70/17 BFG KO2. Might need to take the running boards off and add some sliders!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

This thread inspired me to do the trail again this past week along with the Rincon spur.

So Phil I've got to ask, are you aware of the legal status of the Rincon Trail?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

So Phil I've got to ask, are you aware of the legal status of the Rincon Trail?

Open nothing we saw indicated otherwise

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Open nothing we saw indicated otherwise

Understood. Fwiw:
Hole In the Rock....best week of my life, hands down.
Hole In the Rock....best week of my life, hands down.
Hole In the Rock....best week of my life, hands down.

But you can skip the dialogue and get the latest here:
Expedition Utah

The Rincon Trail is closed per the GCNRA and we (those working to try and get it back on a map) do ask that you steer clear of the trail unless you're the next Malheur/Bundy type occupation champion*. The position of the GCNRA is that it is your job to ensure you are on a route shown as open on their map, "didn't see the sign" won't stop a ticket. The position of the County is that you pay your own ticket and don't ask them to come to your defense, they acknowledge it's been closed on paper for over 25 years.

*And no, we don't want want an armed occupation on this trail any more than the Fed does. However if you're knowingly running a closed trail given the situations happening in SE Utah (see Beef Basin National Monument activity) I would hope you're putting an equal amount of time and effort into working with the County/State to get the Fed to add this back on the map and can offer some updates on how we can help keep the momentum behind the effort.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Understood. Fwiw:
Hole In the Rock....best week of my life, hands down.
Hole In the Rock....best week of my life, hands down.
Hole In the Rock....best week of my life, hands down.

But you can skip the dialogue and get the latest here:
Expedition Utah

The Rincon Trail is closed per the GCNRA and we (those working to try and get it back on a map) do as they you steer clear of the trail unless you're the Malheur/Bundy type occupation champion* . The position of the GCNRA is that it is your job to ensure you are on a route shown as open on their map, "didn't see the sign" won't stop a ticket.

*And no, we don't want want an armed occupation on this trail any more than the Fed does. However if you're knowingly running a closed trail given the situations happening in SE Utah (see Beef Basin National Monument activity) I would hope you're putting an equal amount of time and effort into working with the County/State to get the Fed to add this back on the map and can offer some updates on how we can help keep the momentum behind the effort.

Im a rules player
Posting notice at the trail entrance kiosk (air down spot) would be suggested
Alhough there was signage on the trail nothing about closed anywhere

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Im a rules player
Posting notice at the trail entrance kiosk (air down spot) would be suggested
Alhough there was signage on the trail nothing about closed anywhere

I totally agree, they don't seem to eager to educate but quick to enforce and even quicker to cite this as a reason to point the finger at "rogue OHV users". I am confident that if the trail head spur were easier to access, they would build a tank trap in front of it and add fencing like they are doing in other places within the GCNRA and GSENM road closures, 20 years later and GSENM closures are still trickling down the chain and onto the ground . The area GCNRA Rec Planner has never even been on that parcel of land (the last ~40% of the HITR Trail is on GCNRA rather than BLM). The GCNRA has posted it at the spur on a handful of occasions via some simple carsonite (verified by users, they certainly were not there when I ran it in 2006 so I too assumed good to go. Others were ticketed and they ramped up the heat when the EIS process started in 2009), I can only speculate where those end up but the bottom of the lake may have a few given the hostility that is taking place in that neck of the woods.

This is a bit older but the local commissioners themselves were ridding the place of signage
Removal of signs adding fuel to Kane-BLM feud

This happened last year:
County commissioner found guilty in illegal ATV protest ride | KSL.com

And then this just this year:
Utah Sheriffs Threaten To Arrest Rangers If They Try To Close Public Lands | WBHM 90.3

These are just a few examples of the County/State vs. Fed road battle going on in that area. Add the recent Malheur and Bundy Ranch situations and everyone is on egg-shells down there to do anything but stand back and wait.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...We can spend the first 4 days running HITR, including a nice hike down to Lake Powell at the end. After HITR, if the weather is looking good, head up over bears ears (9,000' elevation) and make our way down into beef basin and onto canyonlands. Exit through elephant hill cross the needles district into Lockhart basin, finally making it back out to Moab. This would be a full on 8 days.

Hey guys, I just caught up on this thread after posting above (and I hate to be the dude that drops bad news but perhaps it safes you an expensive ticket?). I spend a few weeks+ a year down in this next of the woods so a couple thoughts if you don't mind.

It looks like you're planning to be down there in March, awesome time to be in SE Utah though expect cold (freezing temps) nights and snow, or warm daytime temps and no snow, we just never know Keep an eye on the snowpack come Jan/Feb and you'll get a good idea on your plans and any alternatives you need to make. I've done HITR in January, the snow was a bit sketch on the climb down Grey's Mesa and sent us out a bit early. More importantly to watch is Bears Ears/Elk Ridge. That area can be impassible clear into April-Early May, or passable in January, just depends. We did it Jan 2015 with my 100 and a bone stock 200, no problems to the pass, pushing snow as we dropped into Beef Basin, no problem we were headed downhill right. We still had to make it through the park and out Elephant Hill which turned out to be the worst part with the ice/snow and required winching.

...If the weather isn't cooperating, we can do maze district, entering via poisen springs, destined for sunset pass.

As of current Poison Springs is impassible, like major earth work needed to clear a massive rockfall. The County/BLM have it on their radar but as of late September it wasn't open and things like this can take some time. A call to the County & BLM might light a bit of a fire but plan accordingly.

On that note, permits. Elephant Hill now requires day-use permits just to travel through Beef Basin into the part and out E-Hill, it's lame and we (EU and U4WDA) commented against it but it was almost a forgone conclusion imo. That permit is easy to get BUT "Group size is limited to three vehicles... Groups must be separated by 30 minutes of travel time." Likewise the Maze, overnight camping requires a permit, they are fairly easy to get particularly during the colder months. You will need a permit for each campsite which allows 3 vehicles/9ppl, so for a bigger group make sure to choose a route/camping location that has more than 1 site. Fwiw Flint Seep allows 5 vehicles/16ppl but generally isn't a preferred campsite particularly if you come in from Poison Springs

...If the weather is absolutely shocking, we can fall back to Moab...

Or head into the Swell, for the most part the southern Swell and even most of the northern Swell as passable year round and are just as remote and scenic too! Something along these lines: San Rafael Swell Discovery Route (North & South Swell). The best part of the Swell, no permits (yet, it's on the radar for a National Monument which will inevitably mean more paperwork and route closures)

Hope that is of some help!

 

[Pacer]

Thanks for the insight Kurt, Drew, Phil!

 

[Crusha]

Hey guys, I just caught up on this thread after posting above (and I hate to be the dude that drops bad news but perhaps it safes you an expensive ticket?). I spend a few weeks+ a year down in this next of the woods so a couple thoughts if you don't mind.

All input is welcome, and encouraged, especially from anyone familiarized with the area.

 

[Dirty Koala]

This is great info, thank you for taking the time to share you knowledge with us.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

This is great info, thank you for taking the time to share you knowledge with us.

No prob, let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[smittycrusher]

From our HITR trip last month.

Smitty

 

[concretejungle]

Was their reason for closing the Rincon just because of safety or because of other reasons?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Was their reason for closing the Rincon just because of safety or because of other reasons?

The same reasons thousands of miles of roads have been closed on federally managed lands. Resource protection, management limitations, user conflicts, Wilderness & WSA designation, wildlife, etc. The Rincon closure happened in the late 70's and even their own current rec planner can't tell you why but I surmise it was an effort to reduce management needs and minimize OHV opportunities within GCNRA which is aimed at Boat & PWC opportunities.

Glen Canyon NRA just released the new OHV travel plan (Friday) after several years of work... I've not had a minute to crawl through it yet but I'm expecting more limitations.
NPS PEPC - Off-Road Vehicle Management Plan / Final Environmental Impact Statement

 

[cruiseroutfit]

And another update, Poison Springs Canyon was open again as of early Dec. We had a great trip through that area