Unobtainium (13 Viewers)

[Living in the Past]

Well, cost is quite high.

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Interesting an neighbor was having his A/C looked at. Was talking to him about HVAC in general. He said because of the low demand the price was dropping on R12. Can't tell looking if the box is a 30# or 15#. They say they are also selling 12 oz and 30#. Doesn't matter as wouldn't buy a #15 or #30 at that price. I'm an old retired A/C tech and have some R12 already as well as R22 and R134a. I had been in the field for years before all this crap started. I never bothered to test for automotive but have a universal stationary certificate. With that I can still buy refrigerant. 2009 bought a new split system heat pump and a straight cool mini split. Both are R22. Mini was at a parts house where there selling them off cheap. Killed me to pay $200 for a #30 drum of R22. Hoping I won't need to ever buy any R401a which is already being phased out.

 

[aquatech3]

Really have no idea of the current price.



I have no where near as much as your dad and if I started having a bunch of leaks I could have a issue. But until then will continue to run it.





Good chance your evaporator will have an R12 TXV. They is designed to meter R12. Haven't researched it but heard R134a is going to be phased out. If so would stock up on R134a. never dealt with converting from R12 to R134a. But guessing to work the best your going to need to address the meter devise. Years ago converted some large stationary equipment from R500 to R22. Those could change the power head on the TXV and couple pins inside. But something this small going need to change the devise. Each refrigerant has it's own characteristics. The power head is charged with the refrigerant it is metering.

I will have to research this a little more. From what others have told me on their R12 systems (not the Clardy unit) they have just vacuumed the system out and put R134 in and that’s it. Thanks for the tip

 

[cruiserdan]

You also need to change the fittings and add PAG oil so you don't wipe out the compressor.

I will have to research this a little more. From what others have told me on their R12 systems (not the Clardy unit) they have just vacuumed the system out and put R134 in and that’s it. Thanks for the tip

 

[Living in the Past]

I will have to research this a little more. From what others have told me on their R12 systems (not the Clardy unit) they have just vacuumed the system out and put R134 in and that’s it. Thanks for the tip

Since your compressor is going to be for a R134a system to start with unless it is really old like the evaporator you most the way there. Like Dan mentioned fittings on the compressor, oil and some seal would need to be addressed. If your evaporator has a TXV not sure how well it will track a different refrigerant. The power head which has a tube and sensing bulb on the end adjust the flow of refrigerant into the evaporator base on the temperature of the suction line coming out of the evaporator. I know on stationary equipment in residential homes they were switching a piston which make adjustments. This was in the eighties and I switched to commercial shop. Later moved to a government job. Really didn't paid attention to resident units after that other than my own home. If you have a piston which goes by many names depending on the manufacturer could just change that.to one for R134a. TXV would work but probably not as well with a different refrigerant.

 

[aquatech3]

You also need to change the fittings and add PAG oil so you don't wipe out the compressor.

Everything I will be installing will be new from vintage air and will be for a R134a system the only original component will be the evaporator core in the cab so that is the only thing I will have to flush out before recharging. From what I am reading it should be fairly simple once I determine if the expansion valve can be used with the new refrigerant which so far my research shows that it can be used with no problem.

 

[fjc-man]

I used to be a Mercedes tech. I started with them in 1978. I believe it was late 80s early 90s we started doing 134A conversions. Typically when an A/C repair required opening the system up. Along with the repair ie, a leak, expansion valve problem, bad compressor, it would have the oil changed out for PAG oil, a134A compatible receiver/drier and whatever o-rings that were exposed during the repair. Then evacuate and recharge the system. For 134A we had a Freon handler that would filter the purged Freon and it would be reused. I thought the cooling efficiency difference between the two types was barely noticeable. Don’t let me forget to mention the 134A service valves that would screw onto the existing valves. No big deal. I don’t remember the conversion ever being a problem.

 

[fj40ingkc]

Hey @Racer65 , have you ever looked into power steering heat shield for the gear box or for that matter power steering boxes/ casings? I know if we get one from Toyota, we can make parts at an iron/steel foundry for reasonable prices. The cost is aluminum dies for The lost wax positives. Anyway just a thought

 

[Landpimp]

Hey city racer, have you ever looked into power steering heat shield for the gear box or for that matter power steering boxes? I know if we get one from Toyota, we can make parts at an iron/steel foundry for reasonable prices. The cost is aluminum dies for The lost wax positives. Anyway just a thought

power steering boxes(empty cases) are available from Toyota, you just need to add the guts from a mini truck(solid axle) PS box...and bingo you have a OEM Fj40 PS box. I am fairly certain I re-used my heat shield from the manual box for the PS box

 

[Braden620]

Hey city racer, have you ever looked into power steering heat shield for the gear box or for that matter power steering boxes? I know if we get one from Toyota, we can make parts at an iron/steel foundry for reasonable prices. The cost is aluminum dies for The lost wax positives. Anyway just a thought

You can now cast using the 3d print "lost wax" style. You just lose a little filament each time instead of wax.

 

[fj40ingkc]

You can now cast using the 3d print "lost wax" style. You just lose a little filament each time instead of wax.

Exactly to make mold from original casing may be good to scan and recreate etc

 

[thecrazygreek]

Casting sheet metal (type) parts is very tricky.
You could 3D print the die forms and then use a hydraulic press to generate the shape. 20 gauge maybe 18 would be doable for a home brewed set up.

Aluminum would be a great material as it’s more ply-able and you could get more stamps out of your dies.
But I would guess there’s something already out there that might fit the bill.

Personally I would create the shield from fiberglass/ resin, with an aluminum skin added. Cast-able, and effective.

 

[fj40ingkc]

Casting sheet metal (type) parts is very tricky.
You could 3D print the die forms and then use a hydraulic press to generate the shape. 20 gauge maybe 18 would be doable for a home brewed set up.

Aluminum would be a great material as it’s more ply-able and you could get more stamps out of your dies.
But I would guess there’s something already out there that might fit the bill.

Personally I would create the shield from fiberglass/ resin, with an aluminum skin added. Cast-able, and effective.

Hi @thecrazygreek The gearbox casing was what I was looking into lost wax casting. The heatshield your right is much better to be stamped, trick is I can’t find a low enough priced original to start the project… there is new old stock one on eBay from a nice guy but it’s same cost as power steering box…

 

[POTATO LAUNCHER]

If you guys haven't driven the electric power steering Roger offers I highly recommend it. I had the opportunity to spend some trail time behind the wheel of a 79 FJ55 that belongs to Classic Cruisers recently. It is spot on with no quirkiness. Road feel is excellent. Not too soft or twitchy, it is perfectly balanced for the road and off road it has a good feel.
Definitely changed my mind on future options when it comes to power steering conversions.

 

[fj40ingkc]

@POTATO LAUNCHER Do the purists ding you for electric? I have Manual currently. But arranging for conversion to power. Never had the pleasure of driving my 40 but I’d imagine with all the linkage and joints there is a bit of play, even if all new joints. Regardless, that’s what I figured I’d start with to make it as factory as original. Only issue is price, a re-occurring issue with these fj parts.

 

[Braden620]

Hi @thecrazygreek The gearbox casing was what I was looking into lost wax casting. The heatshield your right is much better to be stamped, trick is I can’t find a low enough priced original to start the project… there is new old stock one on eBay from a nice guy but it’s same cost as power steering box…

Are the OE heat shields rare? Maybe I need to dig one out and put it on. Since they are relatively flat I would think a guy could fab a functional shield up pretty easily.

 

[fj40ingkc]

@Braden620 Pming you

 

[POTATO LAUNCHER]

Replacing or adjusting your factory steering components will improve steering everytime. TRE's, draglink, center link, old stiff steering stabilizer and a loose sector shaft will directly effect how your steering functions. Adding any power steering without addressing the above mentioned parts will not be as effective or efficient.
Sure the cost is high but when you balance the amount of labor involved with Saginaw, FJ60 or Mini power assist type conversions the simplicity of adding the electric will be cheaper in the long run. Not to mention having to add a pump and source hoses. Assuming you do the work yourself it really is similar cost wise but time involved is greatly reduced with the electric conversion.
Opening the "purist" can of worms now. I respect anyone that wants to keep it as original as possible, nothing wrong with that. However, tasteful upgrades such as steering, brakes, tires, shocks, even AC make old vehicles safer and more comfortable to drive. That is what they are meant to do, drive and enjoy them as often as possible. Otherwise they sit stagnant looking pretty.

 

[fj40ingkc]

Are the OE heat shields rare? Maybe I need to dig one out and put it on. Since they are relatively flat I would think a guy could fab a functional shield up pretty easily.

Replacing or adjusting your factory steering components will improve steering everytime. TRE's, draglink, center link, old stiff steering stabilizer and a loose sector shaft will directly effect how your steering functions. Adding any power steering without addressing the above mentioned parts will not be as effective or efficient.
Sure the cost is high but when you balance the amount of labor involved with Saginaw, FJ60 or Mini power assist type conversions the simplicity of adding the electric will be cheaper in the long run. Not to mention having to add a pump and source hoses. Assuming you do the work yourself it really is similar cost wise but time involved is greatly reduced with the electric conversion.
Opening the "purist" can of worms now. I respect anyone that wants to keep it as original as possible, nothing wrong with that. However, tasteful upgrades such as steering, brakes, tires, shocks, even AC make old vehicles safer and more comfortable to drive. That is what they are meant to do, drive and enjoy them as often as possible. Otherwise they sit stagnant looking pretty.

@POTATO LAUNCHER Love the thinking, thanks for the input. on that note if you know anyone with minitruck box I'm interested. agreed the steering would be much better as electric. I am on the fence. Either way the OE PS system is becoming UNOBTANIUM both by $$'s wise and scarcity of parts,,, electric is inevitable unless we make a casting mold!

 

[softdrinkviking]

Yes I will be installing it using all new under hood components from vintage air and charging it with 134A.

In case this information got buried or not completely explained in the previous comments:

The reason that a "conversion" must be done for 134A is that the material used for o-rings and gaskets in older R12 systems will soften and leak in the presence of 134A. There are some older ACs which may contain internal seals in the compressors or expansion valve assemblies that are non-trivial to replace, but most systems made from the late-80s onward are easily convertible by switching the sealing o-rings out for the new ones (which are green in color to indicate 134A compatibility). Of course, the actual refrigerant and oil also need to be replaced. When I did it, I also used the citrus flush that is commonly available to rid all parts of the system of the old stuff, and blew everything out with compressed air and let them sit in a dry place for a week before reassembly. I did it on a 1990 BMW 325i. The whole swap took me a few days, and at least one of those days was spent figuring out how to reinstall the blower fan. Friggin BMW engineers are masochists.

 

[Pat4wd]

Well, cost is quite high.

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Holy Crap, I have a full 30lb of 12 right now. Maybe not for long..lol