Two pumps to make front brakes work??

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Thanks guys. Yes, the CCOT kit includes the larger diameter wheel cylinders. I have run three quarts of brake fluid through. Will pick up another can today. The wife is off for three days this weekend and so, weather permitting, we will bleed again tomorrow. I agree with Pin Head, this is the best way to do it. My Mity-Vac didn't do well at all when I was bleeding the red one, but I was successful with the hose and jar. Curiously, and better, on the '79 the rear wheel cylinders are linked, one bleeder for two cylinders.
 
After a bout of pneumonia(!?!) my wife and I ran two more quarts of brake fluid through the '70. All I have accomplished is validating Einsteins theory of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. There is no fluid leakage, no drop in the master cylinder. But once I have bled all eight cylinders I have 1) crappy pedal that pumps up good in two or three pumps, 2) bubbles as soon as I repeat the bleeding process. No change in the amount of bubbles, just will have bubbles like I hadn't bled it before.
 
I have not. It is dark outside now, but with the vehicle now up on the concrete patio, out of the sand/mud, I removed the nipples and wrapped with yellow teflon. When I drop the wife off at the bus stop in the morning I'll pick up yet another can of brake fluid. In reviewing the FSM I see no difference noted to what I'm doing. The FSM doesn't specify a sequence, I have always used farthest to closest to the master cylinder. The FSM does specify the hose in the jar, opening the bleeder, pumping slowly and closing the bleeder with the pedal depressed. Since one line "T's" to feed both cylinders per wheel, I see no reason not to install two hoses and bleed both cylinders at a time. And since I'll be back to one man bleeding that is what I will do. Fingers crossed I will not be repeating Einsteins theory of insanity.
 
You are correct about the bleeding sequence, but just to be sure.(I note you are from Equador), this means LHD starts a at the right rear & RHD starts at the left year.

And I know what you mean about that theory...we all get caught up in that sometimes.

John
 
Semper Fi McVicker, USMC TET Offensive, 1968.
It is LHD down here as well. Biggest difference is they use the white dotted line for guidance turning a three lane highway into two.
 
If you can pump them up to a solid pedal, and it will hold pressure, you likely have a bad residual valve. With CCOT parts, I'm not surprised. You'd have to ask them if it's even serviceable. Toyota (Aisin) masters it is easily serviceable and inexpensive.

It could also be the adjustment on the cylinders themselves, but it seems you already did that. (?)
 
No change today, drat. The master cylinder is Aisan. Not sure what the "58" on the front side of the barrel means. It is a single stage master cylinder. There is no leakdown. So I adjusted all shoes to solid on the drums, lots of fun with the front cylinders on the front. With the vehicle on jackstands it is much easier to address the bleeding since I can work over the top of the drum instead of crawling under the car. I used two hoses, one on each cylinder and pumped slowly five times. That uses about 2/3 the reservoir capacity. Bleed nipple threads are yellow teflon sealed. And zero change. Pedal goes to the floor, pumps up in two or three pumps to a good feeling pedal. I have NEVER liked these brakes, they have always been a two/three pump setup to feel like you are going to stop. Consequently I have always had to drive slower in traffic and attempt to maintain more distance. I say attempt because if there is room in front of me some crazy will stick his car in there. I used this exact same procedure on the '79 and it took one trip around the car to have good brakes and have needed no further attention. One thing nice about the '79 having FJ45 front brakes is that you can actually adjust the front/front cylinders. Not so on the '70 which requires removing the drum and adjusting until you can just force the drum onto the hub.
 
First, the 58 on the cylinder means it's a 5/8" diameter cylinder.

Second, I will say again to check the torque on the front wheel bearing.
 
cuencanolenny said:
Yes, the CCOT kit includes the larger diameter wheel cylinders.
Click to expand...

If you are talking about the inner diameter, this may be your problem. You can't fool with the diameter of the hydraulics without changing the brake dynamics. The stock cylinders are chosen to match the diameter and stroke of the master cylinder. Larger diameter means more volume requiring a larger diameter master.
 
Cylinder diameters could affect performance, but they shouldn't force you to pump 2-3 times every time you need to stop.

After you pump it up, how long before you have to pump it up again? Is it instant, or does it maintain pressure for some time? 5 seconds? Longer?

I'm almost sure it's the residual valve...
 
He could be on to something here. If you have a 5/8" master cylinder, and larger calip
Pin_Head said:
If you are talking about the inner diameter, this may be your problem. You can't fool with the diameter of the hydraulics without changing the brake dynamics. The stock cylinders are chosen to match the diameter and stroke of the master cylinder. Larger diameter means more volume requiring a larger diameter master.
Click to expand...

He could be on to something here. If you have a 5/8" master cylinder, and larger calipers, your master will not be pushing the volume needed to press the calipers. You might need the larger 1" master found on V6 trucks, and I think most 1990-95 trucks.
 
That makes sense. When I ordered the parts over three years ago I saw that the CCOT site indicated that the "correct" cylinders were no longer available and they had upgraded to the 1 1/8" cylinders. The FSM states the master cylinder should be 1" cylinder bore, the front cylinders should be 1 1/8" bore and the rear cylinders should be 1". So if the 58 on the master cylinder barrel means 5/8" I have a pile of crap on my hands and that is why the brakes have always sucked.
 
cuencanolenny said:
That makes sense. When I ordered the parts over three years ago I saw that the CCOT site indicated that the "correct" cylinders were no longer available and they had upgraded to the 1 1/8" cylinders. The FSM states the master cylinder should be 1" cylinder bore, the front cylinders should be 1 1/8" bore and the rear cylinders should be 1". So if the 58 on the master cylinder barrel means 5/8" I have a pile of crap on my hands and that is why the brakes have always sucked.
Click to expand...
Yes :(
 
These Land Cruisers are like the old International Harvester pickup trucks. You have to know at what time on what day the rig was built to know what equipment they bought from GM, Ford or Chrysler to build with that day.
 
This is the kit I bought. Note that the change in rear cylinders goes from dual action to single action, that the master cylinder is listed as an OEM Toyota part.

Brake Kit '61 to 7/'70 - 2 FREE Brake Shoe Return Spring Kits - OEM M/C
  • Fits FJ40 BJ40 FJ45 FJ55
  • Kit Includes
  • FREE Brake Shoe Spring Kit (2 axle)
  • 8 wheel Cylinders
  • 8 Brake Shoes
  • 1 TOYOTA - OEM - Master Cylinder
$498.71
BRKIT-6970
 
This is the same issue I'm having with my '74 Fj40 with drums all around. My master has front and rear reservoirs...is this the right brake master for this application? I've bled and adjusted and still no good front brakes until the 2nd pump on the brake pedal...
 
The dual reservoir master cylinder is a definite improvement, especially with brakes that suck. Now if a "failure" occurs you will have either front or rear brakes anyway. My '79 (I have sold the '70) has drums all around, however, it has power brakes. The front brakes are FJ45 which is larger diameter and a wider shoe as well. I have no problem with them.
 
trex said:
This is the same issue I'm having with my '74 Fj40 with drums all around. My master has front and rear reservoirs...is this the right brake master for this application? I've bled and adjusted and still no good front brakes until the 2nd pump on the brake pedal...
Click to expand...

Your shoes aren't adjusted tight enough. Adjust another click & go for another test. Do it again if you have to.

I adjust the shoes until they are barely touching. Adjust, go for a several mile test drive WITHOUT using the brakes. Roll to a stop...w/o using the brakes. If the hubs feel warm...not hot...I'm good.

John
 
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