ARCHIVE Tuning the 1FZFE powered 80-series (1 Viewer)

[Bearcat80]

I'm hoping you can do a setup for the 93-94 as well- the possible mileage gains would be bigger.....

 

[NKP Garage]

I'm hoping you can do a setup for the 93-94 as well- the possible mileage gains would be bigger.....

It's quite a bit of work to setup the plug and play setup and the various tunes. If there is at least 5 people that are 100% ready to get the setup, we can do it for the 93/94 as well.

 

[SM Racing]

Cobb AP? That isn't a standalone it is simply a reflash. The OEM code is hacked by the developers, at Cobb a lot of it was done by a guy named Thistle. Once the OEM code is hacked your programmer changes the code via a reflash to the values you want. The stock ECU stays in place. Only problem is no one has hacked the Toyota ECU, so reflashing this way is not possible.

Now a stand alone is exactly that, it stands alone no OEM computer and it runs everything. This gives you the most flexibility but has a lot of added cost and is difficult with the 80 since it uses a separate TCU.

Fair enough, I can, through a controller, reflash the stock ECU, I am not intercepting (Secrets) signals from certain sensors, and then sending out (Lies) to the ECU so it does what I am wanting it to do. This isn't the way to tune an engine.

So the piggyback is the best solution, it gives you control of all the things you need, actually the FI/C 8 gives you control of much more than you need. What about it gives you any concern? Why would it effect hot or cold start? That's part of the map that there is no reason to touch? The part of the map that's been touched up is the high RPM, WOT, Open loop that has the car running richer than 10:1. Transmission function is done by the TCU? I think you need to rethink what you mean when you say you can really tune something. 9/10 times when you are tuning something all you are doing is tricking the computer to believe what you want it to believe. Common example is MAF housings, in turbo cars it is very easy to saturate the stock MAF signal, so larger housings are swapped in, so you get the same amount of air at a lower voltage and then "tune" the computer for that signal. This is exactly what Cobb AP does for their larger MAF Housings.

Its not the best solution, it is currently the only solution that normal people can afford. When I am tuning a car via Hondata, I am not tricking the computer into doing anything. I am rewriting the sections of the map to the values I want, the computer isn't altered data from the sensors. This is the case with an FIC, AFC, SAFC, etc. So I am concerned with how the FIC interacts with the stock ECU. Back in the day when people used SAFCs and VAFCs to tune boosted Hondas, they used to pop motors, because the stock ECU saw all the extra fuel and thought the engine was cold. In the stock map, a cold start requires extra SPARK. Way more spark than a boosted motor needed to see.

This is one of the things that I wonder about when using an FIC. I am telling the computer to do a certain thing through the lies coming out of the FIC, the computer is reading those lies and doing something that may or may not be what we want. Can you see why I might have some concerns about using a secrets and lies box to run a boosted engine?

 

[lilevo]

So I am concerned with how the FIC interacts with the stock ECU. Back in the day when people used SAFCs and VAFCs to tune boosted Hondas, they used to pop motors, because the stock ECU saw all the extra fuel and thought the engine was cold. In the stock map, a cold start requires extra SPARK. Way more spark than a boosted motor needed to see.

This makes no sense.

The motors popped because an AFC does nothing for timing control. All it does is add fuel. When you boost an n/a motor you need to pull timing. Usually you start with one degree of retard per one degree of boost.

The FIC is nearly the perfect solution. For example, it intercepts the cam and crank signal, delays it, and that is how timing is retarded. The stock ecu receives that signal and that's that.

 

[scottryana]

I am on my phone so I am not going to write a long reply. Yes I will agree with you it is not the "best" but I am not spending $10k on a Motec system and another $2k on a transmission control unit. And I bet no one else would either. So of the options available for an 80, from hide your head in the sand and do nothing like Toyota did with their super charger and the above $12k solution, this is the best working solution at an affordable price point.

Now lets go back to your Hondata example. And use my MAF saturation example. In Hondata and Cobb once you change the MAF size now you have to go in and tell the computer the new signal is now a different value of air. Not much different than intercepting the signal and sending a different reading. As long as its an intercept and not a tap In a tap you have the ability for the computer to see the old signal if say the piggy back died, causing potential issues. In an intercept the piggy back dies the stock ECU doesn't get a signal just like losing a sensor.

 

[diamondfj]

I am very interested in an option for a '94.

 

[Bearcat80]

It's quite a bit of work to setup the plug and play setup and the various tunes. If there is at least 5 people that are 100% ready to get the setup, we can do it for the 93/94 as well.

Put me down as customer #2. And as far as I am concerned the only map you need is economy.

 

[SM Racing]

This makes no sense.

The motors popped because an AFC does nothing for timing control. All it does is add fuel. When you boost an n/a motor you need to pull timing. Usually you start with one degree of retard per one degree of boost.

The FIC is nearly the perfect solution. For example, it intercepts the cam and crank signal, delays it, and that is how timing is retarded. The stock ecu receives that signal and that's that.

The stock ECU handled adding the extra timing. It was seeing the extra fuel being added by the "lies" coming out of the VAFC. You are correct the VAFC doesn't control timing, but since it tricked the stock ECU into adding more fuel, the stock ECU would compensate for that extra fuel by adding timing. There is no way on a Honda to mechanically adjust timing (beyond a few degrees at the dizzy), so the only way to radically alter the timing curve for a boosted engine is to rewrite the code in the ECU.

I am on my phone so I am not going to write a long reply. Yes I will agree with you it is not the "best" but I am not spending $10k on a Motec system and another $2k on a transmission control unit. And I bet no one else would either. So of the options available for an 80, from hide your head in the sand and do nothing like Toyota did with their super charger and the above $12k solution, this is the best working solution at an affordable price point.

I get that part. Doesn't alleviate my concerns about using a secrets and lies box to alter what the stock ECU sees, in turn hoping it does the right thing. That is why I am asking these important questions.

Now lets go back to your Hondata example. And use my MAF saturation example. In Hondata and Cobb once you change the MAF size now you have to go in and tell the computer the new signal is now a different value of air. Not much different than intercepting the signal and sending a different reading. As long as its an intercept and not a tap In a tap you have the ability for the computer to see the old signal if say the piggy back died, causing potential issues. In an intercept the piggy back dies the stock ECU doesn't get a signal just like losing a sensor.

Except in that example, you are actually adjusting the values referenced but the original ECU software. You aren't sending out the lies to the ECU to get it to do something different than the original programming in the software says it should be doing.

I get that the current best solution is an FIC, but I still want to know how well it is working in reality and for an extended period of time. We build our Land Cruisers to last hundreds of thousands of miles and they need to work in the most remote places in the world, everytime. Hence the reason I am asking these questions.

I hope this is a fully reliable solution that will allow me to do exactly what I want my boosted Cruiser to do.

 

[NKP Garage]

SM Racing. What you're failing to understand is that the AEM unit we are using actually drives the injectors. It is not tricking the ECU by modifying the MAF signals like the SAFC/VAFC devices you're referring to. We will be doing extensive testing with this setup on various Land Cruisers.

 

[SM Racing]

Ok, that is fair enough. As I stated, I am not familiar with the FIC. I didn't realize it controlled the injectors from the AEM. Thanks for filling in a couple of blanks. Thanks for explaining it better.

 

[scottryana]

Yeah I think that the longest this has been in use on the 80 is about a week so no one will have any longevity info, but I am hopeful. The unit looks nicer than the AEM's of old. Another option if you are in Australia is the Haltech Interceptor, I am not sure it is made still, but I think it has the same function as the FIC-8, with maybe a little more of the precieved robustness of the Haltech line.

* actually reading up on the interceptor it isn't as good as the FIC/8

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

I am interested in a 94 solution too. But my wallet is screaming "No Mas! NO MAS!!!" after all the money I have been dumping into my vehicles lately.

So pricing would be good to know. I mean, the performance tune in my GTI costs like $600 for someone to install a map in the ecu. So, I got fears

 

[NKP Garage]

I am interested in a 94 solution too. But my wallet is screaming "No Mas! NO MAS!!!" after all the money I have been dumping into my vehicles lately.

So pricing would be good to know. I mean, the performance tune in my GTI costs like $600 for someone to install a map in the ecu. So, I got fears

Price is already posted on our website for the plug and play untuned unit for people who want to tune the unit themselves. Pricing will be the same for the pre-tuned units. http://www.emspowered.com/storefron...ct_info&cPath=61_119_120_312&products_id=1151

 

[zoomzoomzoom]

Hi Folks,

First post to this forum. I'd be interested if it proves a saft option. I have been looking at adding a Wolf v550 ECU install and having it control the auto transmission, LPG and fuel. Unfortunately to do that it will cost around $5k (ECU install, dyno maps and shift pattern). Not an option at the moment, at least until I can also afford a turbo upgrade.

Anyway to my question. I have a 1994 OBD1 80 series auto. Just had EMER SVI LPG installed (with its own ECU). Will your solution work with my LPG system?

regards,
zzz

 

[zoomzoomzoom]

baktasht,

I'd +1 a solution that allows me to also remove the existing MAF in my 1994 80 series.

zzz

 

[mtnman412]

Baktasht, have the power and economy tunes for the 95-97 been finalized? Thanks!

 

[yotaslave]

Any plans of messing with E85 tunes? Might be a benefit to the boosted crowd.

 

[NKP Garage]

Hi Folks,

First post to this forum. I'd be interested if it proves a saft option. I have been looking at adding a Wolf v550 ECU install and having it control the auto transmission, LPG and fuel. Unfortunately to do that it will cost around $5k (ECU install, dyno maps and shift pattern). Not an option at the moment, at least until I can also afford a turbo upgrade.

Anyway to my question. I have a 1994 OBD1 80 series auto. Just had EMER SVI LPG installed (with its own ECU). Will your solution work with my LPG system?

regards,
zzz

I'm not 100% sure how your LPG system is setup. So I do not know whether this will work with your LPG system or not. PM or email me details of your system and how it is setup and we can discuss further. baktasht@emspowered.com

baktasht,

I'd +1 a solution that allows me to also remove the existing MAF in my 1994 80 series.

zzz

OUR FIC8 Plug-n-play ECU kit allows removal of the MAF.

Baktasht, have the power and economy tunes for the 95-97 been finalized? Thanks!

The Economy tune is finalized. We are still working on the power tune.

Any plans of messing with E85 tunes? Might be a benefit to the boosted crowd.

Yes, we can definitely set it up for E85.

 

[baggar11]

Anymore testing results from the gas mileage tune?

 

[lilevo]

I would be interested in hearing how that turns out. There isn't any long term, effective way to change the factory ecu closed loop fueling parameters without a stand-alone ecu.