truck felt unstable after being lifted (2 Viewers)

[euro400]

Old bushings will make the truck feel loose too. Have you changed the suspension bushings? Also check wheel bearing play.
Did you buy the ICON kit through Delta VS?

I’m certain the shop changes the bushings. I can ask them again. I bought the kit through Icon directly.

 

[euro400]

The shop installed the icon caster bushings.


These bushings from Icon have amazing installation instructions and come with a template. I kind of doubt the shop installed them wrong.





To the OP, like others have posted try and get the alignment printout and post it up. Your alignment specs could very well be in range but the bigger tires and different suspension can exaggerate worn bushings. If I were you I would think about replacing all of the suspension bushings.

Based on your comment about the rear end I would also recommend looking into a rear pan hard drop bracket and adjustable front panhard bar.

Goodluck

Thanks. I will post the alignment print out once I get it. I’ll have the shop look into the bushing again and talk w them about the front and rear pan hard drop bracket and bar

 

[euro400]

The caster correction kit from Icon are offset bushings. I wonder if the bushing were installed upside down causing the caster to be way off.
View attachment 2621344

I doubt that this shop installed these incorrectly. They are well known and work on Italian and other exotics.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

I’m certain the shop changes the bushings. I can ask them again. I bought the kit through Icon directly.

I believe @Rusty Marlin is referring to the other suspension bushings on the truck, not the icon bushings. The icon kit only comes with caster correction bushings that go between the control arms and front axle. There are two of these on each side that the shop would have changed.

That leaves 1 more control arm and frame bushings per side that do not come with the icon kit. These should probably be replaced if they are original. Than you also have sway bar bushings and panhard bushings that should also be changed if they are old. And don't forget about rear control arm and panhard bushings either....

When you lift the vehicle and add bigger tires it will amplify the play in any old dry worn out suspension bushings. ALL of the suspension bushings should all be replaced with new Toyota bushings if they are original.

You probably also need sway bar drop links to get it all back to normal.

 

[on the rocks]

Did you ever call Icon and question them? Keep in mind, just because they offer a "KIT" it doesn't mean it's "complete"., I think this is misleading and many places sell incomplete kits to lift the 80. Many here already pointed you to what is likely wrong. Panhards were not adjusted likely causing bump steer, I did my lift in stages 20 years ago and I seem to recall this, if you look from the rear you will see your axles offset to opposite sides. If your not sure what this is google it, sound like your issue?
If they replaced the radius arms of castor correction did they replace the bushings at the frame mount as well? It's well documented here castor correction bushings are not the best way to go as well. several choices to do it right and get the correct radius arms for the lift. You could go on and on with a 20 YO vehicle.

Other things that "kit" does not offer you will likely need:
Radius arms with new oem bushings, your bushings seem to have got you correct caster but likely will cause other issues down the road so likely short term solution.
Rear adjustable upper and lower arms with oem bushings
Possible DC drive
Rear panhard relocation bracket or adjustable panhard
Front adjustable panhard
LSPV adjustment if Icon did not have this with install instructions.
List goes on and on. but these are major items and minimum for a lift outside wear and tear/ maintenance needs for a 20 YO big fat pig. Especially if you are not original owner and don't know where it's been.

You chose a mechanic that does not specialize in lifted vehicles, they likely did it right but probably don't have the knowledge to understand what all is needed to make it right. Not their fault, they are probably focused on making good money on what they know.
Tons of info here if you search, you co go on for days as it's hard to find everything with a simple search. Quick search I found this. Most is bickering and opinion but if you read through it and use common sense it gets you pointed in the right direction, sometimes lol...

Steering wander with 3" lift

I recently installed a Rocky Road OME 3" lift on my 94 FZJ and am getting noticeable steering wander at highway speeds and the vehicle plus to the right when lifting off throttle; 2860 and 2850J springs, with OME nitrogen shocks and caster adjuster. I have custom tube bumpers with a winch up...

forum.ih8mud.com

HTH, not an expert here by any means...

 

[baldilocks]

I doubt that this shop installed these incorrectly. They are well known and work on Italian and other exotics.

 

[Rusty Marlin]

I believe @Rusty Marlin is referring to the other suspension bushings on the truck, not the icon bushings. The icon kit only comes with caster correction bushings that go between the control arms and front axle. There are two of these on each side that the shop would have changed.

That leaves 1 more control arm and frame bushings per side that do not come with the icon kit. These should probably be replaced if they are original. Than you also have sway bar bushings and panhard bushings that should also be changed if they are old. And don't forget about rear control arm and panhard bushings either....

When you lift the vehicle and add bigger tires it will amplify the play in any old dry worn out suspension bushings. ALL of the suspension bushings should all be replaced with new Toyota bushings if they are original.

You probably also need sway bar drop links to get it all back to normal.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

 

[ATXnative]

When you lift the rear, it also offsets the axle slightly to the passenger side b/c the radius/panhard arm is rotating on an axis. This causes the front and rear tires to want to track differently down the road.. I got the delta rear panhard bracket and it made a noticeable difference

 

[lumbee1]

When you lift the rear, it also offsets the axle slightly to the passenger side b/c the radius/panhard arm is rotating on an axis. This causes the front and rear tires to want to track differently down the road.. I got the delta rear panhard bracket and it made a noticeable difference

Yeah but there are loads of lifted Cruisers without adjustable panhards or panhard lift/drop brackets. I have both but while I wouldn't complain about the driving characteristics without them, they were both beneficial and I wouldn't hesitate to reinstall them again.

 

[ATXnative]

Yeah but there are loads of lifted Cruisers without adjustable panhards or panhard lift/drop brackets. I have both but while I wouldn't complain about the driving characteristics without them, they were both beneficial and I wouldn't hesitate to reinstall them again.

Huh? Yea my point is they are beneficial. The poster want to know how to improve uneasy feeling at back of cruiser...and I suggested a part which does that

 

[graham5david]

To summarize the thread. Correct caster to spec. Correct front and rear axle alignment.
Options for caster correction.
Caster correction Bushings- (already done by your shop ) Need to see your caster numbers to confirm if in specific.

If the caster correction Bushings didn't work you can do one of the following after you put the factory bushings back in.
1. Plates- $75-100. but your next issue will be clearance issues with your steering link and radius arms. Also a slight b@!#ch to install.
2. Frame side radius arm drop brackets- $250 ish. Offered by man a fre (bolt in), iron man (bolt in), and eimkeith (weld in). Easy install.
3. Delta radius arms- 1000ish
4. Superior radius arms 1300ish

Axle alignment Options
1. Adjustable Front and rear panhards
2. Or rear panhard bracket.

 

[euro400]

The shop offered these solutions to correct the issue and then re-align the truck.
Front caster plate kit from Dobinson
Upper and lower adjustable control arms. These are also from dobinson and come w all new bushings.
I also need to clarify that I am a serious off-roader that’s why they didn’t think I need the front Delta V control arms or the rear panhard bracket.

 

[euro400]

That’s the route I am going to go, I hope this will solve my problem. Should I also have them install the rear panhard brackets along w the rear control arms so that I don’t have to go back in and do those again?

 

[graham5david]

On my truck I went with the man a fre drop brackets. And front and rear adjustable pan hard to fix mine. I had caster plates but removed them. They worked fine but I had steering arm clearance issues. I have wheeled mine pretty hard with no issues from "loss of ground clearance " with the brackets. Adjustable panhards really made a difference on mine. You will get it squared away. Or just do like most of us and try all the options to see which one you like.

 

[bajaphile]

Reading your initial post, you're stating that the rear end is feeling unstable and swaying. Nothing about the front end floating. Generally with caster issues, you'll feel it obviously in the front, as it is wandering and you're constantly correcting. You may want to snap some pictures of the rear and post them up to check out...your swaybar still installed? I think most people ran 4-6" lifts without dealing with panhard brackets for years, so not sure that will really help you. (I do recommend adding one though as it does improve ride quality).

The ICON caster correction bushings state they correct caster by 4.6° which would be more than enough for a 3" lift. The shop should give you a printout with caster before dumping more $$ into it blindly. Maybe just take it to a shop to check the alignment, ensure they installed the bushings in correctly. They could have installed 180° off and thrown the caster the opposite way.

 

[BILT4ME]

The shop offered these solutions to correct the issue and then re-align the truck.
Front caster plate kit from Dobinson
Upper and lower adjustable control arms. These are also from dobinson and come w all new bushings.
I also need to clarify that I am a serious off-roader that’s why they didn’t think I need the front Delta V control arms or the rear panhard bracket.

You ARE or ARE NOT a serious off roader?

I got the impression that you are NOT based on you questions and conversation.

If you are NOT, then it's more important to consider the front control arms. Many here say to avoid the adjustable upper and lower rear control arms due to breakage or coming loose.

 

[euro400]

You ARE or ARE NOT a serious off roader?

I got the impression that you are NOT based on you questions and conversation.

If you are NOT, then it's more important to consider the front control arms. Many here say to avoid the adjustable upper and lower rear control arms due to breakage or coming loose.

 

[euro400]

Reading your initial post, you're stating that the rear end is feeling unstable and swaying. Nothing about the front end floating. Generally with caster issues, you'll feel it obviously in the front, as it is wandering and you're constantly correcting. You may want to snap some pictures of the rear and post them up to check out...your swaybar still installed? I think most people ran 4-6" lifts without dealing with panhard brackets for years, so not sure that will really help you. (I do recommend adding one though as it does improve ride quality).

The ICON caster correction bushings state they correct caster by 4.6° which would be more than enough for a 3" lift. The shop should give you a printout with caster before dumping more $$ into it blindly. Maybe just take it to a shop to check the alignment, ensure they installed the bushings in correctly. They could have installed 180° off and thrown the caster the opposite way.

The shop did mentioned today that the caster is out of spec after double checking. He also mentioned that the caster bushing only correct 2”(?) that’s why he recommended the dobinson caster plate.
He did not give me a print out though.

 

[euro400]

You ARE or ARE NOT a serious off roader?

I got the impression that you are NOT based on you questions and conversation.

If you are NOT, then it's more important to consider the front control arms. Many here say to avoid the adjustable upper and lower rear control arms due to breakage or coming loose.

Sorry I didn’t double check what I wrote. I am not a serious off roader. From what I learned from you guys, I may consider getting a second opinion from another shop that specializes in land cruisers in my area like Javier.

 

[euro400]

Reading your initial post, you're stating that the rear end is feeling unstable and swaying. Nothing about the front end floating. Generally with caster issues, you'll feel it obviously in the front, as it is wandering and you're constantly correcting. You may want to snap some pictures of the rear and post them up to check out...your swaybar still installed? I think most people ran 4-6" lifts without dealing with panhard brackets for years, so not sure that will really help you. (I do recommend adding one though as it does improve ride quality).

The ICON caster correction bushings state they correct caster by 4.6° which would be more than enough for a 3" lift. The shop should give you a printout with caster before dumping more $$ into it blindly. Maybe just take it to a shop to check the alignment, ensure they installed the bushings in correctly. They could have installed 180° off and thrown the caster the opposite way.

How could they install the bushing 180 degree off. Like some of members here mentioned the Icon kit came w very good instructions.