Transmission OD intermittent issue (Solved!!)

[JohnMed]

Hi Everyone, I need your help. I have a 2000 lx470 and I am experiencing intermittent issue of OD (4th gear) "not working". The last couple of of times I've driven, after about 20 or 30 miles on highway ( going 60-70mph), I feel a small lurch and the vehicle shifts from 4th to 3rd and then doesn't shift back into 4th. So the rest of the time I drive on highway I am around 3k rpm.

I'll pull over, shut car down for a couple minutes and then drive again but still won't go into 4th. Last time it happened, I disconnected battery for about 10 minutes, still no 4th gear. But if it sits overnight, transmission will function normally again for another 20-30 miles.

OD button is not pressed. I'll then press OD off button, the dash will show "OD Off". I'll press OD button again, dash will turn off light, but still does not shift up to 4th. Below is a video of me driving showing this.

No codes, no CEL. Not sure where to start, perhaps a sensor is failing.

New video by John Medinilla

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Dirt J]

Check out this thread.

Apparently there was a run of OD needle bearings in MY2000 that develop issues.

 

[2001LC]

2000 is the AT, has, the most reported issues. You may need to rebuild or replace it. But I would try a few things first:

1) Full 12 qt flush, with Mobil 1 MV full syn ATF.
2) Make very sure coolant system working properly. Start by reading Engine Coolant Temp (ECT, AKA water temp) through tech stream. Do this from cold start-up up through OD issues. If ECU read ECT below 130F, it will not shift into OD.

 

[JohnMed]

2000 is the AT, has, the most reported issues. You may need to rebuild or replace it. But I would try a few things first:

1) Full 12 qt flush, with Mobil 1 MV full syn ATF.
2) Make very sure coolant system working properly. Start by reading Engine Coolant Temp (ECT, AKA water temp) through tech stream. Do this from cold start-up up through OD issues. If ECU read ECT below 130F, it will not shift into OD.

Thank you for your thoughts!
1) The last 1.5 years, I have been doing the drain and fill method for Transmission Fluid. I use Toyota Type IV and have done about 4 or 5, so the fluid should be pretty as clean as it gets.
2) Coolant system is working well. The ECT goes above 130 very quickly and then stays in the 185-195 range for duration of drive (ambient temp 105f and going 60-70mph on highway).

I have sifted through many of the transmission threads and have seen the "needle bearing" issue come up. My current situation, symptoms, etc don't exactly match right now which is leading the the guessing.

I test drove again this morning, drove on highway for about 12 miles (60-70mph) and transmission was fine, stayed in 4th , turned OD off and back on a couple of times no issues.

FWIW - my LX has 335k miles.

 

[JohnMed]

I wonder the possibility of the O/D Direct Clutch speed sensor perhaps getting faulty?

 

[2001LC]

Thank you for your thoughts!
1) The last 1.5 years, I have been doing the drain and fill method for Transmission Fluid. I use Toyota Type IV and have done about 4 or 5, so the fluid should be pretty as clean as it gets.
2) Coolant system is working well. The ECT goes above 130 very quickly and then stays in the 185-195 range for duration of drive (ambient temp 105f and going 60-70mph on highway).

I have sifted through many of the transmission threads and have seen the "needle bearing" issue come up. My current situation, symptoms, etc don't exactly match right now which is leading the the guessing.

I test drove again this morning, drove on highway for about 12 miles (60-70mph) and transmission was fine, stayed in 4th , turned OD off and back on a couple of times no issues.

FWIW - my LX has 335k miles.

Again, you may need AT R&R or rebuild.

But seems, you're not first giving the AT its best chance to perform as designed.

I've lost count, of how many came to me with AT issues. Many where transmission shop, stated "AT needed R&R or rebuilt.
I always started each to see what's what, with a proper full 12 qt flush. In every case, it solved the issues. I do know of 2000, that reportedly failed. But I did not have hands on.

1. It seems you're, convinced AT fluid is good. I'm not convicent! As you're using Toyota IV ATF, which is not correct fluid for 2000. It is not what the factory installed or recommends.
2. I've no idea, if you've been setting level correct.
3. I'll assume, you saw the same good ECT (185-190f) when OD was failing to work properly.

IMHO drain and fills are not the best we can do. In fact, many times, they do more harm than good. Unless one knows, what every drop of ATF added over the years from mile/day one was. And that ATF, was with same factory ATF, every time and done on a regular basis

I look at this way: If I take a glass full of sewage water. Remove ~15% and top with water, stir, do again and again over time. I will not drink it. Is not the best water, is it, Nope!

What fluid was used before your ownership! Walmart cheapo, ford, PS fluid, motor oil perhaps! How many D&F in last 335k miles and 24 years, with what. Bottom line, you may have may have many variations of ATF or other chemicals even water within the mix.

The OM states: check AT fluid level at normal operating temp. But what most do not know or check, what that temp is. Level is check temp also depends on which ATF used.

FSM states to check ATF level at temp range of 158-176f. As I sated: I'd do full 12qt flush, with Mobil 1 MV FS ATF (98-02 100 series). I'd set level at ~160F after shift through all gear slowly, on level ground. Checking dipstick, while engine idling in P.
Clues, as to health. Some I see ATF temp come up quickly, that is not a good sign. The best AT, I see it difficult to even get up to operating temp.

Note: It's best to watch ATF #1 temp through tech stream (TS). If one doesn't have or can't read actual ATF temp through TS. We can use an IR temp gun. Holding gun IR beam, within 3 inch of center of pan. We get a close to actual ATF temp. Be mind of radiant heat from ground. I find in my shop with concert floor temp at ~78f, I get a read off pan, about 3f lower than actual ATF #1.

 

[JohnMed]

Thank you for your feedback.

Do you flush or "fluid exchange"? I'm certainly open to doing it the proper way. Which line do you disconnect to drain/flush? Do you refill through dipstick?

 

[2001LC]

Fill through dipstick. Letting transmission pump do the work.

Scored 00LX w/557,333 Km, Emerald! No start condition. needs a ton of work. No Problem!

Differentials and transfer case gear lube. I found the rear input of front differential weeping a bit. So I add some AT-205. After driving for minimum of 5 hours. I cleaned (de grease) the area, than drove some more. Leak did not return. While work on front diff replacing side seals, I do loose...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[JohnMed]

Fill through dipstick. Letting transmission pump do the work.

Scored 00LX w/557,333 Km, Emerald! No start condition. needs a ton of work. No Problem!

Differentials and transfer case gear lube. I found the rear input of front differential weeping a bit. So I add some AT-205. After driving for minimum of 5 hours. I cleaned (de grease) the area, than drove some more. Leak did not return. While work on front diff replacing side seals, I do loose...

forum.ih8mud.com

I've been reading your thread today over and over. Trying to build confidence, this is first time doing something like this. Really appreciate your write-up!

Any thoughts on Valvoline Max Life ATF? It is DEX-iii compatible.

 

[2001LC]

I use Mobil 1. Exxon Mobil built a joint plant with Toyota. Until just recently, the bottles of Toyota ATF, listed Exxon as manufacture. Toyota & Lexus Dealerships use Mobil 1, when upgrade requested or in case of AT running hot that they're trying to correct.

But if you like Valvoline, use it.

We just trying to make sure the AT fluid is not contaminated and level correct. As test, to see if it clears up your OD issue. It is, the intermittent nature of your issue, that gives me a little hope fluid may correct.

 

[JohnMed]

Update - I did full flush like your instructions. Easier than I thought! However, the issue popped up again on a test drive right now after about 20 miles on highway. Drove another 17 miles (37 total) before making it to destination point

At the moment OD stopped working, my OBD2 mph reading went from normal (matching speedometer) to reading 26mph. I was going 70mph (speedometer on dash showed 70mph) but OBD2 showed 26. When OD was still working, all mph readings were measuring the same.

I stopped, let car rest for an hour, and then drove home, no issues, overdrive functioned normally for all 37 miles. Dash speedometer and OBD2 mph were in sync as normal

Initial thoughts for next course of inspection is to check the transmission revolution speed sensors.

 

[2001LC]

That's interesting.

You can test or just replace the sensor. But sensors tend to be bad or good. The intermittency, may indicate a short.
What have road condition been when OD working and not: wet, dry or mix? Even raining days before or car wash. Anything to indicate moisture a factor.

I'd make sure to check all wires to and from A/T, also pulling each wire housing block and inspecting for corrosion or oxidation.

Were you monitoring any other A/T data points. Like A/F temp, shifting, ect.?

Have you run a scan, with Tech Stream?
Note: My OBDIImx devices doesn't always see DTC or require setting in AHC, ABS, A/T, etc. to see those. Whereas my blue driver just ask scan all. Both miss stuff. But my Tech Stream cable & software finds it all current pending and history, plus intactive testing functions.

 

[JohnMed]

That's interesting.

You can test or just replace the sensor. But sensors tend to be bad or good. The intermittency, may indicate a short.
What have road condition been when OD working and not: wet, dry or mix? Even raining days before or car wash. Anything to indicate moisture a factor.

I'd make sure to check all wires to and from A/T, also pulling each wire housing block and inspecting for corrosion or oxidation.

Were you monitoring any other A/T data points. Like A/F temp, shifting, ect.?

Have you run a scan, with Tech Stream?
Note: My OBDIImx devices doesn't always see DTC or require setting in AHC, ABS, A/T, etc. to see those. Whereas my blue driver just ask scan all. Both miss stuff. But my Tech Stream cable & software finds it all current pending and history, plus intactive testing functions.

As far as driving conditions go, it has all been pretty much dry, the exception was a couple months ago, went camping and did inadvertently hit a deep-ish puddle (7-8 inches) pretty hard. When I got home, I had to spray under car to get mud out, using the gentle shower mode. Although this was focused on the running boards, mud flaps, suspension, etc.

That was in April, I had driven about 300-400 miles since that point, BEFORE OD issue started.

Since OD issue, no water what so ever, no rain. All dry road conditions.

No CEL, I ran tech stream last night while parked and couldn't find any codes (perhaps I was looking in the wrong place). Have not run TS while driving. I would need a buddy to help with that.

 

[2001LC]

So chance are 90% not moisture related. Although I've seen issues, more from windshield leaks and also undercarriage wiring of AHC. Of oxidation from past water leaks into cabin or wire housing blocks. These can result in intermittent faults. I've also seen rodent chew a wire partial through, resulting in intermittent faults as vehicle bounce/vibration. Additionally loose or bad wire housing blocks.

Surprising nothing in TS. If you can, get a friend to ride along. If not, have TS with you. Pullover when it happens, run scan without turning key or engine off.

If any service done just before OD issue started. I'd start there.

 

[JohnMed]

So chance are 90% not moisture related. Although I've seen issues, more from windshield leaks and also undercarriage wiring of AHC. Of oxidation from past water leaks into cabin or wire housing blocks. These can result in intermittent faults. I've also seen rodent chew a wire partial through, resulting in intermittent faults as vehicle bounce/vibration. Additionally loose or bad wire housing blocks.

Surprising nothing in TS. If you can, get a friend to ride along. If not, have TS with you. Pullover when it happens, run scan without turning key or engine off.

If any service done just before OD issue started. I'd start there.

Is there a particular module in TS that I should be looking in? Where would I find Transmission temp reading?

 

[2001LC]

Is there a particular module in TS that I should be looking in? Where would I find Transmission temp reading?

I just run health scan. All DTC then show up. I'd need to go back and look, to see if AT has it own screen. If so, do look there.

 

[JohnMed]

Update: I drove again today, started normally and drove on highway for about 20 miles without issue @60-70mph in 4th. Then, almost like clockwork around 20 mile mark, LX shifted from 4th to 3rd and then stayed in 3rd. No CEL.

Then I drove back home (25 miles) and connected Tech Stream, I never turned the car off. No trouble codes. HOWEVER, I then went into the "active test" menu and chose "shift" or something like that where I control transmission shifts through Tech Stream screen. I did this process and when I got to the 3-4 shift (around 30-40mph) and clicked it, the active test turned off and a CEL appeared!

P0715 code was pulled from techstream at that point, this is the first time a code has been thrown during this whole time.

I did inspect wires to sensors before today's drive, and they all looked good, no obvious signs of any corrosion, fraying or loose connections.

At this point I think my next action step is to replace O/D Direct Clutch Speed Sensor, Part #89413-60020

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions are more than welcomed!

 

[SteveH]

@JohnMed - Excellent troubleshooting so far - congrats! Thanks for writing this up for the rest of us.

 

[Mike NXP]

Update: I drove again today, started normally and drove on highway for about 20 miles without issue @60-70mph in 4th. Then, almost like clockwork around 20 mile mark, LX shifted from 4th to 3rd and then stayed in 3rd. No CEL.

Then I drove back home (25 miles) and connected Tech Stream, I never turned the car off. No trouble codes. HOWEVER, I then went into the "active test" menu and chose "shift" or something like that where I control transmission shifts through Tech Stream screen. I did this process and when I got to the 3-4 shift (around 30-40mph) and clicked it, the active test turned off and a CEL appeared!

P0715 code was pulled from techstream at that point, this is the first time a code has been thrown during this whole time.

I did inspect wires to sensors before today's drive, and they all looked good, no obvious signs of any corrosion, fraying or loose connections.

At this point I think my next action step is to replace O/D Direct Clutch Speed Sensor, Part #89413-60020

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions are more than welcomed!

I'm not much help here other than it seems like the biggest clue you gave was when you noticed the problem and then saw your OBD2 speed readout was not accurate. Seems like you're on the right track.

 

[2001LC]

Update: I drove again today, started normally and drove on highway for about 20 miles without issue @60-70mph in 4th. Then, almost like clockwork around 20 mile mark, LX shifted from 4th to 3rd and then stayed in 3rd. No CEL.

Then I drove back home (25 miles) and connected Tech Stream, I never turned the car off. No trouble codes. HOWEVER, I then went into the "active test" menu and chose "shift" or something like that where I control transmission shifts through Tech Stream screen. I did this process and when I got to the 3-4 shift (around 30-40mph) and clicked it, the active test turned off and a CEL appeared!

P0715 code was pulled from techstream at that point, this is the first time a code has been thrown during this whole time.

I did inspect wires to sensors before today's drive, and they all looked good, no obvious signs of any corrosion, fraying or loose connections.

At this point I think my next action step is to replace O/D Direct Clutch Speed Sensor, Part #89413-60020

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions are more than welcomed!

That's what I do (sensor), at this point. But I would have done more than just look at wires. So if sensor doesn't do the trick. Revisit the wires, wire housing blocks, etc., A/T back to CPU.