Toyo OpenCountry AT3 Experience?

[ZisMe]

Hey All. Was close to pulling the trigger on a set of Falken Wildpeak AT3s (285/65 r18) to replace the stock tires on my 2020 LC when i realized i hadnt really considered the new Toyos. Curious if anyone has mounted a set of these yet and what their experience has been? I like everything ive read about the Falkens, but theyre a really heavy tire. May go with the Toyos if performance is comparable given their lighter weight. Thanks in advance.

 

[TeCKis300]

I'm on the fence between these two tires as well. I've posted in mixed threads so I'll repost here to consolidate. They excel in many of the same ways yet have slight advantages in certain traits. Both top of the class in AT tire category. Hope you'll find this info useful. I'm interested in feedback from those that have rode them on the 200-series as well.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/tire-recommendation.1179760/post-13239670

Thanks @edwardg for sharing your thoughts. The character of the AT3s are starting to become more clear as there's more commentary. It's a compelling tire and I'm strongly considering them for my next set. I'm pretty critical of tires, and while they all excel at different things, strong NVH qualities and solid performance all around without any significant gaps are my priorities.

Separately...

I found some nuggets of gold from Joe Bacal that was a development tester for the AT3s. He was able to critically bench them among the competitive set including KO2s and AT3Ws, so I read his thoughts with high accord. He notes the Falkens "did amazing in almost all categories", "outperforming the AT3 in more categories". For a Toyo hired engineer to say that is strong praise. Yet I'm still strongly considering the AT3s as they are incrementally quieter on the highway with great snow performance for ski trips. I'm watching this resource closely for any new commentary.

Interestingly, he was on the Toyota FJ development team and campaigned the 200-series in several off-road races including Baja. Took OE tires through the Baja 1000 several times?! Do I need more tire than this man??

From that data, along with others, this is my interpretation for various traits where I have in info. I'm only capturing my own research here to inform my purchase so take this with a grain of salt.

1) Dry handling - Equal AT3 and AT3W, KO2
2) Steering Feel - AT3W, AT3, KO2
3) Ride comfort - AT3W, AT3, KO2
4) Noise - AT3, AT3W, KO2
5) Snow - AT3, AT3W, KO2
6) Wet - Equal AT3 and AT3W, KO2
7) Wet rock - AT3, AT3W, KO2
8) Wet marsh - AT3W, AT3

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/help-needed-with-a-t-tire-decision.1095935/post-13229274

Casually researching tires as I may upsize to 35x12.5s before the end of the year.

Came across these nuggets. Always great to hear from insiders. Joe Bacal particularly as he was a development test driver for the just released Toyo AT3s. Found this in his comments.

Puts me right back between the ATW3s and AT3s. The Falken having an advantage in ride comfort while maintaining an edge in steering feel really speaks to me. If the Toyos can edge it out on noise, that may sway me back.

 

[04UZJ100]

After I heard Toyo didn’t honor their satisfaction guarantee for another member who purchased them from Discount Tire, I’ll likely pass.

Will do more research on the Falkens as I have not heard a bad thing about them.

 

[NCMTNS]

I’ve got 5000 miles on mine. Great tire. OP let me know if you need more info.

 

[Sean Caldwell]

I am in the process of putting together a build out on my wife's 2018 200 series LC, I wouldn't use any other tire then the Toyo. I've run a couple sets of the R/T on my full size GM diesel and love them, no noise, great traction all around. previous to these i had the Toyo AT3 and they were great as well but didn't last long on the diesel with the amount of torque/ HP and my heavy foot. I'll be putting them on the LC for sure though as they were a great all around tire that had exceptional traction. Just remember with these tires and any larger tire to ask your dealer to double inflate when mounting, if you get a heavy one weight wise on the balance machine have them break the bead and turn the tire on the rim 180 deg's (some shops call this tire indexing) and last but not least, rotate every oil change. I personally use what's called a modified X for rotation of my tires but i'm sure everyone has their own opinion on this. Modified X is back drive wheels each come straight forward and the non drive fronts get crossed as they go back RF-LR, LF-RR.

 

[PDoyle]

Are the Wildpeaks a good tire in water? I see some members posted negative results. Maybe add another tire in the mix.
Anyone look into Bridgestone Revo 3's yet?
The Revo 2's were a great all around tire.

 

[bloc]

They are the older generation but I've been very happy with my AT2's in P-metric flavor. I did tear one sidewall but based on the shape of the rock and how hard I hit it I don't think an E-rated LT tire would have survived it.

 

[bencallaway]

I've got em on my 570 and have been happy so far but not enough data yet to give a valuable analysis.

 

[TeCKis300]

I am in the process of putting together a build out on my wife's 2018 200 series LC, I wouldn't use any other tire then the Toyo. I've run a couple sets of the R/T on my full size GM diesel and love them, no noise, great traction all around. previous to these i had the Toyo AT3 and they were great as well but didn't last long on the diesel with the amount of torque/ HP and my heavy foot. I'll be putting them on the LC for sure though as they were a great all around tire that had exceptional traction. Just remember with these tires and any larger tire to ask your dealer to double inflate when mounting, if you get a heavy one weight wise on the balance machine have them break the bead and turn the tire on the rim 180 deg's (some shops call this tire indexing) and last but not least, rotate every oil change. I personally use what's called a modified X for rotation of my tires but i'm sure everyone has their own opinion on this. Modified X is back drive wheels each come straight forward and the non drive fronts get crossed as they go back RF-LR, LF-RR.

Curious as the AT3s literally only came out few months ago. Are you sure the comments are not for the previous AT2s that had been out for over a decade? The character and performance between the previous AT2 and AT3s have changed dramatically.

Are the Wildpeaks a good tire in water? I see some members posted negative results. Maybe add another tire in the mix.
Anyone look into Bridgestone Revo 3's yet?
The Revo 2's were a great all around tire.

Revos are on the mild end of the AT spectrum, AT3 and AT3W on the aggressive end. Potentially with just as good NVH behaviors with newer technology. Revo 2s have been out for a long while and may not have the tech to go against this new bread. Wildpeaks are noted for excellence in water, which is why they're named and marketed as AT3W, 3W for wear, winter, wet. The link I posted from a professional tire tested proved their mettle in wet handling and braking. AT3s are great for water and have improved from the AT2s tremendously.

 

[Madtiger]

One thing that is often overlooked is how HEAVY the Falken tires are due to them using cheap a$$ steel plies (instead of high-tensile steel plies that everyone else uses). In 285/65/18 LT-E, it weighs a whopping 64.2 lbs per Falken website!! Revs / mile = 642.

Toyo AT3 in that size LT-E weighs 55 lbs (per Toyo website). Revs / mile = 638.

BFG KO2, which is a heavy duty off-road tire with thick 3-ply sidewall, weighs 57 lbs (per BFG & TireRack). Revs / mile = 639.

That is A LOT of unsprung weight if you get Falkens! And Falken runs small for its stated size...see Revs / Mile. So, you get a SMALLER tire that weighs a ton!

(I just finished 8 hour drive yesterday on my LC with stock suspension and stock sized KO2 [285/60/18 LT-D]...i have 17k miles on KO2...rode beautifully and quiet on the highway thru dry and rain conditions.)

So, between the two, unless Toyo has some catastrophic defective design, i would get AT3 over Falken by a mile!! AT3 is a taller tire AND weighs 9 lbs less of unsprung weight per tire.

 

[TeCKis300]

@NCMTNS and @bencallaway , how's the tire noise on the freeway?

Professional tire tester Joe Bacal noted a slight noise advantage to the AT3s over the AT3Ws. Some end user reviews have noted odd reverberations or harmonics at higher freeway speeds? NVH is an important quality to me.

The AT3Ws I have now, 30k miles in, are still pretty good with a hushed and unobtrusive character much like distant low level wind noise.

I'm still split between these top tires in the competitive set. I am fully satisfied and really really enjoy my AT3Ws, but would like to upsize. Enough that I'm completely happy to purchase the same tire again. Which is odd as I'm usually a tire junkie and flippant to try the competitive set.

The AT3Ws have noted slight advantages by Joe in ride comfort and steering sharpness, which are also important to me. This is where I waver against the slight noise advantage.

Comment on the AT3Ws being heavy, this is a common knock against this tire. Sure, it's a quality to optimize and if a tire can perform the same with less weight, is an advantage. It's also worthwhile to note where the weight lies - particularly, the AT3Ws have the deepest treads in the competitive set which is about 10-15% more depth than the AT3s. Rubber is heavy and can be an advantage long term. My AT3Ws at 30k miles look practically new to the untrained eye as it still has huge tread depth.

 

[TeCKis300]

One thing that is often overlooked is how HEAVY the Falken tires are due to them using cheap a$$ steel plies (instead of high-tensile steel plies that everyone else uses). In 285/65/18 LT-E, it weighs a whopping 64.2 lbs per Falken website!! Revs / mile = 642.

Toyo AT3 in that size LT-E weighs 55 lbs (per Toyo website). Revs / mile = 638.

BFG KO2, which is a heavy duty off-road tire with thick 3-ply sidewall, weighs 57 lbs (per BFG & TireRack). Revs / mile = 639.

That is A LOT of unsprung weight if you get Falkens! And Falken runs small for its stated size...see Revs / Mile. So, you get a SMALLER tire that weighs a ton!

(I just finished 8 hour drive yesterday on my LC with stock suspension and stock sized KO2 [285/60/18 LT-D]...i have 17k miles on KO2...rode beautifully and quiet on the highway thru dry and rain conditions.)

So, between the two, unless Toyo has some catastrophic defective design, i would get AT3 over Falken by a mile!! AT3 is a taller tire AND weighs 9 lbs less of unsprung weight per tire.

Curious comments as always.

Nevermind that a trained tire tester that benched 7 tires in the AT tire class, rated the Falken's as a top choice, winning in more categories than any other tire. Results can matter more than how it is done.

KO2s are the ones that typically run small across the board. If you think KO2s ride well and are quiet, you should open your eyes as to what the competitive set offers. It's time for KO3s.

 

[Madtiger]

Curious comments as always.

KO2s are the ones that typically run small across the board. If you think KO2s ride well and are quiet, you should open your eyes as to what the competitive set offers. It's time for KO3s.

Actually, i have used other tires on previous off-road vehicles. I always come back to KO2s. I prized robustness and overall competence.

Not sure about other sizes, but at 285/65/18, i can assure you that Falkens run small...significantly smaller than the two mentioned above. And it weighs a ton more!!

See this post of 265/60/18 on a GX: LT285/65/18 + 18” stock rims and KDSS

Look at how small Falkens is!

 

[bloc]

It's time for KO3s.

It really is, but they sell so damn many KO2s there is little incentive to spend the money developing something better.

 

[Madtiger]

Comment on the AT3Ws being heavy, this is a common knock against this tire. Sure, it's a quality to optimize and if a tire can perform the same with less weight, is an advantage. It's also worthwhile to note where the weight lies - particularly, the AT3Ws have the deepest treads in the competitive set which is about 10-15% more depth than the AT3s. Rubber is heavy and can be an advantage long term. My AT3Ws at 30k miles look practically new to the untrained eye as it still has huge tread depth.

It may have deepest tread but it's tread life is NOT better than others. So, what is the point of deep tread if warranty and life are not any better?? So, are they (Falken) doing cost cutting on the rubber compound too???

 

[Madtiger]

It really is, but they sell so damn many KO2s there is little incentive to spend the money developing something better.

There is no incentive...because for an off-road bruiser, it hangs in there with P-metric tires on-road: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=249

There is simply not a better tire (IMO) if you factor in off-road robustness/traction and on-road manners.

 

[TeCKis300]

It may have deepest tread but it's tread life is NOT better than others. So, what is the point of deep tread if warranty and life are not any better?? So, are they (Falken) doing cost cutting on the rubber compound too???

Tread depth impacts tire life, but also other qualities too throughout the life of the tire. I put much more stock in this than you might.

Mad, why don't you put together your own tire thread. Then you can preach all you'd like about your KO2s, which has been a benchmark in the class. It probably single handedly pushed the competitive set to develop such great tires, some that need to sell on merit rather than name. Glad to see Toyo's back in the game.

This thread is about the AT3 and AT3Ws.

 

[Madtiger]

Mad, why don't you put together your own tire thread. Then you can preach all you'd like about your KO2s, which has been a benchmark in the class. It probably single handedly pushed the competitive set to develop such great tires, some that need to sell on merit rather than name. Glad to see Toyo's back in the game.

This thread is about the AT3 and AT3Ws.

You're right...i was answering regarding KO2. B/w the two, as I noted above, AT3 by a long shot.

 

[NCMTNS]

@NCMTNS and @bencallaway , how's the tire noise on the freeway?

Professional tire tester Joe Bacal noted a slight noise advantage to the AT3s over the AT3Ws. Some end user reviews have noted odd reverberations or harmonics at higher freeway speeds? NVH is an important quality to me.

The AT3Ws I have now, 30k miles in, are still pretty good with a hushed and unobtrusive character much like distant low level wind noise.

I'm still split between these top tires in the competitive set. I am fully satisfied and really really enjoy my AT3Ws, but would like to upsize. Enough that I'm completely happy to purchase the same tire again. Which is odd as I'm usually a tire junkie and flippant to try the competitive set.

The AT3Ws have noted advantages by Joe in ride comfort and steering sharpness, which are also important to me. Perhaps more so than a slight noise advantage?

Comment on the AT3Ws being heavy, this is a common knock against this tire. Sure, it's a quality to optimize and if a tire can perform the same with less weight, is an advantage. It's also worthwhile to note where the weight lies - particularly, the AT3Ws have the deepest treads in the competitive set which is about 10-15% more depth than the AT3s. Rubber is heavy and can be an advantage long term. My AT3Ws at 30k miles look practically new to the untrained eye as it still has huge tread depth.

Full disclosure I am running P285/70/R17 117T (SL rated) tire on a stock suspension with no other mods (as of today). I went this route because did not see the need for C or E rating based on my current needs. I drive 85-90% of the time on highway and the other times on hunting land trails and utility roads. My previous tire was the Nitto Trail Grappler and the noise of these are the same, maybe even a little quieter at higher speeds. I have been very happy with them. One of the other reasons I chose these was the wet traction capabilities. Since it is a new tire I was going out on a limb but based this choice on the design changes they did over previous tire. As of today I would buy them again and may even go up in load rating depending on needs.

 

[Moby]

Anyone look into Bridgestone Revo 3's yet?
The Revo 2's were a great all around tire.

It's very likely I'll end up with Revo 3s. In a 285/65R18 they are only 49lbs. Everyone optimizes for different things. I need a light AT tire that has great highway, wet performance and a little snow (will probably still run winter tires), with a little more robustness than a p metric and enough tread for mild to moderate fire roads. Will they be as robust/capable as Falkens, Toyos, Coopers or Nittos? Probably not. If Nittos weren't so dang heavy I'd buy them in a min having loved Terra Grapplers on my FJ-62. Conditions and needs are individual but I will never buy BFG ATs again. If it even looked like it might rain the back tires would break loose on the street... I'm sure they are great in other parts of the country.