prwillard2
SILVER Star
I ran mine for nearly 4 years and 45k miles.
They've still got 9/32 of tread left.
They'd be good for another 10-15k miles, but changed them because I got Cooper's on closeout and was headed to Tahoe.
Toyo OpenCountry AT3 Experience? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ZisMe
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They've still got 9/32 of tread left.
They'd be good for another 10-15k miles, but changed them because I got Cooper's on closeout and was headed to Tahoe.
I've been a pretty big proponent of the Toyo AT3s. Exceedingly excellent all around tires. Pretty incredible just how good modern mixed use all-terrain tires can be after 40k miles on them. In its time, it outclassed the KO2s from information I was able to dig through with bench tests and commentary by professional users and testers. It shouldn't be a surprise honestly as the AT3s came out almost 10 years after the KO2. The AT3s are factory tires on many notable trims like current Lexus Overtrail models.
Now that KO3s are out several years after the introduction of AT3s, I would give those a serious look. Tire manufacturers are always benchmarking each other to make sure they're products are competitive. Especially BFGs that hold themselves to a high benchmark standard. Might be interesting to know that BFG is owned by Michelin, a brand known to be second to none.
I don't get the preoccupation with tire weight. IMO, tires are the most critical component and an area I'm willing to carry more weight on when they deliver more performance.
Now that KO3s are out several years after the introduction of AT3s, I would give those a serious look. Tire manufacturers are always benchmarking each other to make sure they're products are competitive. Especially BFGs that hold themselves to a high benchmark standard. Might be interesting to know that BFG is owned by Michelin, a brand known to be second to none.
I don't get the preoccupation with tire weight. IMO, tires are the most critical component and an area I'm willing to carry more weight on when they deliver more performance.
bloc
SILVER Star
I looked at how I was actually using my vehicle and realized the kings and ATs just didn’t make sense anymore.
I do very little off-roading near home. 95% of my off-pavement time is in Colorado, 900 miles away. On top of that, mountain biking is an increasing focus of those trips, with trails themselves a smaller goal. Having rolled an 80 up there years ago was a factor as well, taking away some of my appetite for hard trails.
So stepping back and being objective about things, fuel mileage, passing power, road worthiness, and frankly comfort for all of those road miles mattered more than it had in the past, and new take-off suspension and stock sized tires plus the OE spacer is really hard to beat given those priorities. (And sliders and skids.) These rigs are so capable in stock form that if I can’t get there with this setup I probably shouldn’t be going anyway, especially solo.
My experience with michelins on a half dozen other vehicles was so good that I felt the need to give these a shot. I’m extremely happy with them.
If I needed more open tread I’d strongly consider the XL construction AT3 in stock size, based on how the 285/70R17s treated me. Yes the KO3s are worth looking at as competition, but I’m not at all interested in LT construction and more specifically the resulting tire pressure requirements on stock dampers.
I worry that you are right in that I shouldn’t care about weight as much as I do, but when I switched to the KO2’s, I felt that the entire vehicle was more sluggish. That was from 45lb Blizzaks to 58lb KO2’s, so it was a hefty increase.
It also bothered me how much it limited my range. Previously I could drive from Houston to Amarillo without filling up… with the KO2’s, I had to fill up about 90% of the way there.
Yes…. First world problem, but it bugs me all the same.
But still, I hate the thought of moving to a yet heavier tire with the KO3.
Thank you for taking the time to write all that. It is helpful.
And you make me think. My use isn’t so off from your usage. 95% on-road with 5% mild off-roading.
I like the description I saw somebody use in this forum: “approach vehicle.” My LC is an approach vehicle for me to get to trailheads for hiking.
That said, I have often enough taken the wrong turn and ended up down a road where I was pretty happy to have something more beefy than a road-oriented tire. Where perhaps I would have been fine with the road-tires, but very much enjoyed having one less worry as I picked my way out.
For me, I’ll give up some comfort for 95% of my driving if it means increased peace-of-mind in the 5% times.
Obviously this contrasts with my previous post about why I care about the weight of the tires.
So I guess, what I’m saying is that I want something in between the KO2 and Road tires.
So I appreciate your input on the AT3’s. Likely I will give them a try.
One more thing:
One thing I see discussed here a lot that is lower on my list of interests in tires is longevity. If a tire lasts 60K miles or 40K is the same to me. Not to say that I want to throw money at tires, but the difference between buying new tires every 3 year vs every 4 years isn’t big enough for it to weigh heavily in my ability to over-think something.
Seems like you should be shopping for a P Metric or ISO metric XL tire in an AT style as Bloc suggested. They don’t look as cool as full LT and floatation tires, but sounds like it fits your use case.
I think the thing that often happens is bucketing so many negative qualities of a tire into "weight". It's a misnomer that deserves to be unpacked.
Weight is a factor, but what so many describe is often more due to tire diameter and lost gearing and braking leverage. Mileage is more a function of rolling resistance and lost aero. Lost aero can also be from tire lift/suspension lift/aggressive offsets.
KO2s were also notorious for undersizing tires and coming with less tread depth.
These details are where we can inform better tire choices because not all LTs, Load Range, AT tire models, even down to tire size fitment on rims results in the same thing to be lumped into weight as the major contributing negative factor.
275s in particular are notorious for resulting in poor ride qualities because of pressure requirements and sidewall geometry factors.
I happen to be cruising down the freeway at on a road trip right now as my wife drives. 85mph. 70lbs LT-E tires. Rides like butter.
So much this. More of us should drive Defenders.
I get that many want that little bit more aggressive A/T looking tire. Tire manufactures seem to have been responding and I see more choices within the A/T category where they have the traditional full A/T tire model, but also a milder version with better NVH, rolling resistance, and highway manners.
Falken Rubitrek and Wildpeak A/T Trail, versus AT4Ws
BFG Trail Terrain versus KO3
Nitto Terra Grapplers 3 versus Recon Grapplers
Toyo OC ATIII EV vs AT III.
This last one could be a pretty interesting opportunity with hugely better rolling resistance. They're also meant for really heavy EVs, and the 200-series is almost as heavy. They come in limited sizes but has the somewhat common 275/65R18, 275/65R18, and even an awesome 305/70R18 (~35x12)
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bloc
SILVER Star
See that’s the thing.. the one condition a more open-tread AT could perform better than these is in sticky mud, and I generally avoid that as much as possible. Now perhaps that falls into the 5% category…
Maybe deep snow too, now that I think about it
But yeah “approach” vehicle is what I couldn’t come up with in my post. Perfect description. Whether it’s mountain biking, hiking, setting up for drone photography, getting to the dozen or so great camp sites I know in the San Juans.. so far the LTXs have been fantastic at that, and all the road miles. OC AT3s would probably be as well, with a bit of added noise.
bloc
SILVER Star
Yep. If there’s one silver lining in all the broverlanders we see everywhere it’s that there is now a decent market for “in-between” tires that just wouldn’t have been an option a decade ago. Plus I guess improving technology with regard to tire construction and materials.
And the appearance thing is what I didn’t mention up there.. Over time I have grown (as a person?) to just not care how “cool” my 200 looks. Function is far above form at this point. Clear opening to shuffle priorities around.. as said I’m very happy with how things have evolved.
The tires made for EV use are interesting.
In comparing the Toyo Open Country A/T III standard vs the EV model, the EV model is cheaper, lighter and is listed to have “low rolling resistance technology” while the standard doesn’t mention having low rolling resistance.
So what does it give up?
I do see that it’s SL rated instead of the E that the non-EV tire is rated to.
But if SL is rated to 2756lbs and my rig weighs 6780 empty, do I care?
Or does this mean if I ever get cross-balanced on just two tires, I’m immediately in trouble as they burst?
(This last question is mostly meant facetiously, but I guess there is a real possibility of having all the weight on just two tires so maybe it’s a real worry?)
And what about sidewall? Does SL necessarily mean thinner sidewalls? The Toyo page says SL= Standard load and E = 10ply rating. But this is in reference to Load ID - not impact resistance.
Seems like you are comparing apples and oranges as far as the EV to non EV tires. The EV comes in both ISO Metric and LT forms. The LT models are heavier. The ATIII (both regular and EV flavors) in it's ISO/P Metric forms (SL) are a lighter duty tire with less tread and less sidewall dressing. The ATIII EV and the ATIII in LT275/70R18 BSW both weigh the same 53lbs.
All that to say, i have no idea what the difference between the EV and non EV models are. The literature says "AeroWing sidewall lug design" and "EV Optimized Tread Design & Compound". The only extra bullet point for the EV Optimized compared to the regular tire is "reduce rolling resistance and long treadware life".
Ah! Thank you! I was, indeed, misreading it and now see that the two do weigh the same.
Edit: though I think only the EV version comes in both SL and E Load ID in size 275/70r18.
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Nevermind. Looks like there isn't an SL size like you mentioned.
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A big factor in rolling resistance comes down to the rubber compound. It's likely the EV variant is using a low-hysteresis high silica rubber compound, meaning a material that deflects quickly so it doesn't sap energy as the tire goes round and round. Aggressive sidewall lugs don't move through air efficiently and represent a source of drag at high speeds so the sidewall lugs are likely lower profile.
I'm surprised they were able to get such a bump in rolling resistance without impacting other performance factors (at least significantly) to rate it equivalent to the normal variant.
Could be a win win if I could only get them in a size I want.
I have Toyo AT3 on my 21 TRD Tundra going on 40k now and they have been my all time favorite tire. Snow, rain, mud, and highway all good. My LX has KO3s and I really like them as well having owned several sets of KO2s over the years. I got my KO3s just because I could not find the right size Toyo at the time. I really like the KO3s and time will tell, but I LOVE the Open Country AT3 and will buy again. I also had the OC ATIII on my old 100 LC for a long time with zero issues. Just for reference- Open Country on Tundra are 295/70/18 and LX has 285/70/17.
